Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[TypeOU]

Depends on the scaling you use. Shiki could blitz

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Depends on the scaling you use. Shiki could blitz

but servants have FTL reaction/combat speed

 

[Violatas]

yes. With a continuous heat barrier. Shiki and Arc couldn't react to it, forget dodge it, so I sure as hell am not believing that mid-tier characters can.

With a continuous heat barrier

That's also inaccurate. In the manga, Akiha intercepts the laser as its heading towards Toho and Arcueid.
It seems you're completely ignoring that required in tandem movement for her to do. The heat from her Vermillion form did bend the laser, but we see her still end up in front of the in the first place after bum rushing in the Tohno mansion to do so. Do you think she just happened to be standing there???

Also, there's literally no massive gap between 50% Arcueid and "mid" tier Melty characters, much less 30% which is also FTL on this site because of Servant speeds now being FTL, which back scales to Melty.

Always is

You've yet to prove anything contradictory in using the calc my guy. In tandem movement already from official manga, FTL Servants already scaling to even lower Arcueid percentages, and the gameplay not going against anything says otherwise.

Literally none of those examples you've tossed out aren't nearly as backed as the Mech Hisui calc lore-wise

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Question after what nasu said regarding crossovers. Assuming the story is finished, will the company allow crossovers once it’s done?

 

[TypeOU]

That's also inaccurate. In the manga, Akiha intercepts the laser as its heading towards Toho and Arcueid.
It seems you're completely ignoring that required in tandem movement for her to do. The heat from her Vermillion form did bend the laser, but we see her still end up in front of the in the first place after bum rushing in the Tohno mansion to do so. Do you think she just happened to be standing there???

Also, there's literally no massive gap between 50% Arcueid and "mid" tier Melty characters, much less 30% which is also FTL on this site because of Servant speeds now being FTL, which back scales to Melty.

What the hell is 50% Arcueid. 30% Arcueid Stomped the likes of Elesia with no difficulty, who is at least as strong as Ciel. She is also said to be able to stomp average servants, while Tsukiverse top tiers like BA members and Kouma were only said to be on par with them. This is the same Kouma who is comparable if not superior to Akiha

You've yet to prove anything contradictory in using the calc my guy. In tandem movement already from official manga, FTL Servants already scaling to even lower Arcueid percentages, and the gameplay not going against anything says otherwise.

kek

and there would be no point in deflecting it if they could dodge it to begin with. She got in the way before the beam reached them, doesn't mean she started moving before the beam was hsot.

 

[Violatas]

What the hell is 50% Arcueid. 30% Arcueid Stomped the likes of Elesia with no difficulty, who is at least as strong as Ciel. She is also said to be able to stomp average servants, while Tsukiverse top tiers like BA members and Kouma were only said to be on par with them. This is the same Kouma who is comparable if not superior to Akiha

kek

and there would be no point in deflecting it if they could dodge it to begin with. She got in the way before the beam reached them, doesn't mean she started moving before the beam was hsot.

Stomped

Tohno and Sion both scale to 30% Arcueid, as we see them both hold their own against Wallachia drawing out that much power. And Ciel blitzed stomped Sion's base. Tohno's own profile even says he's beaten people comparable to 100% Arcueid in fact (namely Nero Chaos and full Inverted Akiha).

What is 50%

The strength Arcueid is at during Melty? Thought this was common knowledge.

Doesn't mean she got in the way before the beam was shot.

So you're saying she moved after it was shot, which yes, requires in tandem movement.

Also a literal Tatari of Nanaya beats Kouma. As for Akiha, her profile already says the justifications for her scaling to 50% Arc and higher

Kek

 

[LehenDuo]

What the hell is 50% Arcueid. 30% Arcueid Stomped the likes of Elesia with no difficulty, who is at least as strong as Ciel. She is also said to be able to stomp average servants, while Tsukiverse top tiers like BA members and Kouma were only said to be on par with them. This is the same Kouma who is comparable if not superior to Akiha

kek

and there would be no point in deflecting it if they could dodge it to begin with. She got in the way before the beam reached them, doesn't mean she started moving before the beam was hsot.

