Naruto Uzumaki vs Sousuke Aizen

[ExSENNA]

Talk no jutsu is not a thing.

Naruto never changed someone's mind before defeating them first, which would mean he needs to defeat Aizen first in order to "talk no jutsu" him.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

It is already made with that in mind, Naruto already defeated him and they are doing the talking session whether Naruto wins the ideological Debate or Aizen wins it is what is the thread is about

 

[Naeblis495]

Too bad that all of this stuff wasn't accepted .

And soul rip resistance won't protect you from having your soul crushed .

 

[Padaruyos]

What is Aizen's motivation for being a villain anyway?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Can someone close this because it has devolved into a completely different thing

 

[Naeblis495]

What if there is a 10-C character that has Universal level soul rip? Judging by Naruto's strength, the soul rip is complete trash, but that said character already has a feat of soul ripping Universal level characters. So what will it be?

Naruto get yeeted on any ammount of soul hax that goes past two souls .

Everything that he talked about is his head canon and wasn't accepted as of yet in this site .

 

[ExSENNA]

I'd say Naruto can't. Whenever Naruto changes someone's mind is not because he defeated them, but they have a "wrong" way of thinking. That's not the case with Aizen. His motives aren't necessarily wrong. He didn't wanted live under rule of this thing and wanted to replace it with himself

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I'd say Naruto can't. Whenever Naruto changes someone's mind is not because he defeated them, but they have a "wrong" way of thinking. That's not the case with Aizen. His motives aren't necessarily wrong. He didn't wanted live under rule of this thing and wanted to replace it with himself

FINALLY someone got what the thread is about

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I actually don't think talk no Jutsu will work here, and not because I think it worked on weak minded people, in fact quite the opposite. Everyone Naruto had to use talk no jutsu on had a lot of common characteristics.

They all had a distorted sense of justice and morality shaped by abuse and trauma. Obito almost lost his life to save his friends only to later find his best friend killing his beloved rin. Not to mention he was a child soldier who had to witness the horrors of war first hand, and then being manipulated by Madara.

Nagato was similar as a war orphan who later on lost his best friend and then was manipulated by obito.

Gaara was always abused as a child and used as a mindless weapon feared by everyone.

But fundamentally they all had good intentions initially albiet extremely distorted and all had something that Naruto could relate to. Obito wanted to be hokage, Nagato was Jiraiya's student, and Gaara was a shunned Jinshuriki just like him. Talk no Jutsu didn't come out of nowhere, Naruto always had a fundamental connection with these people that he could use to reach them psychologically and through his actions and ideals show them what they COULD'VE BEEN(or could still be in the case of Gaara) . They all ultimately had good intentions and Naruto just showed them how they strayed off course because ultimately they all wanted similar things.

Aizen just doesn't have that kind of connection to Naruto for it to work(neither does Madara which is why he never attempted it with him or Kaguya or something) ...

so yea I don't see it working. They'll just have to fight it out. In which case Naruto would probably win. He can resist illusions and Soul manip.

I already explained why I don't think talk no Jutsu would work on Aizen.

 

[ExSENNA]

The thing is most Naruto antagonists are not pure evil. They have reasons to do what they are doing and usually have a ****** up backstory. That's not the case with Aizen or Yhwach. Aizen wants to crush anyone who seeks to control him and Yhwach is a straight up sociopath, So Naruto can't "talk no jutsu" these two guys because they are pure evil

 

[Padaruyos]

TnJ wouldn't work then.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Alright so how many points for Aizen now ?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

What if there is a 10-C character that has Universal level soul rip? Judging by Naruto's strength, the soul rip is complete trash, but that said character already has a feat of soul ripping Universal level characters. So what will it be?

I mean...If they have feats of soul ripping a Universal Character, that's pretty self explanatory wouldn't you agree? Range and Scope of ability isn't what matters in Naruto rather the strength of the character to do so.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Scans:

 

[Snoke123]

TnJ would not work for reasons already explained.

taking advantage of the soul crush conversation, can naruto resist the soul crush of yhwach and soul king?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I gotta agree with TheFinalOrder on the soul manipulation thing.

As for talk no jutso, it won't work FRA

 

[ExSENNA]

Fair point but that's not how it works. You may need phsyical strength/chakra comparable to Naruto in order to soulhax him in his verse but I don't think that applies to characters from another verses. In Bleach basically everyone has resistance to soulhax to a degree and even then they get paralyzed or terrified in presence of those with higher reiatsu/thus higher soulhax. Imagine a 10-B character who can passively soulrip hundreds of thousands of people. Can Naruto resist that by "muh phsyical strength"? I don't think he does and I don't think verse equalization covers that

 

[Padaruyos]

I guess all this fuss about soul ripping could be discussed at another thread. We strayed really far from the topic here. Anyways I bet TnJ wouldn't work.

