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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

UchihaSlayer96 said:
Well, I already gave you the only 3 productive courses of actions you can take. Asking about it every other week isn't gonna achieve anything.
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Sue me I forgot and thought I asked about something else. You think I'm gonna care enough to remember what I ask?
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Thanks ig
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🗿

Btw if anyone wants I have up to chapter 496 when soul or spirt gets mentioned in the raw and english official. Still adding more though.
 
Gokukid2005 said:
ug030roma3a71.jpg
#Incoming
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wtf I love The Shredder
 
KingogKings777 said:
Nominal Fallacy, we know the components of so-called spiritual energy in the chakra and it has nothing to do with the soul. The so-called spiritual energy is made of training and experience which has nothing to do with soul manipulation. Susanoo? Do you mean the hyperbole to justify something that isn't there or do you mean the spirit weapons?
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Me committing a Nominal Fallacy implies I'm asserting that merely providing something a name innately explains what it is. I'm not doing that. What I'm doing is relaying already accepted information, by explaining the evidence through the justifications provided. So this is a complete misinterpretation of what I asserted in my post.

It's stated that Training and Experience facilitates the development of spiritual and mental energies, not that they're key components that comprise said spiritual and mental energies. It's tantamount to assuming cells construct human thoughts, and thus thoughts aren't mind-dependent, immaterial properties, because cells are physical particles that develop and constitute the structures needed for thoughts to occur. You're committing a Compositional Fallacy by doing this - by inferring the validity of Training and Experience causing the development of mental and spiritual energies, You then incorrectly assume Training and Experience wholly constructs mental and spiritual energies, when it doesn't as sufficiently explained above.

Now this is a Nominal Fallacy. By asserting it's hyperbolic, you presume that it fully explains why it's hyperbolic, despite the fact that it is not accepted on this site nor sufficiently explained in your post.
KingogKings777 said:
We don't have any direct evidence at all for this though, and wouldn't this be like trying to grant Soul Manipulation from Minato's soul arms getting sent back to the pure land?
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We objectively do have direct evidence of this being true. It's explicitly stated that TSO can erase all Ninjutsu and Dan's spiritual body technique is explicitly described as a Ninjutsu in the databooks. Asserting any other conclusion requires us to explain that "all" Ninjutsu doesn't actually encompass "all" Ninjutsu, which hasn't been done yet. Actually explain why Dan's spiritual body technique wouldn't get interacted with and erased by TSO?

It wouldn't because the argument for Minato having his spiritual body returned back into the Pure Lands is contextualized to a mechanic with the Edo Tensei, which is something Dan isn't subjected to because his Ninjutsu doesn't tie his spiritual body to his physical one through a Ninjutsu. It rather simply, astrally projects himself. It would require the TSO to actually hit his spiritual form to nullify the Ninjutsu that is allowing him to astrally project himself in the first place.
 
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Deceived3596 said:
Me committing a Nominal Fallacy implies I'm asserting that merely providing something a name innately explains what it is. I'm not doing that. What I'm doing is relaying already accepted information, by explaining the evidence through the justifications provided. So this is a complete misinterpretation of what I asserted in my post.

It's stated that Training and Experience facilitates the development of spiritual and mental energies, not that they're key components that comprise said spiritual and mental energies. It's tantamount to assuming cells construct human thoughts, and thus thoughts aren't mind-dependent properties, because cells fallacitate the structures needed for thoughts to occur. You're committing a Compositional Fallacy by doing this - by inferring the validity of Training and Experience causing the development of mental and spiritual energies, You incorrectly assume Training and Experience wholly constructs mental and spiritual energies, when it doesn't as sufficiently explained above.

Now this is a Nominal Fallacy. By asserting it's hyperbolic, you presume that it fully explains why it's hyperbolic, despite the fact that it is not accepted on this site nor sufficiently explained in your post.

We objectively do have direct evidence of this being true. It's explicitly stated that TSO can erase all Ninjutsu and Dan's spiritual body technique is explicitly described as a Ninjutsu in the databooks. Asserting any other conclusion requires us to explain that "all" Ninjutsu doesn't actually encompass "all" Ninjutsu, which hasn't be done yet. Actually explain why Dan's spiritual body technique wouldn't get interacted with and erased by TSO?

It wouldn't because the argument for Minato having his spiritual body returned back into the Pure Lands is contextualized to a mechanic with the Edo Tensei, which is something Dan isn't subjected to because his Ninjutsu doesn't tie his spiritual body to his physical one through a Ninjutsu. It rather simply, astrally projects himself. It would require the TSO to actually hit his spiritual form to nullify the Ninjutsu that is allowing him to astrally project himself in the first place.
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Holy Cookkk 🫃
 
Deceived3596 said:
Me committing a Nominal Fallacy implies I'm asserting that merely providing something a name innately explains what it is. I'm not doing that. What I'm doing is relaying already accepted information, by explaining the evidence through the justifications provided. So this is a complete misinterpretation of what I asserted in my post.

