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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

I find it quite disconcerting that EMS Madara's Legged Susanoo is rated as 44,000 times stronger than Edo Madara's Legged Susanoo
 
MinatoSparkle said:
But I mean isn't MHS+ jonin based on upscaling from Kakuzu's False Darkness? That's a bigger problem imo, since Kakashi is much faster than most jonin and he was probably using Shunshin to get to his comrades as quickly as possible. Might've been Raikiri amped too if he already had it activated.
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We also have regular MHS based on Genin Neji scaling.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Kinda is given how high the bar is for LS characters, and he's not several times faster than Hebi Sasuke or Darui

We also can't assume that his arms were to his side

The problem is that there's no reason for the databook to refer to different values with the word lightning speed, so it having a range irl isn't very relevant. Idek if it having variable speed is widely known.

Bruh, tell me you're not serious 😭 SPSM Naruto is a genin, Minato being a jonin doesn't limit his strength to jonin level. He's even beyond Kage level.

I'm just saying Narutoverse lightning speed~Hebi Sasuke/False Darkness/Black Panther>>Jonin level

Is it from the anime or a movie? Doesn't really matter in that case.
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I think you need to remove this notion that akatsuki or people like hebi sasuke are so far above high level jonin that they would blitz them. In truth they are like relative in speed and they have feats to back them up. Some are even faster. What makes the akatsuki so unique and far above them is their techniques and jutsu in their disposal. There is nothing wrong with their speed being similar tbh.
The facts are kakashi as well as a good number of jonin can keep up with people like hebi sasuke and akatsuki members I speed with no problem. I'm pretty sure asuma had zero issues with speed fighting hidan and kakuzu. They just can't match the rest of their arsenal.

Also for that first statement the difference between sub rel and sol is over 50 times. Sub rel is definitely not a high bar for someone hyped to be so fast as to run and cut lightning as a kid
 
karo_senpaii said:
I think you need to remove this notion that akatsuki or people like hebi sasuke are so far above high level jonin that they would blitz them. In truth they are like relative in speed and they have feats to back them up. Some are even faster. What makes the akatsuki so unique and far above them is their techniques and jutsu in their disposal. There is nothing wrong with their speed being similar tbh.
The facts are kakashi as well as a good number of jonin can keep up with people like hebi sasuke and akatsuki members I speed with no problem. I'm pretty sure asuma had zero issues with speed fighting hidan and kakuzu. They just can't match the rest of their arsenal.

Also for that first statement the difference between sub rel and sol is over 50 times. Sub rel is definitely not a high bar for someone hyped to be so fast as to run and cut lightning as a kid
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This is kinda true. If someone wanted to rock with the Akatsuki off pure stats, they'd at least need to be able to wrestle a V2 Jinchuuriki bare-handed.
 
Testarossa002 said:
In a jerk off contest?
Click to expand...
Screenshot_2024-06-04_181841.png
 
SlendVeny said:
We also have regular MHS based on Genin Neji scaling.
Click to expand...
Based on the site stats sure
karo_senpaii said:
I think you need to remove this notion that akatsuki or people like hebi sasuke are so far above high level jonin that they would blitz them. In truth they are like relative in speed and they have feats to back them up. Some are even faster. What makes the akatsuki so unique and far above them is their techniques and jutsu in their disposal. There is nothing wrong with their speed being similar tbh.
Click to expand...
Base BoS Sasuke blitzed Naruto and Sakura, 3T Hebi Sasuke blitzed Suigetsu and Jugo (not just with Shunshin either since he wrapped them with snakes) and almost blitzed Deidara, Sasori blitzed Sakura, Kakuzu blitzed Asuma and in his merged state seemed to blitz Kakashi Ino and Choji, Gaara's sand perception blitzed Cee, Minato blitzed Mahiru, 3T Itachi blitzed Kakashi, no one seemed to see V1 Ay dashing away from Jugo's blasts, Armless Orochimaru blitzed Yamato, I could go on and on there are a ridiculous number of blitzes that Kage level characters perform on High Jonin level and higher characters.
karo_senpaii said:
The facts are kakashi as well as a good number of jonin can keep up with people like hebi sasuke and akatsuki members I speed with no problem. I'm pretty sure asuma had zero issues with speed fighting hidan and kakuzu. They just can't match the rest of their arsenal.
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Asuma is one of the strongest jonin and Hidan is the slowest Akatsuki member, not very analogous. And he couldn't even keep up with Base Kakuzu who I'd argue is the second slowest member.
karo_senpaii said:
Also for that first statement the difference between sub rel and sol is over 50 times. Sub rel is definitely not a high bar for someone hyped to be so fast as to run and cut lightning as a kid
Click to expand...
Considering how many speed gaps there are between Early Shippuden Kakashi and Kirin/KM0 Mifune/P1 Itachi, it kinda is. Also either way that doesn't change my point later in the comment about lightning speed.
 
Say, correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s something I’ve never understood:

Why isn’t 8th Gate Guy — at least with Night Guy — considered FTL for literally warping space with his mere speed?
 
Oreo166 said:
Say, correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s something I’ve never understood:

Why isn’t 8th Gate Guy — at least with Night Guy — considered FTL for literally warping space with his mere speed?
Click to expand...
1. Can you give me the scan where it says his speed caused the space to bend.
2. Also give me the calc that puts bending space at FTL.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
The databook implies the power is what bends space, but the Quiz Book kinda implies speed is the bigger factor so maybe it's both
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Well, the Quiz Book says, “Speed and Effort”.

Idk if that matters though.

