Nasuverse: Base Servant Stats Revisions

[Overlord775]

Except the feat was done by Spartacus physically, not with the crying warmonger self-destruct

And Mordred blocked and even tanked a punch from a more amped Spartacus (as when he did the feat he wasn't even partially turned into a flesh abomination while the one that took on the Saber of Red was fully transformed), so her stats by proxy those of other servants would scale

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The feat consisted of Spartacus getting hurt continuously by the meteor, buffing himself with Crying Warmonger, and doing it to such an extent that his Saint Graph got completely destroyed and he can't even be summoned again...

How... how is "buffed continuously by an NP until complete annihilation" comparable to normal Servant stats? How the **** do you think "I got so strong that I self-destructed" scales to Spartacus' normal stats? How the **** does "I did an Anti-Fortress level attack" scale to normal stats, when Anti-Fortress is ridiculously above normal Servant Stats?

Why do people wanna disregard common rules stated a dozen freaking times, shown a dozen freaking times, every time they wanna scale Servants to something? This is why these threads are a goddamn mess.

**** it, I'll just try to stay away from this for now, am too tired for this.

 

[Overlord775]

man, no need to get aggressive, like i simply looked at the scan in the profile, which doesn't really say any of that stuff

and you do realize this i didn't even follow the thread untill yesterday, right ?


anyway, Crying Warmonger's Anti-fortress part is the detonation, which we don't count as the reason he destroyed the meterite according to his profile, while the NP itself is Anti-Unit (Self)

also, well, the Spartacus that Mordred fought was extremelly close to detonating, so there's that

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except the feat was done by Spartacus physically, not with the crying warmonger self-destruct

This is what you said.

man, no need to get aggressive, like i simply looked at the scan in the profile, which doesn't really say any of that stuff

So why in the blazes are you saying this now? Why did you decide to argue how stuff happened if you lack information and only know the feat superficially? Why are you stating stuff like fact and then pull off the "oh well I just didn't know" card?

Like, this shit:

which we don't count as the reason he destroyed the meterite according to his profile, while the NP itself is Anti-Unit (Self)

Why not, instead of the profile, you actually read about the series, and about the NPs? There's no Anti-Fortress ability! Spartacus simply let off an Anti-Fortress attack because his body was that strong! Because that's what Crying Warmonger does, heal him and make him stronger the more hurt he gets! When he destroyed the Meteorite, he was stronger than his base stats, because that's what the NP does, he got continuously hurt impacting the meteor, and got continuously stronger! When he let off the Anti-Fortress Attack, is because he was stronger than his base stats, because that's what his NP does! So why would you scale his base stats as comparable, and Mordred's base stats as comparable, to him when he's buffed way above his normal strength?

The fact I have to ask this question makes me really doubt you even understand what is it that he does, or what his NP does, which then confuses me why you are dismissing what the other side says, not off the source material but off the profile. Not even asking "but this is what the profile says, so is it wrong?", just outright dismissing it!

Ugh... **** it. Like I said, I won't approach this for a while. This specific kind of thing really stretches my nerves and is best I steer clear from here for a while to relax.

 

[Overlord775]

This is what you said.

"Higher with Crying Warmonger (Can boost his physical abilities depending on how much damage he receives. When pushed to his limits, he was able to destroy a meteor during the SIN Lostbelt but at the cost of damaging his Saint Graph)"
this is what the profile says

So why in the blazes are you saying this now? Why did you decide to argue how stuff happened if you lack information and only know the feat superficially? Why are you stating stuff like fact and then pull off the "oh well I just didn't know" card?

Why wouldn't i trust the profile ?

i simply looked at the profile, read it being listed under his normal strenght, saw the scan with him flying into the metorite and simply went with it

Why not, instead of the profile, you actually read about the series, and about the NPs? There's no Anti-Fortress ability! Spartacus simply let off an Anti-Fortress attack because his body was that strong! Because that's what Crying Warmonger does, heal him and make him stronger the more hurt he gets! When he destroyed the Meteorite, he was stronger than his base stats, because that's what the NP does, he got continuously hurt impacting the meteor, and got continuously stronger! When he let off the Anti-Fortress Attack, is because he was stronger than his base stats, because that's what his NP does! So why would you scale his base stats as comparable, and Mordred's base stats as comparable, to him when he's buffed way above his normal strength?