It's stated that Training and Experience facilitates the development of spiritual and mental energies, not that they're key components that comprise said spiritual and mental energies. It's tantamount to assuming cells construct human thoughts, and thus thoughts aren't mind-dependent, immaterial properties, because cells are physical particles that fallacitate the structures needed for thoughts to occur. You're committing a Compositional Fallacy by doing this - by inferring the validity of Training and Experience causing the development of mental and spiritual energies, You incorrectly assume Training and Experience wholly constructs mental and spiritual energies, when it doesn't as sufficiently explained above.

Now this is a Nominal Fallacy. By asserting it's hyperbolic, you presume that it fully explains why it's hyperbolic, despite the fact that it is not accepted on this site nor sufficiently explained in your post.
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icel this got my head hurting
 
Deceived3596 said:
Me committing a Nominal Fallacy implies I'm asserting that merely providing something a name innately explains what it is. I'm not doing that. What I'm doing is relaying already accepted information, by explaining the evidence through the justifications provided. So this is a complete misinterpretation of what I asserted in my post.

It's stated that Training and Experience facilitates the development of spiritual and mental energies, not that they're key components that comprise said spiritual and mental energies. It's tantamount to assuming cells construct human thoughts, and thus thoughts aren't mind-dependent, immaterial properties, because cells are physical particles that develop and constitute the structures needed for thoughts to occur. You're committing a Compositional Fallacy by doing this - by inferring the validity of Training and Experience causing the development of mental and spiritual energies, You then incorrectly assume Training and Experience wholly constructs mental and spiritual energies, when it doesn't as sufficiently explained above.

Now this is a Nominal Fallacy. By asserting it's hyperbolic, you presume that it fully explains why it's hyperbolic, despite the fact that it is not accepted on this site nor sufficiently explained in your post.

We objectively do have direct evidence of this being true. It's explicitly stated that TSO can erase all Ninjutsu and Dan's spiritual body technique is explicitly described as a Ninjutsu in the databooks. Asserting any other conclusion requires us to explain that "all" Ninjutsu doesn't actually encompass "all" Ninjutsu, which hasn't been done yet. Actually explain why Dan's spiritual body technique wouldn't get interacted with and erased by TSO?

It wouldn't because the argument for Minato having his spiritual body returned back into the Pure Lands is contextualized to a mechanic with the Edo Tensei, which is something Dan isn't subjected to because his Ninjutsu doesn't tie his spiritual body to his physical one through a Ninjutsu. It rather simply, astrally projects himself. It would require the TSO to actually hit his spiritual form to nullify the Ninjutsu that is allowing him to astrally project himself in the first place.
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Wow
IMG_3633.jpg
 
Deceived3596 said:
Me committing a Nominal Fallacy implies I'm asserting that merely providing something a name innately explains what it is. I'm not doing that. What I'm doing is relaying already accepted information, by explaining the evidence through the justifications provided. So this is a complete misinterpretation of what I asserted in my post.
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Where is this accepted cause I don't see it on the verse page. All I see is this one The Mechanics of Chakra Enhancement.
Deceived3596 said:
It's stated that Training and Experience facilitates the development of spiritual and mental energies, not that they're key components that comprise said spiritual and mental energies. It's tantamount to assuming cells construct human thoughts, and thus thoughts aren't mind-dependent, immaterial properties, because cells are physical particles that develop and constitute the structures needed for thoughts to occur. You're committing a Compositional Fallacy by doing this - by inferring the validity of Training and Experience causing the development of mental and spiritual energies, You then incorrectly assume Training and Experience wholly constructs mental and spiritual energies, when it doesn't as sufficiently explained above.
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As stated above you didn't explain anything, you just said it's accepted. None of what you said checks out for what the site uses for soul manipulation which is the following.
Soul Manipulation is the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others. This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications.
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Training and experience do not correlate with the above definition the site uses at all. What are the key components that create said spiritual and mental energies? Since all that is listed for us in the databook and manga is Training and Experience which as shown above have nothing to do with soul manipulation. All you have is speculation here to try and prove a false point.
Deceived3596 said:
Now this is a Nominal Fallacy. By asserting it's hyperbolic, you presume that it fully explains why it's hyperbolic, despite the fact that it is not accepted on this site nor sufficiently explained in your post.
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Wow just like someone else here who fails to explain soul manipulation = training and experience while resorting to "it's accepted". But hey its like how Sasuke's Susanoo defeated all the enemies at the kage summit when he used it already proving the claim "a formidable-looking warrior whose rampaging soul will not settle down until it has destroyed all enemies before him." false.
Deceived3596 said:
We objectively do have direct evidence of this being true. It's explicitly stated that TSO can erase all Ninjutsu and Dan's spiritual body technique is explicitly described as a Ninjutsu in the databooks. Asserting any other conclusion requires us to explain that "all" Ninjutsu doesn't actually encompass "all" Ninjutsu, which hasn't been done yet. Actually explain why Dan's spiritual body technique wouldn't get interacted with and erased by TSO?
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Wait so it negs all ninjutsu? The same that can't erase sage jutsu that's classified as ninjutsu too? That claim is already false. Why not provide evidence for TSB affecting the soul, to begin with since we already know it can't neg all ninjutsu now and that there is no evidence of it interacting with souls too so you just have more speculation on your end.
Deceived3596 said:
It wouldn't because the argument for Minato having his spiritual body returned back into the Pure Lands is contextualized to a mechanic with the Edo Tensei, which is something Dan isn't subjected to because his Ninjutsu doesn't tie his spiritual body to his physical one through a Ninjutsu. It rather simply, astrally projects himself. It would require the TSO to actually hit his spiritual form to nullify the Ninjutsu that is allowing him to astrally project himself in the first place.
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So do we have any evidence of TSO being able to interact with astral projects or souls to assume it would be able to neg Dan's soul?
 
