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Naruto to Boruto General Discussion Thread 52

and genjutsu entails things like mind control memory erasure illusion creation preception manip etc not to mention he has rinnegan hax

as for naruto he has what homie above named as well as chakra regen spam cheese with clones summonings to mind manip all his sensory abilities insivible frog kuta attacks etc
 
Naruto does not have durability negation or sealing, paralysis isn't hax lol he does not have power null either. Amaterasu never accomplished anything and is not hax. All the rest are low tier hax except the 6 paths and switch teleport, and like I said narutos shadow clones aren't hax since he has no hax ability to give his clones to use, naruto is a brute force type of character. Without sasuke he would've gotten beaten worse by jigen.
 
When I talk hax I mean high tier broken hax like flying raijin, Kamui, kotoamatsukami, edo tensei, limbo, etc. if naruto had a broken hax like these and he creates clones then his shadow clones would be considered hax, but ye I get that shadow clones in general are hax since it's a physical copy of the user that is as strong as the original but with less move set variety since less chakra is distributed unless gathered by absorbing more, but narutos clones has his move set that contains no broken hax so they still lose to jigen.
 
frog strike ignore durablity it attacks your insides iirc and he has sealing with magnet style remember powernull comes from the rasen shuriken and why isnt paralysis hax? and if youre reffering to the genjutsu stuff i named as low tier hax it depends on who youre comparing him to being able to drive somebody insane or put them to sleep simply by looking at them is very good lol

and his clones have the exact same moveset as him wym
 
SinisterShadow703 said:
This wiki needs to add a possibly much stronger in prime for kaguyas profile, considering her 5 dimension time space busting feat was weakened kaguya without prime 10 tails(all beasts in one) and most of her chakra was absorbed by Hagaromo then dispersed to everyone on the planet.
Click to expand...
To be completely frank... this has always both completely stupid and lacking in common sense, even if the series itself sort of states it.

The wording would seem to imply that, somehow, Chakra is a limited resource and that all chakra that has ever been (at least in Naruto's planet and that isn't Nature Chakra) was already inside the fruit and was, therefore, part of Kaguya or... something.

Yet, that really doesn't make a lick of sense.

Even though she wanted to "regather" all the chakra and the one "shared" to her sons, at no point there's any indication that Kaguya was weakened giving birth, or that her chakra got partitioned. Neither for the Sage of the Six Paths with his 2 sons... neither for literally every single person with Chakra ever in the story of the series. If the chakra is "parted", where is this chakra the person produces coming from? Nature? Obviously not, Jugo's tribe shows what happens with that. The tree? Absolutely not, it was distributed into the 9 Bijuu. Their parents? Obviously not, Ninja degrade with age like anyone else but giving birth has literally no bearing on their power. Naruto, quite obviously, participated in the birth of his son and daughter yet he is simply implied to have gotten even more powerful instead. So really, Kaguya isn't "getting back" all chakra. Quite the opposite, everything indicates she's "reaping the rewards" of it spreading because if anything, it seems to have increased in amount. Already the likes of Hashimara. Otherwise, where does all the Chakra of Hashirama, Kisame, Naruto, and the entire clan of Uzumaki's before getting smacked upside the head come from?

In the simplest of senses, I see no way in which Kaguya was weakened, at least when she pulled off her TTSB, beyond not having half the nine tails and that's it. Nothing indicates she was weakened by "spreading" chakra, and on top of that she more or less succed most of it on Earth right back, of which there was obviously a heck of a lot.
 
Kidkinsey said:
frog strike ignore durablity it attacks your insides iirc and he has sealing with magnet style remember powernull comes from the rasen shuriken and why isnt paralysis hax? and if youre reffering to the genjutsu stuff i named as low tier hax it depends on who youre comparing him to being able to drive somebody insane or put them to sleep simply by looking at them is very good lol


and his clones have the exact same moveset as him wym
Click to expand...
When I meant his clones having a smaller moveset, I meant that since he had to distribute his chakra to his clones, if he summons a shit ton some clones won't have enough chakra to use the same attack the original is trying to use and combine with the rest of the clones.but that can be overcome via absorbing nature chakra etc. forgot about frog strike since he never uses it and magnet style my bad.
 
