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Naruto Uzumaki vs Sousuke Aizen

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ExSENNA said:
IIRC when it comes to soulhax and mindhax potency this wiki uses amout of people that are haxed. TFO Response: IIRC, that's never stated and surely isn't written anywhere on the wik that I know of. Plus it makes 0 sense to scale the strength of a Soul Manipulation to the amount of people it affects. As I said before, Naruto Soul Manipulation Effectiveness Goes by the Strength of the User Relative to the target. The weaker you are compared to your target, the less effective your Soul Manipulation is. This is proven. You can't say because Yammy was able to affect Hundreds to Thousands of Souls he can affect the soul of someone stronger when they have resistance to Soul Manipulation to those weaker to them. Soul Sucking a bunch of 10-B's shouldn't override the resistance of Someone who resists 7-A's soul Manipulation.
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Which mean yes even Yammy can reiatsu crush Naruto. And Aizen scales massively above him. TFO Response: Addressed This Above.
It doesn't matter how strong you are physically. TFO Respose: Not True. If you cannot Soul Suck a Naruto Character Instantly, they can physically pull on their soul with Chakra and rejoin it with their body. In This case, it becomes a battle of the Targets Physical Strength vs The users Method's Strength to extract (Let's also not Forget that it's not justr Physical Strength. Orochimaru didn't physically pull on his soul to resist and Naruto showcased innate resistance by being at a Nea level to Nagato before even pulling).
No significant resistance to soulhax? You get crushed. TFO Response: Sure....but that's not applicable here.
In context of Bleach, literally everyone has resistance to soulhax and even then reiatsu crush does work on them. TFO Response: Again, let's not forget that their "Resistance" Comes from not being far below their opponent in terms of Spiritual Power (Sounds Oddly Familliar to what's shown in Naruto....)
Naruto's resistance to soulhax comes from Nagato's soulrip, which would've killed him it wasn't for Itachi. He gets crushed. TFO Response: You seem to missing the part where Nagato wasn't able to Instantly Soul Rip Naruto and that the ability to do so tied to the Users Strength (Jutsu Strength). So no....Naruto wouldn't be getting "Crushed" by someone weaker than him in Bleach when he resists attempts to manipulate his soul by Reletive or SLightly Stronger Individuals than himself.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Snoke123 said:
then will someone answer my question? would naruto resist the soulhax of yhwach and soul king?
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No, he cant he would die by them just standing there and flexing their reiatsu, the resistance of naruto's soul is lower than the 10-A character we have in bleach that can resist a soul hax in the 100s.
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This is just blantantly false.....Like you're literally not even talking about the actual Resistances shown in Naruto but some headcanon nonsense.
 
It have been proven numerous time that your ammount of spiritual energy isn't a factor when it come to resisting soul stuff in bleach , only your innate resistance .

tatsuki , a 10-A , could survive yammy's and aizen's reiatsu when aizen could crush grimmjow, a high 6-C, that's a diffference in the trillions if not more .

orihime, a 7-C, could be near stark without a single issue when dozens upon dozens of 7-C hollow died by stark passive reiatsu .

@sigurd : because there is still people that need to be educated on it's properties,apparently .
 
TheFinalOrder said:
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Snoke123 said:
then will someone answer my question? would naruto resist the soulhax of yhwach and soul king?
Click to expand...
No, he cant he would die by them just standing there and flexing their reiatsu, the resistance of naruto's soul is lower than the 10-A character we have in bleach that can resist a soul hax in the 100s.
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This is just blantantly false.....Like you're literally not even talking about the actual Resistances shown in Naruto but some headcanon nonsense.
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Oh yea Naruto resisting geting soul hax and having problems by a casual soul hax is of course enought to resist 1000s to millions, of course you could try and make a CTR for naruto like other have before (in which they failed) but i doubt you would make one.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
TheFinalOrder said:
.
No shit, but where does it say that Haxing more Souls > Potency of Soul Hax? I'll wait. And no, unless you have a source, I won't be taking your word for it.

