Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[KaydeeX]

Imma just leave it at that

---

How far do Deepa and Victor go against an akatsuki duo gauntlet?

I see deepa stopping at pain. Deepa has a slight AP advantage but Pain can close up the distance by deactivating other paths. Although, I don’t think pain has anything in his arsenal that can potentially crack deepa’s Armour, that’s where his chibaku tensei plays in
So pain can counter anything deepa throws at him and should have a valid wincon with his CT

As for Victor, well he’s pretty much faster than most of the Akatsuki if not all, with his regenerative ability factoring in he pretty much clears 80%
He stops at Itachi tho

 

[GTsek]

Your translation is misleading. A more proper translation would go as follows: “Light speed bullets produced from water emerge from the blind spot to gouge out the opponent”. But regardless, yes you can deduce either translation to be hyperbolic or literal depending on the context. It is not be default either. Again you are wrong.

I did it quickly just looking then I actually made a mistake. You are right. However, I think that a possible argument in favor of the speed of the technique is Kakashi's reaction, In the original he said "何て術のスピードだ" which would be something like (what a fast technique...) Only later does he mention that he didn't see Itachi's hand seals, however, in a separate sentence, he first praises the speed of the technique.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I did it quickly just looking then I actually made a mistake. You are right. However, I think that a possible argument in favor of the speed of the technique is Kakashi's reaction, In the original he said "何て術のスピードだ" which would be something like (what a fast technique...) Only later does he mention that he didn't see Itachi's hand seals, however, in a separate sentence, he first praises the speed of the technique.

I’m not arguing for or against it btw I was just making a stance on neutrality. But yeah I can see your point here

 

[GTsek]

I’m not arguing for or against it btw I was just making a stance on neutrality. But yeah I can see your point here

By the way, sorry to ask like this, but could you calculate Guy and Lee's feat against Haku? happens in chapter 522 they stop Haku's movement after he comes out through the mirror.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

By the way, sorry to ask like this, but could you calculate Guy and Lee's feat against Haku? happens in chapter 522 they stop Haku's movement after he comes out through the mirror.

Send me all the scans in dms

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

language is contextual, this applies to even stuff like Sekai the word everyone likes to use to dismiss something being planet level.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Speaking of Speed, what is the difference between Reaction/Movement Speed and Movement/Combat Speed?

Does the movement associated with Reaction Speed count towards movement speed? And is Movement Speed the same as Combat Speed?

I’m confused because Idk where Movement Speed fits into this:

1. Perception Speed
2. Reaction Speed
3. Combat Speed
4. Travel Speed
5. Flight Speed

 

[KaydeeX]

Speaking of Speed, what is the difference between Reaction/Movement Speed and Movement/Combat Speed?

Does the movement associated with Reaction Speed count towards movement speed? And is Movement Speed the same as Combat Speed?

I’m confused because Idk where Movement Speed fits into this:

1. Perception Speed
2. Reaction Speed
3. Combat Speed
4. Travel Speed
5. Flight Speed

Speed

Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[karo_senpaii]

If anyone ever argues with you that weapons don't scale to the user even after seeing zetsu statement kindly show the person Gemma using a toothpick to deflect back a kunai thrown at him

 

[SlendVeny]

If anyone ever argues with you that weapons don't scale to the user even after seeing zetsu statement kindly show the person Gemma using a toothpick to deflect back a kunai thrown at him

His toothpick is a Senbon.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Let's tackle them one by one.

1. Naruto doesn’t even have a scale putting him at Base to high jonin. The dude is irrelevant to your point.

Pushed the strongest Konoha jonin Kakashi to use the Sharingan alongside Sakura and then fought him for a night, and is good support for him. He's also stronger than the likes of Neji and Lee, who helped fight 30% Kisame, who's probably Low Kage level. Also he dodges Kabuto's kunai, and while Chiyo might not have been at FP, he blocked her punch, despite her being noted for having extraordinary taijutsu. He's definitely High Jonin level, and while he was fatigued from turning 4 Tails tbf, him dodging Kabuto was in this weakened state of his.

