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My Shadowbokunohero Headcanon:
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine...
aEX7RN19_700w_0.jpg
 
When he says ''shoulder to shoulder'', doesn't he mean standing side by side? My friends said this as a counter argument.
Doesn't seem to be considering the kanji definition, and while it's not definitive, Chat GPT also interprets it as likely an ability comparison

ミナトと肩を並べ。
Image
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Regarding Speed, Base Minato is still = to KCM Naruto due to the Comps? Or does he scale higher? 🤔
What do you mean?
 
Do we still consider Base Minato = KCM in Speed, or do we scale Minato faster?
I don't think Minato's even scaled to KCM Naruto at the moment cause his speed section is very outdated. It pretty much just says his reaction speed gave him an edge against Ay and that's he's faster than Obito, who's rated as MHS+. Technically, based on the justification his combat speed wouldn't even be Sub-Rel 💀

Minato is faster than KCM Naruto though
 
I don't think Minato's even scaled to KCM Naruto at the moment cause his speed section is very outdated. It pretty much just says his reaction speed gave him an edge against Ay and that's he's faster than Obito, who's rated as MHS+. Technically, based on the justification his combat speed wouldn't even be Sub-Rel 💀

Minato is faster than KCM Naruto though
ay is sub-rel
 
So in regards to Speed, Regular 3TM Obito is comparable to Minato’s Combat Speed (“Slightly” Faster Actually), but slower than Minato’s Shunshin Speed.

And the only reason Minato could tag him is because of using basically a faster version of Tobirama’s “FTG Slash”
 
Look at Naruto (Last) profile, why does his rasengan or Asura Kurama have “far higher” or “Likely 5-C+” when there’s a stated multiplier?
 
ay is sub-rel
Ik, that's why I said combat speed. Minato's profile only compares his reaction speed to Ay.
So in regards to Speed, Regular 3TM Obito is comparable to Minato’s Combat Speed (“Slightly” Faster Actually), but slower than Minato’s Shunshin Speed.

And the only reason Minato could tag him is because of using basically a faster version of Tobirama’s “FTG Slash”
Obito isn't faster than Minato, Minato slowing down to make Obito think he could tag him and thus materialize is part of his stated plan
 
Ik, that's why I said combat speed. Minato's profile only compares his reaction speed to Ay.
If I say your reaction speed is what gave you the edge in the match i'm implying we have similar combat speed but the reason you won is due to your far higher reaction speed, the profile is just showcasing his reaction speed is much higher. The higher there used to be rel actually and it was coming from him being faster than his edo tensei state, His hokage speed justification also comes from there, obito is just a bonus and honestly he should have sub-rel reactions. But high tiers don't currently have a speed value anymore so they just heavily upscale. I also think his hokage self should just flat out have the new high tiers speed rating and higher reactions when the upgrade comes
 
Trust me I looked at it like 10 times. If ya don’t believe me check if out
I employ you to read it one more time. That rating you are looking at is for BSM naruto. naruto with strongest ninjutsu and infusing all his chakra is rated low5b and asura avatar is rated 3x more than base naruto. The exact value is 5exatons
 
Look at Naruto (Last) profile, why does his rasengan or Asura Kurama have “far higher” or “Likely 5-C+” when there’s a stated multiplier?
1.)
The "Higher, Far Higher, and Even Higher" starting from Kurama Six Paths Sage Mode is there because they're all still within the Small Planet Level category. Read the [Notes]

2.)
•High 6-A, likely 5-C+ (These two values are for Base Naruto, one scaling to a Feat done in Base in The Last, and the other scaling to his Shippuden Self's Base "Likely" 5-C)

•higher with Stronger Ninjutsu (It's "Higher" instead of Low 5-B because Naruto's Base has two AP Values)

•5-C, likely 5-C+ with Bijū Sage Mode (It has a "Likely 5-C+" because it's scaling to TCM Toneri who is only "Likely" scaling to Half of Hamura's Low 5-B. 5-C is half from Toneri's Moon Split)

•higher, likely Small Planet Level with Stronger Ninjutsu and by condensing chakra (These are scaling to Toneri's Ginrin Tensei Baku and Kinrin Tensei Baku which scale to Toneri's 5-C Moon Split or "Likely" the full Low 5-B value of Hamura)
 
naruto with strongest ninjutsu and infusing all his chakra is rated low5b
Technically, for The Last it's

Moon Level (88.74 Exatons Moon Split), likely Small Planet Level (845.9 Exatons scaling from Hamura)

and asura avatar is rated 3x more than base naruto.
I think you mean Kurama Six Paths Sage Mode (1.69 Zettatons) for New Era Naruto

Because Base New Era Naruto is 845.9 Exatons
The exact value is 5exatons
 
If I say your reaction speed is what gave you the edge in the match i'm implying we have similar combat speed but the reason you won is due to your far higher reaction speed, the profile is just showcasing his reaction speed is much higher.
Sure you could interpret it like that, could be worded more clearly tho so it isn't interpreted as Minato only keeping up due to FTG (especially as that's a widespread notion in the fandom)
The higher there used to be rel actually and it was coming from him being faster than his edo tensei state,
Ik, I'm just saying the combat speed justification is lacking
His hokage speed justification also comes from there, obito is just a bonus and honestly he should have sub-rel reactions. But high tiers don't currently have a speed value anymore so they just heavily upscale. I also think his hokage self should just flat out have the new high tiers speed rating and higher reactions when the upgrade comes
Obito should be Sub-Rel overall ngl

What exactly do you mean by "high tiers?"
 