Also, pay attention to the argument better since you want to harp on "Soul Hax Potency". Character A can barely Soul Hax Character B if they're weaker than Character B in Naruto (And Character A is further Shut Down the wider the power gap). So, in actuality, Nobody in Bleach is Soul Haxing nobody in Natuto just because they can Soul Hax hundreds to thousands of fodders in their verse. Quantity =\= Quality here. Just because their range is more than 1 at a time doesn't make it "stronger". Not that you guys can get your heads out of your asses long enough to see reason anyways<\s> </div>
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So i assume you have not been in this wiki long enough to know that both mind and soul hax is treated by the number of soul and minds you can hax or if a character can soul hax 100 and you resist then your ressistance is in the 100s
Dont matter what you believe as that is how is treated here, dont like it? make a CTR.
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You call it what you want and have your opinion about what I said all you like, I frankly don't care but.....I have 0 reason to trust your word. No Source = Baseless = Dismissed. I made this very clear in my last post to you. We don't need to go back and forth. Bring a Source stating that's the standard on this wiki and not some arbitray decision from some lone fanbase and I concede. If not, you can huff and puff all you want. Talk your shit if you have to, but it doesn't negate the fact that it's baseless until it's not.
 
Naeblis495 said:
You can argue about that all day , but unless you got a crt accepted ,that's your head canon .
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Except I don't need to make a CTR about something not written on the wiki, so....seems like you all need to make a CTR to get it added. Just saying...
 
Soul manipulation is an ability scaled to the amount of souls one can manipulate, and it's been like that in the wiki for the longest time. So no, we aren't the ones that need to make a CRT, you'll need to make a CRT if you want to change our soul manipulation standards.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Soul manipulation is an ability scaled to the amount of souls one can manipulate, and it's been like that in the wiki for the longest time. So no, we aren't the ones that need to make a CRT, you'll need to make a CRT if you want to change our soul manipulation standards.
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I think he is trolling prince.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Soul manipulation is an ability scaled to the amount of souls one can manipulate, and it's been like that in the wiki for the longest time. So no, we aren't the ones that need to make a CRT, you'll need to make a CRT if you want to change our soul manipulation standards.
Click to expand...
GIVE ME A SOURCE! It's that simple....Like I said, I'm not taking anybodys' word for it. If it's not on the Wiki, I don't need to make a CTR because it's Arbitray. Get that through your head.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
The Prince of Counters said:
Soul manipulation is an ability scaled to the amount of souls one can manipulate, and it's been like that in the wiki for the longest time. So no, we aren't the ones that need to make a CRT, you'll need to make a CRT if you want to change our soul manipulation standards.
Click to expand...
I think he is trolling prince.
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Not trolling if it's the truth...
 
@Final


Listen, dude if you wanna be downright ignorant about how we treat soul manipulation then be my guest but don't expect anyone to take you seriously. You can quite literally take a look at any threads with a character with soul manipulation, it's rated by the amount of souls one can manipulate. If you want you can even ask literally any staff member and they'll tell you the same. If you genuinely want to be stubborn in refusing to accept how we rate soul manipulation then feel free to make a CRT debunking it.
 
@Sigurd

I don't really care, Bleach doesn't really interest me. But I was curious about that.

@Naeblis

It has never been proven. It was argued the same as you are arguing, however, we have the statement within the work, about what the RC is and how it works, and how it is basically sustained and directly linked to spiritual energy.

AP has nothing to do with it. AP = / = Amount of Energy.

Orihime can exert much more energy for defense and this indicates to me that she has a lot of hidden energy, or that she doesn't know how to use it directly. And Starrk has not shown himself to kill anyone but Hollow, thanks to himself being one.

Either way, this is derailing the CRT. And I don't really care.
 
Just to note that a 10-A with a Planetary Soul destruction bypass the resistance of Characters stronger than him with basic resistance, you can't scale AP with Hax.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
@Final

Listen, dude if you wanna be downright ignorant about how we treat soul manipulation then be my guest but don't expect anyone to take you seriously. You can quite literally take a look at any threads with a character with soul manipulation, it's rated by the amount of souls one can manipulate. If you want you can even ask literally any staff member and they'll tell you the same. If you genuinely want to be stubborn in refusing to accept how we rate soul manipulation then feel free to make a CRT debunking it.
Click to expand...
Resorthing to insults now because you can't prove your arbitray point? Ain't this the thing you guys bitch about the most? Hypicritical don't you think?

Stop with the CTR nonsense fam. It's not on the wiki. That train of thought is arbitrary until you get it added to the wiki. I find it laughable that you guys keep harping about something that should be easy for you to prove if it's a wiki "standard". The Soul Manipulation Page sure as hell doesn't cite it. BRING A SOURCE OR STOP WASTING BOTH OUR TIME. It's that simple.

And note, it seems to be the Bleach Fanbase arguing that majority of the time.
 
Well guys, maybe go take a deep breath, count to 10, drink a cup of coffee, listen to your favorite song, create a thread for that/discuss it on someone's wall and debate the actual topic or something :p
 
The actual topic of a Bleach thread isn't reiatsu crush and soul hax in general? Nani?