Sakura on the other hand at that point in the series is dependent solely on shunsin to keep up with others really due to her battle style of focusing chakra on her hands and legs. In essence 2 of them don't even qualify for high jonin in that state for speed. Take a look at other 2 there. Sai had no problem following Sasuke movement and was even the one that stopped his attack. Sai isn't even a high jonin. Yamato kept up with sasuke fully no problem. Only thing he said was sasuke was fast, that's all.

Not really? I don't recall her using Shunshin much if at all. Most of her "speed" training was focused on dodging, which requires you to perceive your opponent obviously. Also much of what I said about Naruto applies to her.

Considering Sai is above Base Naruto who's already the strongest of his peers, he absolutely should be. And Yamato is like a peak jonin. Also keep in mind that Base BoS Sasuke is like absolutely bottom of the barrel as far as Low Kages go, so stronger High Jonins reacting to him is not an issue at all.

2. He never blitzed jugo and suigetsu. He was just faster. Their shock was due to his intense bloodlust and being able to casually stop their attacks. Read suigetsu comment after the scan. Nothing about speed. Also stop categorising all akatsuki and all kage at same level. It just makes you more confused. If you didn't you won't have this confusion honestly.

The portrayal is clearly that of a blitz, they were about to attack, and then in literally one panel they were just completely wrapped around and Sasuke went between them out of nowhere. You don't need a sentence saying they were blitzed when the scene already conveys it very obviously. They even only have an exclamation mark after the snakes have fully wrapped around them.

I'm not having any "confusion," I'm just arguing that there is a large speed gap between High Jonin level and Kage level, both low and high in that latter range. And some Kage level characters can even blitz other Kage levels.

3. Almost blitzed Deidara? Right in your scan deidara foot is already in the air before sasuke can even get there. And specifically stated he was using shunshin.

Yes because Deidara only dodges after Sasuke's run most of the distance. I'm aware he was using Shunshin, that's a notable part of speed.

4. Not only has that Sakura been so injured she had lost use of one hand, so many injuries everywhere and was infected with poison so this is not a good scan but she did actually slightly dodge. It was going for her heart. She then got up and managed to save chino from sasori. Read the next few pages.
Sakura even seems to think like me considering the things she considered setting her apart from sasori was battle experience and skill.

Even this injured Sakura was able to keep up with the 3rd Kazekage puppet and Sasori's 100 Puppets, but his cord extension was a step above the rest in speed. Also no she was not infected by poison at this point, she had the antidote running through her system. Also Sakura making a very slight movement while Sasori shot his rope out dozens of meters is not the defeater you think it is. Sasori throwing himself doesn't have to be the same speed as this weapon.

5. Scan doesn't work

Asuma is looking at Kakuzu and then he rushes over to him and kicks him down without Asuma being able to do anything.

6. That's not a blitz. Not even close, they were weakened, he grabbed them. Also ino is definitely not a high jonin.

Bro, they were literally watching him straight on and he just grabbed them, that is by definition a blitz. Also Kakashi might've been fatigued, but I don't see much evidence for Ino and Choji. Regardless, fatigued Kakashi is Hidan level.

7. Not every question mark is a blitz. They were suprised as to where the sand came from dude come on. Also are we talking about the sand fast enough to block amaterasu? I'm sure you're not implying cee should be able to react to that speed right?

He would've been pretty surprised to see sand flying out from behind them if he saw it.

You're kind of agreeing with my point.

8. No evidence of mahiru being a high jonin. And minato is the fastest of the fastest even among kages. Bad example

He's a jonin with extreme speed (kinda makes sense since he counterattacked Chidori Kakashi who's jonin level even without the massive speed amp from Chidori).

Jonin Minato is not quite as godlike as Hokage Minato but sure he's still up there.

9. The healthy version of the guy that reacted to the impossible light speed kirin? Hell no , bad example. Dude is well into kage level. Bro actually whoops most of the kages.