There's also Galgalim Calvaria, that is a mirror like thing that uses the light of sun as magecraft, IIRC Arcueid had no chance of dodging it even from the stratosphere.

 

[Violatas]

There's also Galgalim Calvaria, that is a mirror like thing that uses the light of sun as magecraft, IIRC Arcueid had no chance of dodging it even from the stratosphere.

Remake. Not OG. Remakes don't have profiles here (yet).

 

[LehenDuo]

The strength Arcueid is at during Melty? Thought this was common knowledge.

Quote? Because Arcueid supressing the Impulse has always been said to use 70% of her "power" to do it, leaving her with 30%. (Pre-World's backing)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Speaking of arcueid, is her servant form aka fgo too OP/broken

 

[LehenDuo]

Speaking of arcueid, is her servant form aka fgo too OP/broken

Yes, but not Archetype: Earth true body OP level
The Saint Graph can't mimic her original World Egg basis power.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Yes, but not Archetype: Earth true body OP level

i meant in terms of gameplay

 

[LehenDuo]

i meant in terms of gameplay

Oh, if you grail her and more importantly NP2, she is a beast of a farmer.
Double Koyanskaya set-ups couldn't have asked for a better match

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Oh, if you grail her and more importantly NP2, she is a beast of a farmer.
Double Koyanskaya set-ups couldn't have asked for a better match

i already got jalter, isn’t she one of the best in terms of gameplay (especially with support merlin?)

 

[Ubdon]

i already got jalter, isn’t she one of the best in terms of gameplay (especially with support merlin?)

this team good against bosses, minewhile arc more about 3turn farming

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

this team good against bosses, minewhile arc more about 3turn farming

well I thought having jalter means it’s a game breaker

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/GameBreaker/FateGrandOrder

tv tropes isn’t necessarily accurate but they did say jalter is one of the games game breakers

 

[LehenDuo]

Jalter has the highest base attack of the game, can crit and has 30 stars on her NP, she is definitely a top tier servant, but she is single-target, so farming isn't her forte.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Jalter has the highest base attack of the game, can crit and has 30 stars on her NP, she is definitely a top tier servant, but she is single-target, so farming isn't her forte.

so tv tropes correct?

 

[LehenDuo]

I wouldn't say game breaking, we have Castoria and (Ibuki Summer now) for that, but she's an S-rank/A+-rank single target DPS.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I wouldn't say game breaking, we have Castoria and (Ibuki Summer now) for that, but she's an S-rank/A+-rank single target DPS.

yeah i already have a game breaker because of her.

though I don’t know why tv tropes put merlin in buster since he’s QAAAB

 

[TypeOU]

Tohno and Sion both scale to 30% Arcueid, as we see them both hold their own against Wallachia drawing out that much power. And Ciel blitzed stomped Sion's base. Tohno's own profile even says he's beaten people comparable to 100% Arcueid in fact (namely Nero Chaos and full Inverted Akiha).

Sion and Shiki are both wildly inconsistent (one due to prep time wanking+vampirism and the other due to being built different)

The strength Arcueid is at during Melty? Thought this was common knowledge.

it's not.

So you're saying she moved after it was shot, which yes, requires in tandem movement.

I'm saying she moved before.

Also a literal Tatari of Nanaya beats Kouma. As for Akiha, her profile already says the justifications for her scaling to 50% Arc and higher

Yes. And nanaya (and mb tohno) is still built different and is far faster than any tsukihime character.

 

[TypeOU]

Also how convenient of you to ignore Arcueid blatant statement that she is NOT FTL

 

[Violatas]

Sion and Shiki are both wildly inconsistent (one due to prep time wanking+vampirism and the other due to being built different)

it's not.