Edit: Just reread it. There is no comma between, “Effort Enough”, so the reference isn’t in regard to speed nor does it draw an equivalence between Speed and the Effort that is bending space.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Well, the Quiz Book says, “Speed and Effort”.

Idk if that matters though.

Edit: Just reread it. There is no comma between, “Effort Enough”, so the reference isn’t in regard to speed nor does it draw an equivalence between Speed and the Effort that is bending space.
Click to expand...
You could read it as either speed and effort enough or speed and effort enough
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Based on the site stats sure

Base BoS Sasuke blitzed Naruto and Sakura, 3T Hebi Sasuke blitzed Suigetsu and Jugo (not just with Shunshin either since he wrapped them with snakes) and almost blitzed Deidara, Sasori blitzed Sakura, Kakuzu blitzed Asuma and in his merged state seemed to blitz Kakashi Ino and Choji, Gaara's sand perception blitzed Cee, Minato blitzed Mahiru, 3T Itachi blitzed Kakashi, no one seemed to see V1 Ay dashing away from Jugo's blasts, Armless Orochimaru blitzed Yamato, I could go on and on there are a ridiculous number of blitzes that Kage level characters perform on High Jonin level and higher characters.

Asuma is one of the strongest jonin and Hidan is the slowest Akatsuki member, not very analogous. And he couldn't even keep up with Base Kakuzu who I'd argue is the second slowest member.

Considering how many speed gaps there are between Early Shippuden Kakashi and Kirin/KM0 Mifune/P1 Itachi, it kinda is. Also either way that doesn't change my point later in the comment about lightning speed.
Click to expand...
Let's tackle them one by one.

1. Naruto doesn’t even have a scale putting him at Base to high jonin. The dude is irrelevant to your point. Sakura on the other hand at that point in the series is dependent solely on shunsin to keep up with others really due to her battle style of focusing chakra on her hands and legs. In essence 2 of them don't even qualify for high jonin in that state for speed. Take a look at other 2 there. Sai had no problem following Sasuke movement and was even the one that stopped his attack. Sai isn't even a high jonin. Yamato kept up with sasuke fully no problem. Only thing he said was sasuke was fast, that's all.

2. He never blitzed jugo and suigetsu. He was just faster. Their shock was due to his intense bloodlust and being able to casually stop their attacks. Read suigetsu comment after the scan. Nothing about speed. Also stop categorising all akatsuki and all kage at same level. It just makes you more confused. If you didn't you won't have this confusion honestly.

3. Almost blitzed Deidara? Right in your scan deidara foot is already in the air before sasuke can even get there. And specifically stated he was using shunshin.

4. Not only has that Sakura been so injured she had lost use of one hand, so many injuries everywhere and was infected with poison so this is not a good scan but she did actually slightly dodge. It was going for her heart. She then got up and managed to save chino from sasori. Read the next few pages.
Sakura even seems to think like me considering the things she considered setting her apart from sasori was battle experience and skill.

5. Scan doesn't work
6. That's not a blitz. Not even close, they were weakened, he grabbed them. Also ino is definitely not a high jonin.

7. Not every question mark is a blitz. They were suprised as to where the sand came from dude come on. Also are we talking about the sand fast enough to block amaterasu? I'm sure you're not implying cee should be able to react to that speed right?

8. No evidence of mahiru being a high jonin. And minato is the fastest of the fastest even among kages. Bad example

9. The healthy version of the guy that reacted to the impossible light speed kirin? Hell no , bad example. Dude is well into kage level. Bro actually whoops most of the kages.

10. I think in the midst of the blinding light of jugo blast it might be hard to miss the guy that is the highest of the highest among kages in speed and not akatsuki level. It's funny coz 2 panels before jugo reacted to and blocked his attack.

11. This is definitely not a blitz. You're throwing blitz around too much. Orochimaro came from behind, yamato was like "ah he's been followed". I see no blitz.

From this discussion I've realised there are 2 things making you not see our point of view.

A.. You're categorising all jonins together. Don't do that at all. There is a reason I didn't say jonin but I said high jonin. I was specifically trying to highlight that among the jonin there are people that clearly stand out and those ones have no problem keeping up with akatsuki and not just random fodder like you bringing Base naruto or ino

B. You're categorising all akatsuki together. Please take away obito, pain and itachi and go and put them among kages. They are akatsuki but clearly not just akatsuki level. Actually add kisame too.

C. Kage level ≠ akatsuki level. Sure at the low and high ends of the respective 2 there might be little to no difference but generally there is a difference. Coz tell me why you're expecting High jonin to keep up with one of the fastest kages in the series or expecting them to react with an healthy itachi who is faster than 90% of the current kages there.


And finally in fiction 50 times speed difference is ridiculous. You can be blitzed by a 2 times speed difference. So saying lightning to light speed isn't a ridiculous difference doesn't make sense.
I stand on my point. High jonin characters have no Problem at all keeping up with akatsuki level characters
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Well, the Quiz Book says, “Speed and Effort”.

Idk if that matters though.

Edit: Just reread it. There is no comma between, “Effort Enough”, so the reference isn’t in regard to speed nor does it draw an equivalence between Speed and the Effort that is bending space.
Click to expand...
MinatoSparkle said:
You could read it as either speed and effort enough or speed and effort enough
Click to expand...
Why Guy's speed would be FTL instead of just relativistic is my question. I thought bending space is done using Einstein's General Relativity theory. There's no FTL in that. Guy in theory would need huge amounts of inertial mass to replicate the effect that celestial bodies have on space-time. For that to happen, he needs to move at high speeds, or somehow increase his mass using his chakra or power or sumn. But at best it would be relativistic iirc.
 
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