Sure you could interpret it like that, could be worded more clearly tho so it isn't interpreted as Minato only keeping up due to FTG (especially as that's a widespread notion in the fandom)

Ik, I'm just saying the combat speed justification is lacking

Obito should be Sub-Rel overall ngl

What exactly do you mean by "high tiers?"
i agree that it should be worded better and that the justification is lacking. Tobirama complimenting his speed used to bepart among others. Don't know why it got removed.

So high tiers used to scale to rel before from madara reacting to tsunade kick during the transmission jutsu but it got scrapped. According to slayer there would be a speed revision later tackling high tiers speed
 
We lack any evidence suggesting he resisted the effects of Baryon Mode. In fact, the available information indicates the opposite.
The life-consuming nature of Baryon Mode applied equally to Kurama and Isshiki, from what I understood, but while Isshiki only lost less than 3 days of his life, Kurama easily lost hundreds of years. There clearly seems to be a distinction between the chakra that Naruto and Kurama are "merging" to create Baryon Mode and its life-consuming nature that results from it, which is what killed Kurama and would have killed Isshiki if Naruto had touched him more often, but while Kurama was losing most of his life at the same time that Naruto was touching Isshiki, Isshiki only lost a few hours of life, from what I understand.
 
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i agree that it should be worded better and that the justification is lacking. Tobirama complimenting his speed used to bepart among others. Don't know why it got removed.
Idk if you mean when he said Minato's Shunshin is faster than his or when he complimented his striking speed. For the former, I'm pretty sure movement speed was considered ass for a while, and for the latter, ig just complimenting isn't really quantifiable (the raws seem to also have a somewhat different meaning but I digress)
So high tiers used to scale to rel before from madara reacting to tsunade kick during the transmission jutsu but it got scrapped. According to slayer there would be a speed revision later tackling high tiers speed
Ah you mean the former Rel characters. Yes Minato will scale to the top tiers unless Slayer drastically changed his mind, as he said in his Minato vs Hashirama video that he thinks Minato is faster than Hashirama, Madara, and Tobirama (I don't agree with his idea that Ay and KCM1 Naruto are also that level though)
 
The life-consuming nature of Baryon Mode applied equally to Kurama and Isshiki, from what I understood, but while Isshiki only lost less than 3 days of his life, Kurama easily lost hundreds of years. There clearly seems to be a distinction between the chakra that Naruto and Kurama are "merging" to create Baryon Mode and its life-consuming nature that results from it, which is what killed Kurama and would have killed Isshiki if Naruto had touched him more often, but while Kurama was losing most of his life at the same time that Naruto was touching Isshiki, Isshiki only lost a few hours of life, from what I understand.
Well if you interpret it that way I can't fault you. The problem is we don't have enough information to back it up.
 
Yes.

However, it's nonsense that 20 hours of lifespan is all that Baryon Mode can destroy when Kurama's immortal lifespan is also destroyed by Baryon Mode.
Isshiki in the most literal sense’ life force is backed up by “countless of planets” according to his own words. Not only does he absorb the planet’s life itself, but all life on said planet. Hence why immortal kurama died but he didn’t
 
Obito isn't faster than Minato, Minato slowing down to make Obito think he could tag him and thus materialize is part of his stated plan
The bold is never stated or implied. As the scan shows, Minato states he is going for a Mutual Strike, but the other stuff isn’t even implied.
Obito would have caught him before he tagged with Rasengan had it not been for FTG (Sans Shunshin Obviously).
 
Btw, Tobirama’s statement of Minato being quick at Striking isn't in reference to Combat Speed. It’s in regards to him taking initiative as he says it as a response to Hiruzen stating Minato prepped the Battle Field for them.
 