I'm saying she moved before.

Yes. And nanaya (and mb tohno) is still built different and is far faster than any tsukihime character.

First panel is Mech Hisui firing the laser

Second we literally see a panel of Akiha running towards the location

Third, she's Infront. Literal in tandem movement. Also no, she wasn't already there like you claim. Nothing in the previous panels indicate this.

Sion and Shiki are both wildly inconsistent (one due to prep time wanking+vampirism and the other due to being built different)

Nothing inconsistent about Sion matching Wallachia??? Heck, she even beats Dust of Osiris. During the fight against Wallachia, it wasn't even "prep".

Built different

I can't tell if that's supposed to be a serious rebuttal or not. Also if you think he's built different (which yeah he's certainly high tier), why is it inconsistent???


You're also forgetting that Ciel, who's been compared to Servants, is also FTL now because again, FTL Servants was recently accepted. That also just back scales to alot of Melty characters.

Ignoring.

Dang. Now I know you really didn't read the blog

FTL Melty Blood calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

I bring this up in the thread linked at the end. The statement is contradicted immediately by Akiha intercepting the laser, FTL now scaling to much lower percentages for Arcueid since FTL F/SN is now accepted, and the in tandem movement from the games justifying it. You don't like it, make a CRT removing FTL Servants if you don't want Arcueid to be FTL at all. It seems you're the one ignoring that's another reason the cast are now FTL.

 

[Violatas]

Quote? Because Arcueid supressing the Impulse has always been said to use 70% of her "power" to do it, leaving her with 30%. (Pre-World's backing)

Getting ready for work now but I'll get back to ya.
Funny convo though since you can literally just check the Melty profiles on this site to see characters scales to 50% of her power and have been for years (Akiha and Tohno in fact).
But yeah I'll get back to ya

 

[Violatas]

Bumping this rq since I'm curious if others think this was in tandem movement or not

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Found out from someone on the fgo wiki that yan Qing was famous for his crossbow and look how TM did to him.

My response

“Well FGO doesn't care about being 100% historical accurate, it's about writing a good story, they don't have to be 100% accurate As long as it's a good story then it's fine.”
“I mean Fate is about having attila being an outer space being, Thomas edison having a lion head, Gilgamesh being a blonde dude instead of having a beard, Greek gods being machines, and etc. So don't expect too much from them.”

 

[LehenDuo]

Found out from someone on the fgo wiki that yan Qing was famous for his crossbow and look how TM did to him.

My response

“Well FGO doesn't care about being 100% historical accurate, it's about writing a good story, they don't have to be 100% accurate As long as it's a good story then it's fine.”
“I mean Fate is about having attila being an outer space being, Thomas edison having a lion head, Gilgamesh being a blonde dude instead of having a beard, Greek gods being machines, and etc. So don't expect too much from them.”

Nasuverse in general cares much more about the "concept" of the thing than to the historical depiction and form that a concept took in a specific culture. Tamamo-no-Mae story shows this perfectly, in my opinion. In line with what we consider to be modern occultism, Nasuverse is highly syncretic.

That, and Nasu just likes to "go against" the flow, so to say. Even when he does ridiculous things as making Arthur a female, this change gains a whole new life by the narration and backstory he gives it.

Then, there's Nasu just being ridiculous. Like Twelve Machine Gods. But they are still ******* awesome, so who cares?

And Gilgamesh being blonde is actually correct, technically. Or, at least, it has a reasoning, given he's 2/3 God, and the Gods of Sumer/Babylonia "are blonde"(Annunaki) in some modern reinterpretations. Ishtar being black haired is the weird one, and is probably the influence of Rin's body.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

There's also Galgalim Calvaria, that is a mirror like thing that uses the light of sun as magecraft, IIRC Arcueid had no chance of dodging it even from the stratosphere.

Wasn't able to escape because of its AoE, but she was able to react to it.