That's not really true. The chakra distribution is even among clones. Meaning he has as much chakra as any other single clone. Despite this, he's not winded and can do a shit ton even when he summons god knows how many clones (literally just see him summoning a legion and all of them being able to summon massive super rasengans before he is dried out just by using some of Kurama's power that the clone had a share of).

Is why I always derided and hated that Naruto had barely any long range tools, and almost all of it was rasenshurikens and bijuu bomb later on.

Imagine Naruto abusing different jutsu from different vantage points by strategically positioned and coordinated clones... Or even more, an information network of clones that could easily create and disperse a clone to send information directly back to Naruto, and all of them can still use transformation jutsu.

Is some of the aspects of the technique that I never felt were really abused and made me sad.
 
To be completely frank... this has always both completely stupid and lacking in common sense, even if the series itself sort of states it.

The wording would seem to imply that, somehow, Chakra is a limited resource and that all chakra that has ever been (at least in Naruto's planet and that isn't Nature Chakra) was already inside the fruit and was, therefore, part of Kaguya or... something.

Yet, that really doesn't make a lick of sense.

Even though she wanted to "regather" all the chakra and the one "shared" to her sons, at no point there's any indication that Kaguya was weakened giving birth, or that her chakra got partitioned. Neither for the Sage of the Six Paths with his 2 sons... neither for literally every single person with Chakra ever in the story of the series. If the chakra is "parted", where is this chakra the person produces coming from? Nature? Obviously not, Jugo's tribe shows what happens with that. The tree? Absolutely not, it was distributed into the 9 Bijuu. Their parents? Obviously not, Ninja degrade with age like anyone else but giving birth has literally no bearing on their power. Naruto, quite obviously, participated in the birth of his son and daughter yet he is simply implied to have gotten even more powerful instead. So really, Kaguya isn't "getting back" all chakra. Quite the opposite, everything indicates she's "reaping the rewards" of it spreading because if anything, it seems to have increased in amount. Already the likes of Hashimara. Otherwise, where does all the Chakra of Hashirama, Kisame, Naruto, and the entire clan of Uzumaki's before getting smacked upside the head come from?

In the simplest of senses, I see no way in which Kaguya was weakened, at least when she pulled off her TTSB, beyond not having half the nine tails and that's it. Nothing indicates she was weakened by "spreading" chakra, and on top of that she more or less succed most of it on Earth right back, of which there was obviously a heck of a lot.

I don't think you know what you are talking about lol, comparing borutos birth to hagoromo who was birthed by a literal god is wrong. Secondly war kaguya was missing prime 10 tails what you mean only half of nine tails lol. Prime kaguya possesses all chakra on earth before giving birth, hagoromo and Hamura stole a large portion when birthed then defeated her. Hagoromo absorbed her chakra and 10 tails then shared chakra with everyone in the planet. Anyways there are 2 prime kaguyas the one that fought hagoromo and Hamura even tho she was weakened, and the one that possessed all chakra. Either way you split it war arc kaguya was extremely weakened after her defeat from hagoromo and Hamura, then wasted a lot of chakra fighting naruto and sasuke, its a no brainer. Don't know why people like you insist on speaking pure head cannon just to downplay a character...
 
well he kinda did what u wanted him to do vs pain and sasuke he made his clones rocks and tried to catch them off guard remember, and he did that disperse info thing during his rasen shuirken training its how he learned quciker

as for the vantage point thingy, that would be VERY cheesy lol imagine the first row shoots biju bombs while the 2nd wave throws RS from the air etc
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
That's not really true. The chakra distribution is even among clones. Meaning he has as much chakra as any other single clone. Despite this, he's not winded and can do a shit ton even when he summons god knows how many clones (literally just see him summoning a legion and all of them being able to summon massive super rasengans before he is dried out just by using some of Kurama's power that the clone had a share of).