Idk if you mean when he said Minato's Shunshin is faster than his or when he complimented his striking speed. For the former, I'm pretty sure movement speed was considered ass for a while, and for the latter, ig just complimenting isn't really quantifiable (the raws seem to also have a somewhat different meaning but I digress)

Ah you mean the former Rel characters. Yes Minato will scale to the top tiers unless Slayer drastically changed his mind, as he said in his Minato vs Hashirama video that he thinks Minato is faster than Hashirama, Madara, and Tobirama (I don't agree with his idea that Ay and KCM1 Naruto are also that level though)
I mean complimenting his striking speed


I don't have an issue with kcm1 naruto being there with mental amp tbh coz that particular point in the story was heavily implied to be a moment he attained speed rivalling his dad. Ay is iffy but he does have god feats on madara
 
The bold is never stated or implied.
It's not explicitly stated, but it absolutely is implied. Just look at what Minato says.
"My physical attacks don't affect his body...but he makes himself solid when he attacks me" - thus Minato has to ensure that Obito continues his offense and doesn't switch to defense
"I have to aim for a mutual strike, precisely timed" - it doesn't make sense for him to refer to precise timing if he's just gonna attack as fast as possible and try to outspeed Obito. This is obviously referring to him teleporting just when Obito materializes, which he'd only do if he thought he was gonna be able to touch Minato.
"He knows he's vulnerable when he attacks" - Minato here is taking into account that Obito won't just materialize willy nilly and will only do so if the situation permits it, which it obviously wouldn't if Minato's Rasengan reaches Obito before Obito's hand reaches Minato

It's also worth noting that Minato fully extends his arm to slam his Rasengan into Obito while Obito hardly seems to move at all (note the position of the flying kunai behind Obito in the first and second pages being almost identical despite the kunai and Obito moving in opposite directions, and the position of Obito's arm staying the same)
As the scan shows, Minato states he is going for a Mutual Strike, but the other stuff isn’t even implied.
Obito would have caught him before he tagged with Rasengan had it not been for FTG (Sans Shunshin Obviously).
Nah, he'd win
I mean complimenting his striking speed
(y)
I don't have an issue with kcm1 naruto being there with mental amp tbh coz that particular point in the story was heavily implied to be a moment he attained speed rivalling his dad.
I don't really think Naruto was mental amped but either way he was compared to Jonin Minato, not Hokage Minato
Ay is iffy but he does have god feats on madara
Jobbing Madara, who all the Kage have feats against
 
Wait a sec I just realized the intelligence and weaknesses revision accepted here never got applied 💀
 
I don't really think Naruto was mental amped but either way he was compared to Jonin Minato, not Hokage Minato

Jobbing Madara, who all the Kage have feats against
i definitely think naruto was mental amps. Sure I'm not trying to scale naruto to hokage minato
Raikage was the only one so fast madara had to block with susanoo and could not dodge. He even complemented his speed. The rest people he stated that he purposely got hit by their attacks just to show hashirama's face. He also made a note to say tsunade is slower than the raikage
 
Everyone who's ever had Madara's eyes + all of Madara's family vs Everyone who's had Hashirama's cells, except Madara and Obito.


Everyone's in the last key they were in while alive, but at full health.
 
It's not explicitly stated, but it absolutely is implied. Just look at what Minato says.
"My physical attacks don't affect his body...but he makes himself solid when he attacks me" - thus Minato has to ensure that Obito continues his offense and doesn't switch to defense
You are theory crafting here. This is just a statement of fact from Minato acknowledging the situation. Nothing is implied beyond that.
"I have to aim for a mutual strike, precisely timed" - it doesn't make sense for him to refer to precise timing if he's just gonna attack as fast as possible and try to outspeed Obito. This is obviously referring to him teleporting just when Obito materializes, which he'd only do if he thought he was gonna be able to touch Minato.
The thing you’re failing to acknowledge is that outside of FTG usage, Minato has failed to tag Obito in every instance he tries. This statement from Minato, again, is just a statement of fact. There is no implication carried that says Minato held back his speed. Remember, right after this statement, Minato acknowledges he “could” very well lose this exchange: “This is all going to be over for one of us in an instant!” — Which actually implies the opposite of what you’re saying.
"He knows he's vulnerable when he attacks" - Minato here is taking into account that Obito won't just materialize willy nilly and will only do so if the situation permits it, which it obviously wouldn't if Minato's Rasengan reaches Obito before Obito's hand reaches Minato
Again, you are theory crafting here. Nothing here is implied to mean he held back his speed. Nothing he showcased implies that either. Kishimoto is writing Minato to understand and recognize Obito’s abilities and fighting style, similarly Konan. Nothing more.
It's also worth noting that Minato fully extends his arm to slam his Rasengan into Obito while Obito hardly seems to move at all (note the position of the flying kunai behind Obito in the first and second pages being almost identical despite the kunai and Obito moving in opposite directions, and the position of Obito's arm staying the same)
This isn’t relevant. Obito had no need to extend his arm and he would’ve beat Minato in this specific exchange sans FTG, which is what is shown and implied. So yes, Obito’s Combat Speed and Movement Speed would be Relative to “Slightly” Faster than Minato’s based on this and using a scan where his arm is extend vs Obito, who didn’t require his arm to be extended and simply needed “touch”, is a bit disingenuous, don’t you think?
 
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