Although she immediately tried to pull back to avoid it, the guillotine covered the entire city, and its time of impact was close to zero.

When there was just a single Calvaria Galgalim satellite left, Shiki was able to intercept its beam and redirect it.

---

Regarding the manga feat, it is entirely possible for Shiki and Arcueid to be jobbing for the sake of comedy. After all, in Melty Kohaku and Hisui are comic relief characters whose strength varies for the plot.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Nasuverse in general cares much more about the "concept" of the thing than to the historical depiction and form that a concept took in a specific culture. Tamamo-no-Mae story shows this perfectly, in my opinion. In line with what we consider to be modern occultism, Nasuverse is highly syncretic.

That, and Nasu just likes to "go against" the flow, so to say. Even when he does ridiculous things as making Arthur a female, this change gains a whole new life by the narration and backstory he gives it.

Then, there's Nasu just being ridiculous. Like Twelve Machine Gods. But they are still ******* awesome, so who cares?

And Gilgamesh being blonde is actually correct, technically. Or, at least, it has a reasoning, given he's 2/3 God, and the Gods of Sumer/Babylonia "are blonde"(Annunaki) in some modern reinterpretations. Ishtar being black haired is the weird one, and is probably the influence of Rin's body.

also this came from my comment about me complaining why there’s no houyi servant.


they also said it was because too divine.

But then I just said to them about the pseudo servants

if gods are too divine we can always just have them possess someone. I mean if it works for Ishtar, eresh, parvati, etc then it should work for houyi

 

[LehenDuo]

Wasn't able to escape because of its AoE, but she was able to react to it.

Although she immediately tried to pull back to avoid it, the guillotine covered the entire city, and its time of impact was close to zero.

That's not entirely correct. Calvaria Galgalim is "manifest curtain of light", "a guillhotine", a "blade of light".
As the following translation says:

現れる光の幕。
　A manifest curtain of light.
　瞬きより速く落下した断頭台は、アルクェイドに回避を許さなかった。
　The guillotine what fell forth quicker than the blink of an eye didn't permit that Arcuied could evade.
　瞬時に身を引いて回避行動に入ったものの、断頭台の射程はこの街全てに及び、その着弾時間は無に等しい。
　Even that she immediately sidestepped and initiated evasive action, the guillotine's effective range encompassed the entirety of the city, and duration [unto] impact approximated to nothing.
　いかに真祖の姫であろうと、地上で活動する以上、この断頭台からは逃れられない。
　Irrelevant that she was the princess of the True Ancestors, so long as she acted as of the Surface, there wasn't any escaping this guillotine.

「ァ―――ア、あああ、ア―――！」
「a — A, aaa, A — !」

　熱線の壁が白い化身の体を圧し潰す。
　The wall of heat rays crushed the flesh of the white Incarnation.
　長さ50キロメートル、幅10キロメートルに及ぶ光の刃。
　A blade of light 50 kilometers in length; 10 kilometers in width.
　それは質量を伴って、容赦なくアルクェイドを地べたに這わせ、街を地盤ごと切り裂いた。
　Per its mass was Arcuied mercilessly made to crawl upon the ground; was the city fractured alongside the bedding (地盤, jiban, lit. "earth plate"; "foundation," or "crust" in a geological sense) [what underpinned it].

Here, I need to mention one thing.

瞬時に身を引いて回避行動に入ったものの、断頭台の射程はこの街全てに及び、その着弾時間は無に等しい。
　Even that she immediately sidestepped and initiated evasive action, the guillotine's effective range encompassed the entirety of the city, and duration [unto] impact approximated to nothing.

This can also be understood as "Although she immediately sidestepped and took evasive action." Meaning, she actually did reacted and tried to escape the attack. Don't exactly know which of the two are "the true" meaning, but nonetheless, the idea is that it didn't matter what she did, she would be hit.