if you don'r read the profiles you won't ever be able to spot the stuff that's wrong, also i don't think Lostbelt 3 is even in the International fgo or if it there sure aren't an videos on youtube about it and i'm still at the singularities, so can't read it

tbh, i called it Anti-Fortress because you called llike that and it's Anti-Fortress in potency as it was litterally going to be used to destroy a Fortress, so i thought you ment that

Crying Warmonger also causes him to become a bloated abomination and then fire a giant laser

also, i ment scale as in more downscale

The fact I have to ask this question makes me really doubt you even understand what is it that he does, or what his NP does, which then confuses me why you are dismissing what the other side says, not off the source material but off the profile. Not even asking "but this is what the profile says, so is it wrong?", just outright dismissing it!

If the profile is wrong, you litterally just had to state it, yet you didn't

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

if you don'r read the profiles you won't ever be able to spot the stuff that's wrong,

Or, because we change the details of profiles all the damn time, you could assume with common sense that the profile is wrong, and not state facts like the profile couldn't possibly be wrong, or at least ask instead of state stuff like this:

Except the feat was done by Spartacus physically, not with the crying warmonger self-destruct

Just maybe, if I am not agreeing with it, there is an issue with the profile, which you yourself could infer, and ask me or someone else, not just use the information in said profile as if it's just inherently correct and then just say the other side is wrong.

I am still annoyed that I even have to explain this, this should be expected.

 

[Overlord775]

it being physical or not is not really a small detail, also if i can't trust the profile at face value then i can't really do either for your words, as what would guarantee me that you aren't the one in the wrong/both are wrong ?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

How about looking for information from the source material:
The gathered list of translated material book profiles.

Looking for what you want to look up:
https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthre...d-Order-Mats?p=2845004&viewfull=1#post2845004 (this being Spartacus' mats translation)

Check what it says:

A continuously activated type Noble Phantasm.
It is able to convert a portion of damage inflicted by the enemy into magic energy and accumulate it within the body.
The amassed magic energy can be used to boost Spartacus’ ability. Against strong Servants and such, perhaps even his very body itself would end up being transformed.
In a different work, he eventually becomes a meat lump of amorphous creature, completely destroying a giant fortress with one blow.

The Howl of the Wounded Beast [Noble Phantasm]
Crying Warmonger. The continuously active Noble Phantasm of Berserker of Red, Spartacus. It is the type where his legend itself was sublimated and turned into a Noble Phantasm. There is actually a huge difference in how this Noble Phantasm is used depending on whether he is summoned as a Berserker or a Saber. When he is summoned as a Berserker, it turns the wounds he receives from enemies into prana and accumulates it in his body to boost or heal himself.

Hell, you can even try to look up stuff to see if there's something around, like maybe this:


Or ask me where I am pulling off this information too?

Like, look, all you are taking away from this seems to be that you shouldn't trust anything. Why not instead, if I am saying something different, you ask why that is instead or the reasonings, instead of just going for one and digging in your heels? Hell, maybe you could try a quick search that takes minutes and see if you can find something up from, again, the source material.

 

[Overlord775]

i don't really see how those two statements help your argument, mind explaining ?

Considering how Spartacus didn't immidiatly die, i feel like that wasn't the self-destruct

also, further considering how he didn't get obliterated by standing in the middle of the explosion and even had the time to make an entire talk before dying, his durability would have to be of the same scale as the explosion

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

...

If I have the genuine patience, I am gonna talk later. I can't do this right nw.

 

[LehenDuo]

i don't really see how those two statements help your argument, mind explaining ?

Considering how Spartacus didn't immidiatly die, i feel like that wasn't the self-destruct

The video Lancelot posted, they explicitly say ''To take the maximum amount of damage for the sake of converting it into the maximum Noble Phantasm output'', at 3:24 + he literally screaming the NP True Name followed by what seems like an explosion + he destroying his Spirit Origin in the process + ''If he is damaged to the point of being on the verge of death, possibly an enormous amount of magical energy enough to destroy everything before Spartacus' eyes will be saved up.''