OT: pretty sure we all agreed Aizen isn't gonna get the talk.
 
Padaruyos said:
What is Aizen's motivation for being a villain anyway?
Click to expand...
Basically replacing an useless old man as the king of Soul Society. Or so he says.

It can be said he's a little bit complex character, as he also wanted someone to defeat him because he was so powerful and intelligent from his birth that there was no one who could ever understand him and that got him into being completely alone. Probably why he understood Starrk well, who got the same problem
 
A CRT needs to be done about soul manipulation

To say in one verse that people can crush and manipulate the souls of people around them is valid

But IIRC, Reiatsu Crush is going off of how much spiritual energy someone has. A problem w/ this being deemed a passive for an entire verse on VSBattle Wiki is this is giving a power the character don't even have in their own verse. It isn't passive, otherwise the fodder in Bleachverse would all be killed all the time being around people "Passively Reiatsu Crushing".

And the own source material goes against the wording on the fanbase here, making the head cannon that all Bleach characters have resistance to not being Reiatsu crushed.

"The difference between spiritual energy and spiritual pressure is simple: Reiryoku is the amount of energy a being has stored within their body or soul, whereas Reiatsu is the pressure that a person's Reiryoku exerts. In other words, Reiryoku is potential while Reiatsu is energy in use and can be sensed by other spiritually aware beings. In general, those with high levels of Reiryoku will often have the highest levels of Reiatsu also. A skilled warrior can overcome a person possessing greater Reiryoku by possessing greater Reiatsu - this is achieved by having greater control over their own spiritual energy."

https://aminoapps.com/c/join-the-ba...u-crushing/r5R3_04TeuLpvd16YX1nWbodeMKbpzznWr

Within the Bleachverse, Reiatsu crush still works in the sense of: The more reiatsu one has, the more likely they can crush Character B.

If Reiatsu is the spirutual pressure, or in other words "ENERGY", then this should remain as Character A vs B's spiritual energy right?

Chakra is physical energy and spiritual energy, so why is it that someone w/ a chakra pool of planetary amounts of energy being crushed by someone with less energy? It's going against the own logic displayed in the verse.

"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience. These two energies becoming more powerful will in turn make the created chakra more powerful. Therefore, practising a technique repeatedly will build up experience, increasing one's spiritual energy, and thus allowing more chakra to be created. As a result, the ninja is able to do that same technique with more power. This same cycle applies for physical energy, except the ninja needs to increase their endurance instead. Some unique individuals have substantial potential that enable them to exponentially increase their chakra reserves in a relatively short amount of time."

People love to make distinctions about the spirit/soul in Naruto and Bleach being different and no shit, it will be depicted differently but as a VsBattle site we failed to accomdate for both ends.

Characters in the Narutoverse, like Naruto himself, have shown the resistance of having his soul ripped out of him. To perform this it is a mix of his physical and spiritual energy to resist this happening.

If Reiatsu is spirtual pressure/energy exerted to someone else, a battle of spiritual energy

Why in the **** is everyone concluding people w/ less Spiritual Energy in one verse can overpower people with more Spiritual Energy in another verse?

It's a bad taste and an army of Itachi gg's but in 2020 form. It's a dishonest way to have a vsbattle go on, in essense it's lame. There's a lot of hold back from people posting their sources because they seem to have the intention of either using head canon or twisting words to fit their interpreation. If a discussion of Reiatsu Crush is to continue on this site people should atleast be honest with their debate.
 
In other words: Naruto stomps. He can outrange Aizen and barrage rasengans from the heavens. Faster speed, longer ranger, can send in clones at the thousands this battle doesn't need a debate on TNJ ((Which won't work on Aizen)) or Reiatsu Crush gg ((Aizen has a limit of how far he can dish out spiritual pressure + At the form he's in now he doesn't even have more spiritual energy than Naruto((Which can easily be calculated just checking how much chakra he can pull in this age.))
 
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3545508

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3302038

There was also one about the whole "chakra = reiatsu therefore no RC lol" and it was denied and RC was stated as working on them

As for the whole "RC is not passive" as stated in the series when 2 shinigami/Hollows prepare to fight they release their reiatsu and it was then decided that in this wiki since character A and B are starting in the fight as ready to go as the reiatsu would be active therfore making it passive.
 
If everyone is agree, i will ask a mod to close this

This thread also showed that any comparison between both verse, battle or not only end in massive mess.
 
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