Important terms: "didn't permit" an evasion and then "even that she immediately sidestepped", the RANGE, not AOE, the kanji used is the kanji for the range of a gun/firearm, "射程". The speed of the attack is twice said to be too much, once saying she could evade, then said the "duration" to impact was basically 0 (This could actually be translated as "equal to 0", as "等しい" can se translated as "equal/no different/as good as/etc.)
The blade LENGTH is 50km, fitting into the description of it being "shot" from the stratosphere, the highest part of it, actually. 50km, at the speed of light, gives... 0.15ms?. The WIDTH of the shot is 10km, fitting into the description of a curtain of light, a guillhotine, that fractured the surface as a line.

So, the depth of the attack is never said. The description of it, the three forms used, suggest an attack that is "line-like". It's not AoE.

The after effects of the attack, creating:

大地が浮上する。
　The land rose.
　光の壁によって切断された街が、一方を上空に、一方を地底に沈下させていく。
　The city what was severed by the wall of light did on the one hand [ascend] to the skies above; did on the one hand sink into the ground below.
　その断層のカタチは、開かれた獣の顎あごのようだった。
　The Form (カタチ, katachi) of this dislocation (断層, dansou, lit. "severed layer"; in geology, "fault") was alike to the open jaws of a beast.

Again reinforces the line like aspect, not only by the result, by describing it as a wall of light.

Melty Blood game even shows this "wall" aspect of the attack, actually, in the disposition of the reflectors as per a line, and per the wall of light that it creates as per activation. The proper AoE as in surface covered is only unidimensional.

I also remmeber you Ciel had to chant Calvaria Galgalim (AFTER SHE TAUNTS ARCUEID ABOUT HAVING FINISHED HER PREPARATIONS), and it's an attack that begins at 50km away. The cant explicitly says "sever/cut the neck", the original Idea Blood used to prepare this spell was Be'ze's, which bears the Principle of Sword. There are MANY things that point towards it not being an true AoE attack as in covering long portions both x & y axis of the surface of the World.

Now - lightspeed movement has also been said to be possible, put at least to Servants, it damages their Graphs. The Fate games also have something along that line said, but I don't remember which one, EXTRA/CCC/etc...

So, I think this makes it pretty clear that the problem was in fact the speed of the attack. If anything is confusing in the explanation, please say so.

 

[Violatas]

Is the Remake good? Heard mixed things about it. Haven't gave it a read yet myself since I'm still waiting on better translations. The ones I've seen are still kinda rough.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

question could mash kill GOW zeus with black barrel?

 

[Violatas]

Black Barrel kills down to the conceptual level and is straight up one of the strongest weapons in Nasuverse so...

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Black Barrel kills down to the conceptual level and is straight up one of the strongest weapons in Nasuverse so...

i think it's a stomp though. zeus has no way of hurting her because of the shield and she stomps because she can negate his type 8 immortality (he has type 4 but i think that has to do with his type 8)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

he's faster though so speedblitz but then again the shield

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

That's not entirely correct. Calvaria Galgalim is "manifest curtain of light", "a guillhotine", a "blade of light".
As the following translation says:



Here, I need to mention one thing.

This can also be understood as "Although she immediately sidestepped and took evasive action." Meaning, she actually did reacted and tried to escape the attack. Don't exactly know which of the two are "the true" meaning, but nonetheless, the idea is that it didn't matter what she did, she would be hit.

Important terms: "didn't permit" an evasion and then "even that she immediately sidestepped", the RANGE, not AOE, the kanji used is the kanji for the range of a gun/firearm, "射程". The speed of the attack is twice said to be too much, once saying she could evade, then said the "duration" to impact was basically 0 (This could actually be translated as "equal to 0", as "等しい" can se translated as "equal/no different/as good as/etc.)
The blade LENGTH is 50km, fitting into the description of it being "shot" from the stratosphere, the highest part of it, actually. 50km, at the speed of light, gives... 0.15ms?. The WIDTH of the shot is 10km, fitting into the description of a curtain of light, a guillhotine, that fractured the surface as a line.