1. That was a mental reaction
2. That was with the MS active, this is 3T Itachi who's much slower, in this state he's more like Sannin level+ so still well into Kage level but not just unparalleled like MS Itachi is

10. I think in the midst of the blinding light of jugo blast it might be hard to miss the guy that is the highest of the highest among kages in speed and not akatsuki level. It's funny coz 2 panels before jugo reacted to and blocked his attack.

Ay is the highest of the highest among the Kage in speed in V2, not V1. Sure I'll concede the light was a factor, but if they could comfortably keep up with his speed, that wouldn't be such a great factor they don't see him moving at all.

Barely reacted over a long distance sure. That's also something in support of my point. CM1 Jugo is relative to Suigetsu who was fighting Darui, yet with a huge amp from CM2 (to the point that he'd probably be Low Kage level), he still only reacted to V1 Ay at the last moment.

11. This is definitely not a blitz. You're throwing blitz around too much. Orochimaro came from behind, yamato was like "ah he's been followed". I see no blitz.

Orochimaru literally came from behind Kabuto who Yamato was looking right in the direction of, so Orochimaru would've been in his field of view as he was dashing to Kabuto, yet still only noticed him when he stopped moving.

From this discussion I've realised there are 2 things making you not see our point of view.

A.. You're categorising all jonins together. Don't do that at all. There is a reason I didn't say jonin but I said high jonin. I was specifically trying to highlight that among the jonin there are people that clearly stand out and those ones have no problem keeping up with akatsuki and not just random fodder like you bringing Base naruto or ino

There are plenty of other feats I could've included if I were talking about all jonin (like Base Jiraiya blitzing Ebisu). Everyone I mentioned getting blitzed either have some scaling or hype for being notably beyond the average jonin.

B. You're categorising all akatsuki together. Please take away obito, pain and itachi and go and put them among kages. They are akatsuki but clearly not just akatsuki level. Actually add kisame too.

Take away the Minato and Itachi feats if you want, doesn't change the rest of my points since most of the people I mentioned doing blitzing are Low-Mid Kage level, with a few High Kage levels in the mix.

C. Kage level ≠ akatsuki level. Sure at the low and high ends of the respective 2 there might be little to no difference but generally there is a difference. Coz tell me why you're expecting High jonin to keep up with one of the fastest kages in the series or expecting them to react with an healthy itachi who is faster than 90% of the current kages there.

Minato is one thing (as he is the fastest character I mentioned), but 3T Itachi is generally in the weight class as Kage, just fairly high in the range.

And finally in fiction 50 times speed difference is ridiculous. You can be blitzed by a 2 times speed difference. So saying lightning to light speed isn't a ridiculous difference doesn't make sense.

Depends on the verse. In Naruto, I'd argue a 10-20x speed difference isn't enough to blitz considering Sage Mode shenanigans but I assume you don't fw that and I'd rather not get into a whole other side argument.

I stand on my point. High jonin characters have no Problem at all keeping up with akatsuki level characters

I stand on my point too. Plenty of Akatsuki level characters are a blitz tier above High Jonin level.

Where did you find this quiz book?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1130893800907214888/1146336958105255936/Naruto_Quiz_Book.pdf?ex=6666a2fc&is=6665517c&hm=d7c8482ebbf434fe2f9ea2d959722f434ad5901b4d0d34cdf61fdcb0bc9e263a&

If anyone ever argues with you that weapons don't scale to the user even after seeing zetsu statement kindly show the person Gemma using a toothpick to deflect back a kunai thrown at him

What Zetsu statement? The one made in the Sasuke vs Itachi fight?

 

[Nierre]

I see deepa stopping at pain. Deepa has a slight AP advantage but Pain can close up the distance by deactivating other paths. Although, I don’t think pain has anything in his arsenal that can potentially crack deepa’s Armour, that’s where his chibaku tensei plays in
So pain can counter anything deepa throws at him and should have a valid wincon with his CT

As for Victor, well he’s pretty much faster than most of the Akatsuki if not all, with his regenerative ability factoring in he pretty much clears 80%
He stops at Itachi tho

Kaydee FRA

Victor easily 2v1 Konohamaru and Mugino, Konohamaru fought Jugo (Although definitely high diff fight), so he's prolly stopping at like Itachi. Pain is an issue but he has a massive speed and AP advantage scaling to Orochimaru in both avenues. I'd only say he stops at Itachi due to Sharingan and BIQ.