The F/GO version has no self-destruct, he's not Arash. Where are you taking that from?

also, further considering how he didn't get obliterated by standing in the middle of the explosion and even had the time to make an entire talk before dying, his durability would have to be of the same scale as the explosion

Not really, as he is the source of said explosion + he has a damage -> magical energy -> healing/boost NP. Yeah, ''real world physics'' would require that, but then, anyone moving at FTL would have to deal with friction and have their clothes incinerate, for example.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yep as i expected, Overlord with his too pushing arguments, after i knew that Spartacus used his NP to destroyed the meteor to the point he can't be summoned, i was knew it will unusable for the stats, and then i thinking "inb4 he will push it out to the mouth forcefully" and i was right, this is why i didn't commented too much in this thread

 

[Overlord775]

Well, someone should still calc the feat as anti-fortress noble phantasms would scale

 

[LehenDuo]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/nasuverse-noble-phantasm-revisions.109136

We are having that discussion on this topic

But I believe the calc for Anti-Fortress we currently have (Rhongobongo) is more impressive
Still worth the shot, though

 

[Overlord775]

oh, my bad

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Fate/Hollow Ataraxia exists.

Isn't Hollow Araxtia it's own thing that is set after all routes at once?

 

[LehenDuo]

Isn't Hollow Araxtia it's own thing that is set after all routes at once?

Q: Are the three routes of "Fate/stay night" parallel worlds existing at the same time? I was curious since I was how it would look to Zelretch.
A: They're parallel... sort of. But if Zelretch was observing, it'd become true, and my feelings on the matter is that I'd rather two routes disappear if one was true.
If all of these became possible at the same time, the other routes would become meaningless.

Interviewer: So really, “hollow” is the after story for which ending?
Takeuchi: It will feel like it encompasses the endings of all of the routes, but not being any of them.
Nasu: We mentioned it a little bit earlier, but “hollow” is set in Fuyuki city half a year after Fate/stay night. But despite that, the story’s starting from a situation where everyone, + some extra people and minus a certain character, is present and nobody thinks that’s unusual. While Shirou, the protagonist thinks this is weird, he can’t figure out what exactly is unusual. He’s in that kind of unstable situation, but he’s genuinely enjoying the “festivities” feeling that it’s great how everyone’s around.
And the story is going to progress like that, but slowly, they’re going to be getting involved in the reason why they’re in that strange situation, that is, the main story. A keen person might realize, “hey, this takes place after that route”, but we believe it should be left up to the user’s imagination.

Interview: So, should it be best to think that Fate/hollow ataraxia isn’t a continuation of the Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, and Heavens Feel arcs of the last game?
Takeuchi: Yes. It’s not really what happens after each route, but more of a “counter” to “Fate/stay night” itself…..is what feels more comfortable right now, I think. While there is a setting about this happening after this route, personally, I don’t think it’s that important. Basically, I think the player should interpret it however he wants.
Nasu: I personally wrote “Reunion”, the introductory portion of Fate/hollow ataraxia with the intention of it being the ending of a certain route in Fate/stay night and the ending of “hollow ataraxia”.

It's a strange topic. But, for example, Hollow Ataraxia objectively cannot be a continuation of UBW, as Lancer is dead and disappears. This little things can be used to ''hint'' at the correct route Hollow Ataraxia follows, but it doesn't seem it's a relevant thing to Nasu.

 

[Overlord775]

Having consistency in your serie: Exists
Nasu:

 

[LehenDuo]

Having consistency in your serie: Exists
Nasu:

EXTRA is the real mooncancer

 

[Schnee_One]

Jesus Christ this thread.

Regardless, about Sportacus, we should first decide which end of the calc is useable because if it’s the low end it’s barely stronger then Servant physical stats and Sportacus died doing the feat, which means it’s still not a base servant tier upgrade

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The first Berserker death in Heaven's Feel II was from a normal sword slash, not Mana Burst. It is implied he died a second time from the large AoE Mana Burst since he is seen captured, but it is possible that he no-sold it, and if he died we have no idea how much damage was done. He later dies with his limbs blown up from a Mana Burst, and after resurrection he no-sells a Mana Burst, and then burns to death from a final Mana Burst. Considering he has Rank A Battle Continuation, burning to death would barely kill him.
So it is depicted that he is continuously getting more resistent and no contradiction exists. Also, Salter has access to Sakura infinite Prana reserves, so it is completely plausible for her Mana Burst to have more output variation than your typical NP; if she went all-out with the final Mana Burst then Excaibur would be her final resort.

---

Hollow Ataraxia a sequel with elements from all three routes happening, possibly because a certain someone was messing with timelines before the start of the game.
'it is not a sequel because this character died' is not a serious objection; it is confusing at first but make sense when you reach the ending.