So, the depth of the attack is never said. The description of it, the three forms used, suggest an attack that is "line-like". It's not AoE.

The after effects of the attack, creating:


Again reinforces the line like aspect, not only by the result, by describing it as a wall of light.

Melty Blood game even shows this "wall" aspect of the attack, actually, in the disposition of the reflectors as per a line, and per the wall of light that it creates as per activation. The proper AoE as in surface covered is only unidimensional.

I also remmeber you Ciel had to chant Calvaria Galgalim (AFTER SHE TAUNTS ARCUEID ABOUT HAVING FINISHED HER PREPARATIONS), and it's an attack that begins at 50km away. The cant explicitly says "sever/cut the neck", the original Idea Blood used to prepare this spell was Be'ze's, which bears the Principle of Sword. There are MANY things that point towards it not being an true AoE attack as in covering long portions both x & y axis of the surface of the World.

Now - lightspeed movement has also been said to be possible, put at least to Servants, it damages their Graphs. The Fate games also have something along that line said, but I don't remember which one, EXTRA/CCC/etc...

So, I think this makes it pretty clear that the problem was in fact the speed of the attack. If anything is confusing in the explanation, please say so.

I stand corrected on Calvaria Galgalim being much thinner than I thought; I assumed width refers to the thickness of the beam instead of the spread of Calvaria stars.

Though Arcueid challenged Ciel to show her the attack, so she wouldn't have preemptively tried to stop it despite taunts.

「それは楽しみね。私の息吹を受けたご褒美に見てあげる。で、そんなご大層な武器はどこにあるの？　もしかしてその杭打ち機、戦車にでも変形するの？」 "Well I look forward to it. I'll allow you to show it to me as reward for defending against my breath. So, where is this grand weapon of yours exactly? Is that pile-driver of yours going to transform into a tank or something?"

Is the Remake good? Heard mixed things about it. Haven't gave it a read yet myself since I'm still waiting on better translations. The ones I've seen are still kinda rough.

Tsukihimates are the group doing a full translation, and they are pretty quick and have their translations in open source. They already have the Arcueid route (which is very similar to the original route, with the biggest difference is that Nero Chaos is replaced by a weaker DAA) translated, and are editing the Ciel routing (which is original plot).

 

[LehenDuo]

I stand corrected on Calvaria Galgalim being much thinner than I thought; I assumed width refers to the thickness of the beam instead of the spread of Calvaria stars.

Though Arcueid challenged Ciel to show her the attack, so she wouldn't have preemptively tried to stop it despite taunts.

「それは楽しみね。私の息吹を受けたご褒美に見てあげる。で、そんなご大層な武器はどこにあるの？　もしかしてその杭打ち機、戦車にでも変形するの？」 "Well I look forward to it. I'll allow you to show it to me as reward for defending against my breath. So, where is this grand weapon of yours exactly? Is that pile-driver of yours going to transform into a tank or something?"

Yes, but I say that to affirm that Arcueid knew where the attack was coming from. The narration describes how first, Arcueid looks to the sky -> in the sky, multiple lights are shining -> Ciel chants -> the spell actually "goes through". This gives context to the part saying that even if she started moving, it would be useless - Ciel's effective range was the entire city and Arcueid, as long as she's in that effective range, even if 50km away from the thing actually firing the spell, wouldn't be able to dodge.

One question that does come from this is what's the thickness of the wall. I assume/imagine it's actually pretty thin, as in low single digits meters.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

also this came from my comment about me complaining why there’s no houyi servant.


they also said it was because too divine.

But then I just said to them about the pseudo servants

if gods are too divine we can always just have them possess someone. I mean if it works for Ishtar, eresh, parvati, etc then it should work for houyi

is this correct guys? Regarding houyi and possibly being added to the game

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Did anyone else notice Fergus looks like Brock a bit?

 

[Violatas]

Everyone did