Deepa no sold Konohamaru's fireball Jutsu with his Carbon Armor which would also scale him around Jugo, and he scales even higher with his Diamond shit. His AP and Speed scales to Konohamaru ~ Jugo. He prolly stops at Pain just due his kit not being that great.

Saw someone say Sasori and all I can say is

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What’s Deepa’s armor doing against Sasori putting individual grains of iron sand into the cracks and poisoning him or Deidara using microscopic bombs to blow up his insides

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

What’s Deepa’s armor doing against Sasori putting individual grains of iron sand into the cracks and poisoning him or Deidara using microscopic bombs to blow up his insides

I an't no genius but I think he dies

 

[Nierre]

What’s Deepa’s armor doing against Sasori putting individual grains of iron sand into the cracks and poisoning him or Deidara using microscopic bombs to blow up his insides

he has no cracks in his armor

deidara nothing really, but he can just one-shot blitz Deidara before he even thinks of using those bombs, it's not a starting move for deidara

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

he has no cracks in his armor

deidara nothing really, but he can just one-shot blitz Deidara before he even thinks of using those bombs, it's not a starting move for deidara

Does he not have a visor? (I genuinely have no idea what he looks like)

 

[KaydeeX]

Does he not have a visor? (I genuinely have no idea what he looks like)

You ain’t real

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Apparently he does

 

[Nierre]

ohh when I meant carbon armor I meant his Carbon coating, where he just has full-body haki

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Does he not have a visor? (I genuinely have no idea what he looks like)

His skin is just super dense and if he gets pressed then he throws on some armor

 

[Testarossa002]

Deepa put a pause on Boruto's theme track

 

[karo_senpaii]

Pushed the strongest Konoha jonin Kakashi to use the Sharingan alongside Sakura and then fought him for a night, and is good support for him. He's also stronger than the likes of Neji and Lee, who helped fight 30% Kisame, who's probably Low Kage level. Also he dodges Kabuto's kunai, and while Chiyo might not have been at FP, he blocked her punch, despite her being noted for having extraordinary taijutsu. He's definitely High Jonin level, and while he was fatigued from turning 4 Tails tbf, him dodging Kabuto was in this weakened state of his.

Not really? I don't recall her using Shunshin much if at all. Most of her "speed" training was focused on dodging, which requires you to perceive your opponent obviously. Also much of what I said about Naruto applies to her.

Considering Sai is above Base Naruto who's already the strongest of his peers, he absolutely should be. And Yamato is like a peak jonin. Also keep in mind that Base BoS Sasuke is like absolutely bottom of the barrel as far as Low Kages go, so stronger High Jonins reacting to him is not an issue at all.

The portrayal is clearly that of a blitz, they were about to attack, and then in literally one panel they were just completely wrapped around and Sasuke went between them out of nowhere. You don't need a sentence saying they were blitzed when the scene already conveys it very obviously. They even only have an exclamation mark after the snakes have fully wrapped around them.

I'm not having any "confusion," I'm just arguing that there is a large speed gap between High Jonin level and Kage level, both low and high in that latter range. And some Kage level characters can even blitz other Kage levels.

Yes because Deidara only dodges after Sasuke's run most of the distance. I'm aware he was using Shunshin, that's a notable part of speed.

Even this injured Sakura was able to keep up with the 3rd Kazekage puppet and Sasori's 100 Puppets, but his cord extension was a step above the rest in speed. Also no she was not infected by poison at this point, she had the antidote running through her system. Also Sakura making a very slight movement while Sasori shot his rope out dozens of meters is not the defeater you think it is. Sasori throwing himself doesn't have to be the same speed as this weapon.

Asuma is looking at Kakuzu and then he rushes over to him and kicks him down without Asuma being able to do anything.