 

[ExSENNA]

@Padaruyos is right. TnJ won't work on Aizen and and he can definitely flex on Naruto with his reiatsu. There is nothing else to talk here. Soulhax thing can be argued on another thread.

 

[Naeblis495]

I guess all this fuss about soul ripping could be discussed at another thread. We strayed really far from the topic here. Anyways I bet TnJ wouldn't work.

It already have been discussed to death. Many , many thread have been made on this and the outcome is always the same :

Bleach characther soul hax naruto characther without even trying because naruto characthers have weak resistances or none at all .

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Alright I guess we are all in the same boat that Naruto would not be able to change Aizen's point of view on how he does things then...Also I do hope any other thread that's supposed to be more about character interaction rather than fighting will be better than this...

 

[Naeblis495]

Alright I guess we are all in the same boat that Naruto would not be able to change Aizen's point of view on how he does things then...Also I do hope any other thread that's supposed to be more about character interaction rather than fighting will be better than this...

To be fair , you're the one that said in the OP that a fight is possible if they don't see eye to eye via discussion .

"Which is why this is a discussion rather than a versus thread. Of course if this doesn't work then it will be a fight"

Had you banned fighting/offensive actions altogether , this wouldn't be such a mess.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Soul Manipulation isn't AP based so no, we aren't scaling Naruto's soul manipulation to their AP but I wish yall luck in getting that passed once you make a CRT

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

To be fair , you're the one that said in the OP that a fight is possible if they don't see eye to eye via discussion .

"Which is why this is a discussion rather than a versus thread. Of course if this doesn't work then it will be a fight"

Had you banned fighting/offensive actions altogether , this wouldn't be such a mess.

Uh no, i said Naruto would put him down, meaning that there wouldn't be a fight at all and Naruto would just end him right then and there, which is technically your suggestion of Naruto stompping Aizen right away


i shiuod have been more clear, sorry about that

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

In order to Soul Rip in Naruto, you have to be stronger or relative in strength, proven through Hiruzen vs Orochimaru. After sealing a nerfed Hashirama and Tobirama, weakening himself and after being stabbed through the gut for an extended period of time, Hiruzen wasn't able to pull out Orochimaru's soul. Infact, Hiruzen initially pulled out half of it but as he grew weaker He was only able to hold on to Orochimaru's arms.
So, soul Rip in Naruto is relative to the strength an individual has. In addition to this, additional Soul Manipulation Resistance comes from Orochimaru and Hashirama wherein Orochimaru doesn't have the strength, even with his enhanced body, to assert dominance over Hashirama's soul.

(Will bring scans in a bit)

It doesn't matter if Naruto barely resisted a Single Target Soul Rip from Nagato. Nagato is Superior if not Equal to KCM Naruto thus has the strength to Soul Rip him and even then, unlike People who're fodder to him (Shizune for Example), it wasn't instant and what's notable here is that unlike with Orochimaru, Naruto wasn't actively resisting Nagato like Orochimaru was Hiruzen until well after.

So the resistance is innate. Therefore, all in all, Naruto Characters can't be "Reiatsu Crushed", unless it's by comparable or Stronger Characters, but the issue is, "Reiatsu Crush" only works on vastly Weaker Character, not anyone comparable or remotely near someone in terms of Spirit Energy.

Soul hax here is by the number of souls you can hax or the potency of the soul hax you resist naruto had problems with a soul hax for 1 soul in bleach people resist soul hax in the 100s to the 1000s so yea he gets RC pasively.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

What is Aizen's motivation for being a villain anyway?

If i remember right it was to destroy the SK and in the novel it was revealed why but i dont remember also he dont like people try to contol-manipulate him.

 

[Naeblis495]

Soul hax here is by the number of souls you can hax or the potency of the soul hax you resist naruto had problems with a soul hax for 1 soul in bleach people resist soul hax in the 100s to the 1000s so yea he gets RC pasively.

And it's not like he have proof that either of the single target soul stealing abilities in naruto scale above that : a single soul . It never stealed the soul of anyone having prior resistance either as both orochimaru and naruto got their resistance from barely resisting those techniques.

And for that reason, anyone who resisted those effects can only be scaled to barely above a single soul as they still struggled against it instead of no selling it .

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Soul hax here is by the number of souls you can hax or the potency of the soul hax you resist naruto had problems with a soul hax for 1 soul in bleach people resist soul hax in the 100s to the 1000s so yea he gets RC pasively.

No shit, but where does it say that Haxing more Souls > Potency of Soul Hax? I'll wait. And no, unless you have a source, I won't be taking your word for it.