Is why I always derided and hated that Naruto had barely any long range tools, and almost all of it was rasenshurikens and bijuu bomb later on.

Imagine Naruto abusing different jutsu from different vantage points by strategically positioned and coordinated clones... Or even more, an information network of clones that could easily create and disperse a clone to send information directly back to Naruto, and all of them can still use transformation jutsu.

Is some of the aspects of the technique that I never felt were really abused and made me sad.
Click to expand...
Oh ye sorry misinformation. So nvm about the limited move set thingy lol.
 
In terms of shadow clones. One can amplify their destructive capability vastly, so why isn't there a varied with clones note added to profiles lol. At this point screw it, I'll wait and see what they do with ap revisions.
 
He actually used it 3 times, when he was fighting the third Raikage was the second time. And when he was pushing the nail out of Son Goku. Not super cool but still a use.

@Kidkinsey Oh no, Naruto has always used his clones strategically. I don't deny that. My beef was with him not doing more with them with the massive range of Jutsu there exists, even potentially only for wind stuff. I liked the most when he maneuvered with them than when he was simply spamming them for attacks. And he used it... but merely for training. It can be abused in so many more ways it is not even funny. He could downright become an omniglot by making clones learn different things at once.

@Sinister I fail to see what Hagoromo being "a God" has to do with anything. Not to mention, he wasn't born uber powerful. Nothing indicates literally nobody ever in any point of the Naruto World gets weaker when they birth have kids, no matter how powerful the kid. So why would Kaguya, who was also never ever even implied in anyway to get "weaker" after their birth, get weaker after their birth...? You accuse me of knowing nothing while saying she was missing prime 10 tails, which is not a thing. The 10 tails was originally the chakra of all 9 tailed beasts. She got all 8 and half of the ninth, the fox, which is why Naruto got the half in Minato put on him to revive. All it is missing is that part.

I have no clue why people like you think I am downplaying anything when I give literal examples of how everything you come up with makes no sense, is based on nothing, and is even contradicted by the rest of the series.

You are free to find actual evidence to use as proof whenever you want if you wanna keep that high handed tone of yours.
 
if they let me be in charge of a naruto fight boyy.... because i agree with you he should be doing alot more with his clones (even tho hes already great)
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
He actually used it 3 times, when he was fighting the third Raikage was the second time. And when he was pushing the nail out of Son Goku. Not super cool but still a use.

@Kidkinsey Oh no, Naruto has always used his clones strategically. I don't deny that. My beef was with him not doing more with them with the massive range of Jutsu there exists, even potentially only for wind stuff. I liked the most when he maneuvered with them than when he was simply spamming them for attacks. And he used it... but merely for training. It can be abused in so many more ways it is not even funny. He could downright become an omniglot by making clones learn different things at once.

@Sinister I fail to see what Hagoromo being "a God" has to do with anything. Not to mention, he wasn't born uber powerful. Nothing indicates literally nobody ever in any point of the Naruto World gets weaker when they birth have kids, no matter how powerful the kid. So why would Kaguya, who was also never ever even implied in anyway to get "weaker" after their birth, get weaker after their birth...? You accuse me of knowing nothing while saying she was missing prime 10 tails, which is not a thing. The 10 tails was originally the chakra of all 9 tailed beasts. She got all 8 and half of the ninth, the fox, which is why Naruto got the half in Minato put on him to revive. All it is missing is that part.

I have no clue why people like you think I am downplaying anything when I give literal examples of how everything you come up with makes no sense, is based on nothing, and is even contradicted by the rest of the series.