Bro, they were literally watching him straight on and he just grabbed them, that is by definition a blitz. Also Kakashi might've been fatigued, but I don't see much evidence for Ino and Choji. Regardless, fatigued Kakashi is Hidan level.

He would've been pretty surprised to see sand flying out from behind them if he saw it.

You're kind of agreeing with my point.

He's a jonin with extreme speed (kinda makes sense since he counterattacked Chidori Kakashi who's jonin level even without the massive speed amp from Chidori).

Jonin Minato is not quite as godlike as Hokage Minato but sure he's still up there.

1. That was a mental reaction
2. That was with the MS active, this is 3T Itachi who's much slower, in this state he's more like Sannin level+ so still well into Kage level but not just unparalleled like MS Itachi is

Ay is the highest of the highest among the Kage in speed in V2, not V1. Sure I'll concede the light was a factor, but if they could comfortably keep up with his speed, that wouldn't be such a great factor they don't see him moving at all.

Barely reacted over a long distance sure. That's also something in support of my point. CM1 Jugo is relative to Suigetsu who was fighting Darui, yet with a huge amp from CM2 (to the point that he'd probably be Low Kage level), he still only reacted to V1 Ay at the last moment.

Orochimaru literally came from behind Kabuto who Yamato was looking right in the direction of, so Orochimaru would've been in his field of view as he was dashing to Kabuto, yet still only noticed him when he stopped moving.

There are plenty of other feats I could've included if I were talking about all jonin (like Base Jiraiya blitzing Ebisu). Everyone I mentioned getting blitzed either have some scaling or hype for being notably beyond the average jonin.

Take away the Minato and Itachi feats if you want, doesn't change the rest of my points since most of the people I mentioned doing blitzing are Low-Mid Kage level, with a few High Kage levels in the mix.

Minato is one thing (as he is the fastest character I mentioned), but 3T Itachi is generally in the weight class as Kage, just fairly high in the range.

Depends on the verse. In Naruto, I'd argue a 10-20x speed difference isn't enough to blitz considering Sage Mode shenanigans but I assume you don't fw that and I'd rather not get into a whole other side argument.

I stand on my point too. Plenty of Akatsuki level characters are a blitz tier above High Jonin level.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1130893800907214888/1146336958105255936/Naruto_Quiz_Book.pdf?ex=6666a2fc&is=6665517c&hm=d7c8482ebbf434fe2f9ea2d959722f434ad5901b4d0d34cdf61fdcb0bc9e263a&

What Zetsu statement? The one made in the Sasuke vs Itachi fight?

1. Yeah no . Kakashi was definitely not going at his top speed. It's a training match, he's going to be holding back. Lee and neji are not his peers. They are his seniors . And this is in reference to strength and not just base naruto stats. With a rasengan and odama rasengan Yeah naruto is definitely top of his peers. That doesn’t do anything for speed. We go by feats and naruto base speed pales in comparison. Dodging a kunai doesn’t scale you to the person combat speed and thanks for acknowledging granny chiyo was not going all out.

Sakura whole fighting style is just another fancy Shunshin , focusing chakra on her feet to boost speed as well as her hands to boost strength. She just takes it to a whole new level. I guess sai is high jonin level I'd admit. And that's the point. Not all jonin are on that level but High ranking jonin are which is why they can easily react to sasuke.

2. You know shunshin blitzes characters with already comparable speed right? For deidara to even react it means he has no problem definitely with sasuke speed.

3. Like I said. Read the panels after for context. Suigetsu specifically commented on his bloodlust and how he was going to kill them. Nothing about speed. 2 people absorbed in battle are not going to be focused much on their surroundings. Of course sasuke suddenly coming in would have them suprised.

.4. actually no. Granny chiyo helped her. she didn't keep up just by herself. And you're just helping my point that a sakura actively using her combat style has no problem with speed. Okay let's say sasori has one attack cut above any other in speed. So? That doesn't negate the statement that generally sakura can keep up.