---

Crying Warmonger Spartacus has the feat of shaking the cloud-level Hanging Gardens as if it is affected by an earthquake with his physical attacks on the ground, which can yield something very high with radiated wave.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Crying Warmonger Spartacus has the feat of shaking the cloud-level Hanging Gardens as if it is affected by an earthquake with his physical attacks on the ground, which can yield something very high with radiated wave.

Did this happen in the anime? I could get the context for anyone that wants to check it out.


idk how it would scale though..

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Chapter 3-12

Previous Page Next Page VOLUME 2 Chapter 3 Ch3-12 Assassin of Red’s Fortress Noble Phantasm, Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Though on the battlefield, this fortress was the only place ruled by silence…

fateapocryphathetranslation.wordpress.com

“Hmph. I am not so much of a fiend that I’d expose people’s privacy, but—whoa there.” An impact ran through the ground beneath them from the bottom of the gardens. The whole gardens trembled violently as if affected by an earthquake. “…That was?” “The aftershock of Berserker’s attack, probably. It seems he’s about to reach his critical point.” Assassin of Red ordered the Hanging Gardens to ascend higher in the air. It would be troubling if these gardens were targeted by that [weapon]. He should be targeting not these gardens, but the Fortress of Millennia. “However—won’t the Holy Grail break as a result?” “Have no fear. The Greater Grail is underground beneath the fortress, and it’s not something that can be turned into rubble anyway. Even if Berserker goes to attack it directly, there’s no problem. And in any case he no longer has such intelligence left in him.” Using remote-viewing thaumaturgy, Assassin of Red confirmed that Ruler was fighting Berserker of Red. “Now then… How does Ruler intend to face Berserker? If she gets hit by his final attack, even she won’t be able to walk away unscathed.” Just as Assassin of Red said, the champion of rebellion, Spartacus, was about to swing his final blow. He was targeting the Fortress of Millennia where the oppressors were gathered. The mad warrior didn’t even consider that his own Master was there.

Around this point in the anime, Mordred briefly fights Spartacus and gets hit by him before retreating. In the LN it just says that she hesitated before retreating.

 

[Schnee_One]

Question did we ever think of where to scale Lion King and people comparable or is it way too late for that

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Question, didn't lion king tank excalibur at the end?

 

[LehenDuo]

Question, didn't lion king tank excalibur at the end?

I think you mean Airgetlam?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think you mean Airgetlam?

I thought they used an excaliblast after it was reveled it was excalibur? Which is why mash and the master came to help him? I don't remember the scene though. Been a while

 

[Ionliosite]

Question did we ever think of where to scale Lion King and people comparable or is it way too late for that

That should be its own thread, since Divine Spirit scaling in general is kinda ****** right now.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah I can agree there, I just don't know whether to do that now or later when the FGO movie comes out

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I feel like this thread has gone mega off track... It's so goddamn hard to keep focus over something as huge as Fate

 

[Ionliosite]

I feel like this thread has gone mega off track...

I mean, most of the derailment is just people talking about NPs on the wrong thread.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean, most of the derailment is just people talking about NPs on the wrong thread.

I should really make a new thread that compiles all of the calcs in the OP

 

[Regidian]

The feat of summer ruler arturia should be revised or it's still high 6-C in her base?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

If we use the radiated wave formula, popularized by the 'Goku shakes afterlife' calc, Spartacus earthquake feat is an easy Tier 6 physical feat since the light novel states that the Hanging Garden is several kilometers away, and adaptions show it at cloud level.

The light novel states that the feat happened while Jeanne is fighting critical Crying Warmonger Spartacus, the manga shows Jeanne blocking a punch from critical Spartacus, and the anime shows Mordred blocking and tanking punches from critical Spartacus. On that basis Servants would scale.

The Hanging Garden is not a minor area since it is basically a small city.

 

[Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete]

Just scale everyone to Akasha and make them 1-A.

 

[Regidian]

Just scale everyone to Akasha and make them 1-A.

all heroic spirit true self 1-A

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Not sure why I'm not getting notifications for this thread

 

[Regidian]

Does someone know if the movie have the scene with gawain and lion king? And if this can be calc?

 

[Regidian]

Why not divide the beenu feat up by a percentage?

If she vaped a part of beenu take the beenu calc and then use 25% of it or 50% of it or 10% of it

She vapored the entirety of Benmu after archer alter break it (know it's dead but since i have just redo all the scene)