You are free to find actual evidence to use as proof whenever you want if you wanna keep that high handed tone of yours.
Click to expand...
Ten tails was literally created to reclaim the chakra stolen from kaguya by the brothers. Secondly, it's a no brainer prime kaguya is everyone's chakra in the series in one since that's her chakra that was shared by hagoromo. Thirdly, let's just say ghost hagoromo didn't get stronger after death. Just half of his chakra was able to defeat kaguya and hagoromo kept telling naruto kaguya is stronger than him, obviously he was referencing to prime kaguya the one that fought him and Hamura, who was weakened.
 
what do you guys think of madara being able to use 1600 limbo clones? for example we know 1 madara can make 4 limbo clones and he can make atleast 20 wood clones which means 80 limbo clones, now each limbo clone used 20 wood style clones and we are up to 1600 invisible clones, and we know the clones have the same ability as the user so we have 1600 invisible perfect sussano
 
Naruto and sasuke was dogging on war arc kaguya, yet it took hagoromo and Hamura months fighter her and could only seal her in the end.The story contradicts your argument, and it's blatantly obvious war arc kaguya was extremely weakened...
 
Kidkinsey said:
what do you guys think of madara being able to use 1600 limbo clones? for example we know 1 madara can make 4 limbo clones and he can make atleast 20 wood clones which means 80 limbo clones, now each limbo clone used 20 wood style clones and we are up to 1600 invisible clones, and we know the clones have the same ability as the user so we have 1600 invisible perfect sussano
Click to expand...
That's assuming limbo clones can make their own limbo clones then yes. But for now let's just say the 4 limbo clones plus madara makes wood clones.
 
Try not to quote large walls of texts, makes the thread get way slower. If you do it, delete most of it and leave something like -snip- so that it doesn't do that.

And Kaguya was mentally unstable enough to try hunt and kill her kids and cry seeing Naruto and Sasuke, getting reminded of them. What she says is one thing, what the show CLEARLY shows is another. Chakra wasn't "stolen", they were born with it naturally. But Kaguya said it was stolen, she wasn't mentally in a right spot.

And no... no it isn't. People don't get weaker giving birth to people that can use chakra, not a single person. They don't "share" anything, nor lose anything. Where does the chakra literally anyone develops as they get stronger come from? From Hagoromo? You mean the dude that has every drop of his power despite being dead, evidenced by the fact that he imparted it in Naruto and Sasuke and then he got it back? How about the fact that despite getting it back, Naruto and Sasuke kept the massive increase in power and chakra? Where did that chakra come from? Is mental energy and the physical energy from a person's cells also Hagoromo's propierty and comes from him, since those are what forms chakra? Did he make those? This logic makes literal no sense.

And no, he quite literally states Madara, while not at full power, is getting close to his own power and by extension the power of his mother, and he keeps getting stronger. This was before Madara's peak in power. Naruto and Sasuke never even "beat" Kaguya, not even Hagoromo and Haruma did this. They fought her, couldn't finish her off, and were completely forced to seal her. They could barely keep up with her before she absorbed the people, and after that were getting thrown like rags. Being able to seal her doesn't mean they are more powerful than her either, otherwise they could just kill her. And we saw clearly with Momoshiki, her people can die like literally anyone else if they are hurt hard enough.
 
I don't think you know what you are talking about lol, comparing borutos birth to hagoromo who was birthed by a literal god is wrong.

Naruto is a god too SPSM is literally referred to as a divine state in the databook makes sense since its a literaly gift from god

Secondly war kaguya was missing prime 10 tails what you mean only half of nine tails lol.

Prime 10 Tails and the 10 Tails from the War are literally only different because they're missing 1 half of the 9 Tails

Prime kaguya possesses all chakra on earth before giving birth,

All the chakra on Earth is literally nothing to her its a drop in the LITERAL ocean especially in her time when the population was likely lower than Naruto's era

Hagoromo and Hamura stole a large portion when birthed then defeated her.

Having children is never implied to have an effect on Chakra Capacity if that was the case every ninja wouldn't have kids cause it would just be a nerf the more likely explaination is that Kaguya is batshit insane and just saw all Chakra on Earth as hers regardless of if it came from another person

Hagoromo absorbed her chakra and 10 tails then shared chakra with everyone in the planet.

Intially yes but Chakra increases with training its enhanced by mental, spiritual and physically energies meaning the Chakra Capacity of Earth would only have increased since Hagoromo disrupted it

Anyways there are 2 prime kaguyas the one that fought hagoromo and Hamura even tho she was weakened, and the one that possessed all chakra.