5. Come on man. A burnt up asuma with other injuries? It doesn't work like that

6. That just means they were weakened coz their ass had been whooped repeatedly already. And ino is not the good case to show a high jonin in combat. Maybe choji but definitely not ino.
A fatigued Kakashi being relative to hidan does not negate the point that a fully healthy Kakashi can fully keep up with kakuzu. It just more solidifies the point that high jonin have no problem with speed as regards akatsuki.
7. Not really. They were facing front and the sand came from back. They won't see it. And I'm not agreeing with you..I'm saying a sand with reaction faster than v1 is so high that high jonin not scaling to it is not a problem

8.He might be fast sure but that's still minato bro. The dude that was faster than ay? Can't blame the guy for not keeping up.

9. You can't scale sick itachi to healthy itachi. Simply take that itachi as stronger than his edo self. The dude could keep up with kcm1 naruto without shunshin. I believe i don't need to say further

10. explained further why you think v1 kage is just low kage level .

11. again that's a suprise not an "in the midst of battle thing" that's not a blitz. He could have even used Shunshin. There is just not enough evidence.

12. You may stand on your points but it doesn't change the fact that said jonin in several occasions kept up with akatsuki.

Also sage mode is an outright blitz. Both jiraiya and naruto blitzed bodies that were formerly keeping up with them

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Deidara's attacks are too slow and he would prob get taken out before he does anything meaningful.

Sasori could win but theres an equal chance he gets his back blown out of the Hiroko puppet by Deepa's compressed cubes.

 

[KaydeeX]

Deepa put a pause on Boruto's theme track

Why did he have to fake being hit like that just to crush his hopes
Bro’s real sadistic

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Can Deepa fly?

 

[Nierre]

nope

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah honestly, despite Deepa being stronger stat wise than say your average Akatsuki, I feel like he gets outhaxed by most save like Kakuzu Hidan Konan and maybe he can beat Kisame before he gets his chakra robbed.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Btw, I just want to point out that Kishimoto uses the “?!!” And its variants (?, ?!, ?!!, !?,!!?) when denoting the character didn’t know what happened. It’s been consistent since part 1.

So unless it’s outright stated, which Kishi sometimes does (5G Lee vs Gaara, Kakashi Blitzing T7 on Training Field, etc), he always uses the “?” When perception has been bypassed and the character doesn’t know what happened.

What I have noticed is that when Kishi uses “!!” and “!!!”, the characters still perceive fast movement, but not details in all cases.

Case In Point:
Madara perceived the fast movement of “someone” kicking the TSB back at him, but he didn’t recognize it was Naruto until after the action and Naruto was standing still.

I say this to say, Gaara didn’t “Perception Blitz” Cee.

Well… Depends on hiw you want to define perception blitzing.

 

[Nierre]

ykw I completely forgot about Kisame.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Zhongli vs Naruto (KCM2)

Location: Liyue SBA Zhongli Profile Naruto Profile For Naruto: For Zhongli: Who is taking this?

vsbattles.com

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Yeah honestly, despite Deepa being stronger stat wise than say your average Akatsuki, I feel like he gets outhaxed by most save like Kakuzu Hidan Konan and maybe he can beat Kisame before he gets his chakra robbed.

konan is ******** on him lol

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

the issue with the Akatuski members below Kisame, is their speed being dogshit. Deidara's explosions are slower than his flight speed. people like Akatsuchi can react and counter deidara's explosions point blank but werent even able to keep with deidara and Onoki's flight speed visually.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

konan is ******** on him lol

With what

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

With what

AP and suffocation

 

[KaydeeX]

AP and suffocation

Suffocate with what, shadowbokunohero

 

[Nierre]

don't remember how strong konan is ngl what are her feats outside of her prep?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Suffocate with what, shadowbokunohero

m̶o̶u̶t̶h̶ paper

 

[KaydeeX]

m̶o̶u̶t̶h̶ paper

Paper blossoms

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

She’s not harming Deepa and without prep he’s just gonna be too fast to get wrapped entirely by her paper, or he just breaks out tbh. Shadow is just a Konan glazer

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Suffocate with what, shadowbokunohero

m̶o̶u̶t̶h̶ paper