Also, pay attention to the argument better since you want to harp on "Soul Hax Potency". Character A can barely Soul Hax Character B if they're weaker than Character B in Naruto (And Character A is further Shut Down the wider the power gap). So, in actuality, Nobody in Bleach is Soul Haxing nobody in Natuto just because they can Soul Hax hundreds to thousands of fodders in their verse. Quantity =\= Quality here. Just because their range is more than 1 at a time doesn't make it "stronger". Not that you guys can get your heads out of your asses long enough to see reason anyways<\s>

 

[Snoke123]

then will someone answer my question? would naruto resist the soulhax of yhwach and soul king?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

then will someone answer my question? would naruto resist the soulhax of yhwach and soul king?

As of now, no, seeing as the difference between them is comparable to if not vastly greater than what it is for Base Aizen and Grimmjow (But note, that wasn't "Passive" either).

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

then will someone answer my question? would naruto resist the soulhax of yhwach and soul king?

I don't think so because they're vastly stronger than Naruto

 

[ExSENNA]

IIRC when it comes to soulhax and mindhax potency this wiki uses amout of people that are haxed. Which mean yes even Yammy can reiatsu crush Naruto. And Aizen scales massively above him. It doesn't matter how strong you are physically. No significant resistance to soulhax? You get crushed. Simple is that. In context of Bleach, literally everyone has resistance to soulhax and even then reiatsu crush does work on them. Naruto's resistance to soulhax comes from Nagato's soulrip, which would've killed him it wasn't for Itachi. He gets crushed.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

.
No shit, but where does it say that Haxing more Souls > Potency of Soul Hax? I'll wait. And no, unless you have a source, I won't be taking your word for it.

Also, pay attention to the argument better since you want to harp on "Soul Hax Potency". Character A can barely Soul Hax Character B if they're weaker than Character B in Naruto (And Character A is further Shut Down the wider the power gap). So, in actuality, Nobody in Bleach is Soul Haxing nobody in Natuto just because they can Soul Hax hundreds to thousands of fodders in their verse. Quantity =\= Quality here. Just because their range is more than 1 at a time doesn't make it "stronger". Not that you guys can get your heads out of your asses long enough to see reason anyways<\s> </div>

So i assume you have not been in this wiki long enough to know that both mind and soul hax is treated by the number of soul and minds you can hax or if a character can soul hax 100 and you resist then your ressistance is in the 100s

Dont matter what you believe as that is how is treated here, dont like it? make a CTR.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

then will someone answer my question? would naruto resist the soulhax of yhwach and soul king?

No, he cant he would die by them just standing there and flexing their reiatsu, the resistance of naruto's soul is lower than the 10-A character we have in bleach that can resist a soul hax in the 100s.

 

[MostPowerfull]

I don't understand any of this and for me, it will always be a pure wank. It is the same downplay argument as saying that no one in Bleach affects the soul of someone from another verse, because no soul in another verse is made of Reishi.

Absorbing hundreds of souls scales only the absorption of souls, not the pressure exerted by someone's soul in Bleach, which is clearly defined and effective, by the amount of spiritual energy. If you have much more than the enemy, it works. If you don't have a lot, or are comparable, it doesn't work. A clear weakness, which is ignored.

If so ... Why do Yammi absorption scales to Reiatsu Crush for everybody beyond him? Was it up to him to do this via Reishi/Reiryoko/Reiatsu? Because if so, then we can scale Ningendo to Jigokudo, s ince all of these soul powers come from Rinnegan, which was able to force them to leave the Pure Land and return thousands of souls to the citizens Nagato killed when he invaded Konoha.

Who exactly was that RC hundreds of people on Bleach?

 

[Callsign_Castle]

Remember Kaguya's gravity planet?

Hado #90 -> BFR the remains to Hueco Mundo GG.

 

[Naeblis495]

A characther that resisted the hundreds soul rip was being crushed by the same characther's casual reiatsu .

stark also crushed dozens and dozens of hollows ( who already have resistance to soul hax) without even wanting it .

Reiatsu is superior to soul rip in bleach .

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Also the character that i mention from bleach while she managed to resist very well the soul rip when yammy got close his casual reiatsu was causing more damage than the soul rip itself have in mind that he was not doing anything he was just close to her.

 

[MostPowerfull]

This does not prove that RC is better.

I clearly remember him saying that you need to have a not-so-distant amount of spiritual energy from the user, or Reiatsu Crush will affect you. In this case, she just resisted one technique, but she doesn't have the spiritual energy needed to resist RC.

In this case, I clearly remember that the girl there, resisted for years Reiatsu who was released from Ichigo unintentionally and she acquired "a little more spiritual energy than an ordinary human".
Or something like this...

How exactly would RC work on someone?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Why do y'all always argue about RC lol.