There's a negliable difference between those two versions

Either way you split it war arc kaguya was extremely weakened after her defeat from hagoromo and Hamura, then wasted a lot of chakra fighting naruto and sasuke, its a no brainer.

There's not a lot of difference between the version that fought her sons and the war arc version but yes she was incredibly weakened by the time she used ETSO
 
And no, he quite literally states Madara, while not at full power, is getting close to his own power and by extension the power of his mother, and he keeps getting stronger.

Still 99% sure that VIZ mistranslated that scan i think its supposed to be more along the lines of "he's attempting to reach my power" cause otherwise it just makes no sense how Naruto and Sasuke (50% of Hagoromo's power) could take turns ragging on him Sasuke for one literally blitzed an amped verision of the Madara that statement was made on and chopped him in half
 
Kaguya was immortal in that fight. Momoshiki wasn't....here you again with another head cannon about what kaguya was implying. Hagoromo blatantly said kaguya was stronger than him, naruto and sasuke ended the fight with kaguya in a few hours while it took hagoromo and Hamura months to beat her, unless you wanna tell me hagoromo and Hamura is weaker than naruto and sasuke lol. Your "then how do people increase chakra if it's kaguya" statement is easily debunked by the fact that everyone on the planet has a limit to how much they can increase their reserves by normal means. And we know sage mode or other power ups have nothing to do with kaguyas chakra. All chakra on earth in one is prime kaguya, you can't exceed your chakra reserve limit by normal means, at this point you don't know what your taking about and is going against the whole story of kaguya to prove a nonexistent point, and why y'all acting as though half of the nine tails is nothing . Naruto amped the Shinobi alliance 3x the chakra reserves of kakashi twice and that was with half of Kurama.. most of narutos feats throughout the series are with half Kurama lmao. I'm don't with this argument, love ya stay safe.
 
SinisterShadow703 said:
Kidkinsey said:
what do you guys think of madara being able to use 1600 limbo clones? for example we know 1 madara can make 4 limbo clones and he can make atleast 20 wood clones which means 80 limbo clones, now each limbo clone used 20 wood style clones and we are up to 1600 invisible clones, and we know the clones have the same ability as the user so we have 1600 invisible perfect sussano
Click to expand...
That's assuming limbo clones can make their own limbo clones then yes. But for now let's just say the 4 limbo clones plus madara makes wood clones.
Click to expand...
they dont in this scenario, the 20 wood clones make 4 limbos each and the 80 limbo clones each make 20 wood clones lol
 
Kaguya was immortal in that fight. Momoshiki wasn't....here you again with another head cannon about what kaguya was implying.

Momoshiki was also stated to be immortal plus immortality could just mean unaging anyway

Hagoromo blatantly said kaguya was stronger than him, naruto and sasuke ended the fight with kaguya in a few hours while it took hagoromo and Hamura months to beat her, unless you wanna tell me hagoromo and Hamura is weaker than naruto and sasuke lol.

Naruto and Sasuke can very well be stronger than than Teen Hagoromo and Hamura, they also likely could be better fighters than Hags and Hams as well making them more stratigically minded and it also helps the Kaguya they were fighting was slightly weakened

Your "then how do people increase chakra if it's kaguya" statement is easily debunked by the fact that everyone on the planet has a limit to how much they can increase their reserves by normal means.

They don't really anyone with sufficent training could get to Kage Level this is proven by multiple people throughout the series A and Sakura being prime examples

And we know sage mode or other power ups have nothing to do with kaguyas chakra. All chakra on earth in one is prime kaguya, you can't exceed your chakra reserve limit by normal means, at this point you don't know what your taking about and is going against the whole story of kaguya to prove a nonexistent point I'm don't with this argument, love ya stay safe.

if all the chakra everyone had was just from Kaguya they'd have a finite amount and would never be able to increase it and get stronger
 
You can get stronger with a finite amount of power but eventually will reach your limit lol. Naruto and sasuke is not stronger than teen hagoromo and Hamura... sasuke had one Rinnegan , and still could barley use to its full potential, teen hagoromo possessed 3 and sage of six paths power... as well as blocked primed 10 tails attacks with ease. Ghost hagoromo who lost all the power ups he got after defeated kaguya, gave 50 percent of his Chakra and that was enough to beat her, naruto even Rasenshuriken her arm off and was keeping up with her to the point Zetsu had to warn her that she's using a lot of chakra changing dimensions and tht extremely weakened kaguya performed the ETSB..now I'm officially don't lmao,change the topic cuz this is going nowhere. Love y'all stay safe.
 
