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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

MinatoSparkle said:
I just rewatched the Naruto vs Pain fight and holy why is the part after Naruto get his hands stabbed so much better than before that
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Different animator and the pain arc actually had insane amount of issues production wise as the team was split between both the bleach and naruto movie at the time
 
V jump cover
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Deceived3596 said:
It also can interact with Raw Chakra and Susanoo; both of which are spiritually comprised. Especially Susanoo as they're explicitly stated to be one's soul given tangible form.
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Maybe this is just me - but I think that interacting with the Susano'o wouldn't count as Soul Manipulation in that sense. If the Susano'o is the soul given tangible form, then that doesn't mean that interacting with it is necessarily manipulating the soul itself.

To give an example, if Character A used Air Manipulation to solidify the air around him into a blade, and then Character B picked up that blade to wield it, I wouldn't say that Character B necessarily has Air Manipulation because of how he's interacting with tangible air. Unless it was shown that ordinary people couldn't touch it, etc.
 
Damage3245 said:
Maybe this is just me - but I think that interacting with the Susano'o wouldn't count as Soul Manipulation in that sense. If the Susano'o is the soul given tangible form, then that doesn't mean that interacting with it is necessarily manipulating the soul itself.

To give an example, if Character A used Air Manipulation to solidify the air around him into a blade, and then Character B picked up that blade to wield it, I wouldn't say that Character B necessarily has Air Manipulation because of how he's interacting with tangible air. Unless it was shown that ordinary people couldn't touch it, etc.
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It doesn't necessarily mean they're manipulating, or more accurately, affecting the soul itself in any meaningful way to gain Soul Manipulation. I can understand that interpretation, but I wasn't making a necessary claim here. I merely said that interacting with the Susanoo is, under my opinion, as the post is about what I believe to be true, is evidence for my claim because of the indication of it being the projection of one's soul.

I also understand what you're trying to convey here, I just don't agree with the example used because Air itself is already physical before being condensed into something that can be interacted with by anyone else, regardless of them preemptively possessing the ability or not. While that's not the case here; Susanoo, if assumed true to be the projection of one's soul given "tangible form", doesn't then inherently presume the Susanoo is constructed of anything physical, as tangibility isn't inherently tied to just material objects alone, within fiction, as proven by the existence of Soul Manipulation itself - an ability that allows someone to tangibility interact with structures that are normally intangible. Because of this, I believe we can reach logically sound conclusions on either side as it's up to our own interpretation of the statement and how it meshes with how we interpret the series.

Basically, I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, I just believe the other interpretation is more likely to be true.
 
Yeah, I get what you're saying there. It makes sense to me.

Just that also, I don't think we can assume that the Susano'o is normally intangible. The main purpose of the Susano'o is to be defensive shield and it interacts with the physical world. Even ordinary objects - that don't have the inherent property of manipulating souls - should be able to interact with the Susano'o. Danzo's Kunai for example.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
You don’t see glowing effects each time chakra is applied, you can have a weapon fully enhanced with chakra and not give off any aura as seen here (check bottom left)
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It's possible that's a Boruto art style choice.

But aside from that; do you think that Danzo's Kunai would've slipped right through the Susano'o and hit Sasuke if he didn't enhance his Kunai with chakra?
 
Damage3245 said:
It's possible that's a Boruto art style choice.

But aside from that; do you think that Danzo's Kunai would've slipped right through the Susano'o and hit Sasuke if he didn't enhance his Kunai with chakra?
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Damage you cannot be serious, chakra being applied without showing aura (unless for special natures) has been consistent throughout the entire series, it’s not an art style choice when chakra sparks are shown separately when he uses lasers 😭
IMG_3649.jpg


IMG_3650.jpg



I do not wish to comment on the overall discussion regarding the soul manip stuff, i just didn’t agree with your specific example, as for would it pass through I don’t know, maybe it can maybe it can’t, I can’t think of a situation where non amped kunai hasn’t passed through susanos, however Itachi’s spirit weapons were stated directly to be spiritual in its properties and they’re extensions of the susano so I’m not opposed to thinking they can be spiritual, however if such examples of non amped weaponry affecting susanos exist then they wouldn’t qualify for being abstract structures, I doubt such evidence exists given that susano showcases tend to be rare
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Black Clover got confirmed by its writer to be inspired by Naruto LFG

Another inspo in Naruto’s giant bag
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aswell as One piece, bleach, Dragon ball and YYH. not to add it was pretty obvious from the start
can’t say it’s something to be proud of
 
KaydeeX said:
aswell as One piece, bleach, Dragon ball and YYH. not to add it was pretty obvious from the start
can’t say it’s something to be proud of
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Inspiring the next generation of manga is most certainly something to be proud of even if the series being inspired isn’t that great and naturally it was obvious but some people loved to be in denial since the writer hasn’t “directly” stated that

And now that’s gone too, Kishi probably has the largest bag when it comes to inspiring other series after Togashi and Toriyama when counting the last 20 years
 
Deceived3596 said:
It's accepted on Hagoromo's profile, and anyone else who utilizes TSO or Susanoo, who has an updated profile; It not being on the verse page is because a blog specifically for it hasn't been made yet. Not that the energy isn't accepted as having this component with it.
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Claiming something is accepted on Hags own profile isn't proof though for the whole verse and doesn't use any evidence within the manga or databook.
Deceived3596 said:
In the explanation of Soul Manipulation, one of the qualifiers for the ability is "being able to project the power of one's soul outward." By "power" they're referencing spiritual energy sources, which are normally derived from one's soul. Chakra, and subsequently anything constructed off it (especially when utilizing the spiritual portion of the energy system) falls under this category without issue.
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And here we go again with the nominal fallacy. How is gaining "spiritual energy" through training and experience any way involved with soul manipulation? Cause you are not tampering or messing with anyone's soul with this. Also, you haven't connected the dots while relaying on hyperbole and speculation of Dan to try and get this point across.
Deceived3596 said:
Stuff like TSO also fall under "the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others" as it can interact with Susanoo's explicitly, while possessing indicative evidence of it being able to interact with Dan's spiritual body while he's utilizing his Ninjutsu.
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Ok show that it can interact with ones soul. It can interact with susanoo cause its a construct of chakra not a construct of the soul. Are the rocks that land on susanoo or weapons now soul manip cause they can interact with susanoo?
Deceived3596 said:
Training and Experience itself doesn't, but the energy specifically created in Naruto that is described as being / is shown as spiritual, does. It's an in-verse mechanic, so deferring to the Soul Manipulation page as a defeater, without also incorporating that context misses out on what actually matters here, which is the energy developed. You're claiming that spiritual and mental energies within Naruto aren't actually spiritual, but are rather "Training and Experience" energies, which is completely nonsensical and logically fallacious as I explained previously.
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Good we agree on something that training and experience do not equate to soul manip but you keep trying to say it is though. Specific jutsu like the rinnagan and death reaper seal being soul manip does not mean everything chakra related is soul manip. If you believe its nonsensical and shit send a letter to Kishi who stated in that the spiritual/mental energy is from training and experience not from the soul which you keep trying to falsely push.
Deceived3596 said:
I gave you an explanation before and now, and you still won't accept it because you have a fundamental disagreement with Chakra being spiritual in any meaningful capacity. It's not a fault of me being unconvincing or not providing any explanation, but you not accepting the explanations I give.
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Cause your explanation relies on lies, hyperbole, and speculation?
Deceived3596 said:
You believe the statement is hyperbolic, but still haven't provided sufficient reasoning as to why it is. Just giving me the statement without explaining why it's hyperbolic doesn't provide any validity or soundness to your claim. I could just equally assume it's valid and we would have the same level of evidence supporting our interpretation.
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Provide evidence get told I haven't provided evidence? Susanoo is statement is metaphorical and hyperbolic as we see when it cant destroy all of the enemies and that its a chakra construct manifested from the eyes. And we also can see that anything and everything can interact with it without soul manip.
Deceived3596 said:
You're now committing a False Equivalence Fallacy by equating the weakness TSO have to Ninjutsu enhanced with Nature Energy, with the validity of the statement about it being capable of erasing all Ninjutsu. It's a flawed rationale because Sage Energy is explicitly stated to be a weakness to TSO, so it's automatically exempt from the statement, while Dan's Ninjutsu has no such statement or even slight implication outside of speculation, so it isn't.
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Makes claim that it can neg all ninjutsu, TSO proceed to not be able to neg all ninjutsu proving the claim false. If sage jutsu which are classified as ninjutsu are exempt from this that means the statement is now false or at least conditional on what it can and cannot neg and you should provide evidence on why it should be able to neg dans soul with proof which you haven't provided other than some vibes.
Deceived3596 said:
I've already provided enough rationale to support the conclusion of my claim without compromising its logical structure, so it's a sound proposition. Your counter retort was fallacious, it possesses an unsound premise within it, so it isn't a sound proposition. Until you provide at least a comparative level of soundness to your claim, your argument doesn't logically hold.
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Logically hold? Brother you haven't provided an ounce of evidence for any of your claims while going off of lies, hyperbole, and falsehoods.
Deceived3596 said:
I do. My evidence is the statement about TSO being able to nullify all Ninjutsu, which is caused by the orb interacting with a particular Ninjutsu. Dan's spiritual body technique is described as "the user's own soul is detached from the body and becomes a ghost" and is explicitly classified as a Ninjutsu. So, we can logically deduce here by a process of Abductive Reasoning that the most likely conclusion we can reach with the given evidence is that TSO can interact with Dan because his technique is Ninjutsu-based, and TSO can interact with Ninjutsu, blanketly.
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As stated above we know that TSO negging stuff is conditional. Just cause Dan's technique is called a ninjutsu does not mean TSO can interact with his soul unless you have evidence of TSO having soul manipulation. Again you have failed to provide any concreated evidence on this and your claim of TSO begging everything is contradicted by the manga and source material itself.
Deceived3596 said:
It's a very simple and logically sound conclusion to reach.
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I spot to lies in this, there's nothing simple about your argument and logical about it. It requires using hyperbole for susanoo and speculation about Dan, awhile ignoring what makes up chakra which is training and experience.

I think I got everything, don't care enough to make sure. We can agree to disagree if you want till a CRT comes out or continue this.
 
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