SinisterShadow703 said:
Eh you can still scale people, since weakened kaguya tier 4 feat can be used to scale people stronger than her weakened state but not prime.
Click to expand...
here we are still uncertain which one give her tier 4 feat

now we are giving her tier 4 cuz we think ETSB(hax) + IT chakra combined make her tier 4

but DB stat its IT chakra from ninja along make her ETSB/her tier 4

if we use DB than kaguya with IT chakra = tier 4

Kidkinsey said:
madara when discussing the moon eye plan (infinite tsukyomi) says when using THIS jutsu (tsukyomi) i can create an ideal world and its possible by using the moon instead of our eyes, at that moment he had obito in the normal version of tsukyomi, and i know its a movie but obito also used it in road to ninja
Click to expand...
road to ninja obito is low 2-C lol
 
The manga saying it doesn't mean it makes sense.

People can grow their chakra, the only limit being their talent and their hard work. This would, quite literally, be entirely impossible if Chakra had a finite amount. It also makes no sense when you consider that chakra is spent and then regenerated with time from the physical and mental reserves of the user. Or what, that spent chakra is regenerated into the main source of chakra and then circulated back again into the person...? How does this work when we know Nature Chakra exists and is not normal chakra? Where does the chakra that Sasuke spits on your damn face when he uses a fireball jutsu go, and how does it come back to him afterwards? How does it go back to Kaguya when she uses it and spends it if it's limited? Merely by Occam's Razor, chakra being limited is an absurd proposal simply on the mere number of assumptions you need to make for the idea to work, assumptions that aren't even backed by anything except:-

Kaguya and Black Zetsu talking about chakra being dispersed, the very same Kaguya that, as Hagoromo points out, is as obsessed with power as Madara, and who is mentally unstable at best by the time of the battle.

And... nothing else. No other proof.

Now, proof that the idea makes no sense? Well:

- People being able to grow their maximum amount of Chakra at all. Doesn't make sense with a finite amount.

- Chakra being spent and refilling afterwards, and solely from the person's own reserves of energy. Doesn't make sense with a finite amount, and makes even less sense because where is the replenished chakra coming from?

- Nobody, not Kaguya, not any other single parent in the entirety of Naruto, growing even 1 percent weaker. Makes no sense if chakra is dispersed as more people can use it.

- Chakra not having run out after decades of war, with the likes of people like "my-reserves-are-*******-stupid" Hashirama, Madara, the earlier kages that were stupidly more powerful than the new ones, Indra and Ashura, one of whom the Sage even gave his power directly to.
 
As Battler356ushiromiya said:
BTW guys I've read novel which says one of kaguya's dimensions was parallel to naruto's world, so what about that?
Click to expand...
As far as I remember, it was simply being called a parallel dimension. Some wanted to argue it had to be parallel in size, while me and others argued that parallel can just as easily mean different space time (and is more likely because, parallel universe and all that, is a very popular world).

And yadda yadda.
 
It was actually stated Kaguya lost chakra when she gave birth to her sons. It doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. She was shown weaker as well


Also actually if you read Boruto; Momoshiki was actually hinting at something. Kaguya being a god actually makes her different then humans in the first place. Momoshiki said it's sad that Naruto can't pass chakra on to his children. Momoshiki said in a way that the Otsutsuki clan can.


Also Parallel world usually always takes into consideration Size. I don't see any special reason why it doesn't for Naruto now
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
People can grow their chakra
Click to expand...
more like chakra can grow its own


@NaruRiasUzumaki i did had onc but i lost it so will post here if i can find the link again
 
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