KingogKings777 said:
Where is this accepted cause I don't see it on the verse page. All I see is this one The Mechanics of Chakra Enhancement.

As stated above you didn't explain anything, you just said it's accepted. None of what you said checks out for what the site uses for soul manipulation which is the following.

Training and experience do not correlate with the above definition the site uses at all. What are the key components that create said spiritual and mental energies? Since all that is listed for us in the databook and manga is Training and Experience which as shown above have nothing to do with soul manipulation. All you have is speculation here to try and prove a false point.

Wow just like someone else here who fails to explain soul manipulation = training and experience while resorting to "it's accepted". But hey its like how Sasuke's Susanoo defeated all the enemies at the kage summit when he used it already proving the claim "a formidable-looking warrior whose rampaging soul will not settle down until it has destroyed all enemies before him." false.

Wait so it negs all ninjutsu? The same that can't erase sage jutsu that's classified as ninjutsu too? That claim is already false. Why not provide evidence for TSB affecting the soul, to begin with since we already know it can't neg all ninjutsu now and that there is no evidence of it interacting with souls too so you just have more speculation on your end.

So do we have any evidence of TSO being able to interact with astral projects or souls to assume it would be able to neg Dan's soul?
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Oh brother the ignorance
 
KingogKings777 said:
Where is this accepted cause I don't see it on the verse page. All I see is this one The Mechanics of Chakra Enhancement.
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It's accepted on Hagoromo's profile, and anyone else who utilizes TSO or Susanoo, who has an updated profile; It not being on the verse page is because a blog specifically for it hasn't been made yet. Not that the energy isn't accepted as having this component with it.

KingogKings777 said:
As stated above you didn't explain anything, you just said it's accepted. None of what you said checks out for what the site uses for soul manipulation which is the following.

Training and experience do not correlate with the above definition the site uses at all. What are the key components that create said spiritual and mental energies? Since all that is listed for us in the databook and manga is Training and Experience which as shown above have nothing to do with soul manipulation. All you have is speculation here to try and prove a false point.
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In the explanation of Soul Manipulation, one of the qualifiers for the ability is "being able to project the power of one's soul outward." By "power" they're referencing spiritual energy sources, which are normally derived from one's soul. Chakra, and subsequently anything constructed off it (especially when utilizing the spiritual portion of the energy system) falls under this category without issue. Stuff like TSO also fall under "the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others" as it can interact with Susanoo's explicitly, while possessing indicative evidence of it being able to interact with Dan's spiritual body while he's utilizing his Ninjutsu.

Training and Experience itself doesn't, but the energy specifically created in Naruto that is described as being / is shown as spiritual, does. It's an in-verse mechanic, so deferring to the Soul Manipulation page as a defeater, without also incorporating that context misses out on what actually matters here, which is the energy developed. You're claiming that spiritual and mental energies within Naruto aren't actually spiritual, but are rather "Training and Experience" energies, which is completely nonsensical and logically fallacious as I explained previously.

KingogKings777 said:
Wow just like someone else here who fails to explain soul manipulation = training and experience while resorting to "it's accepted". But hey its like how Sasuke's Susanoo defeated all the enemies at the kage summit when he used it already proving the claim "a formidable-looking warrior whose rampaging soul will not settle down until it has destroyed all enemies before him." false.
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I gave you an explanation before and now, and you still won't accept it because you have a fundamental disagreement with Chakra being spiritual in any meaningful capacity. It's not a fault of me being unconvincing or not providing any explanation, but you not accepting the explanations I give.

You believe the statement is hyperbolic, but still haven't provided sufficient reasoning as to why it is. Just giving me the statement without explaining why it's hyperbolic doesn't provide any validity or soundness to your claim. I could just equally assume it's valid and we would have the same level of evidence supporting our interpretation.

KingogKings777 said:
Wait so it negs all ninjutsu? The same that can't erase sage jutsu that's classified as ninjutsu too? That claim is already false. Why not provide evidence for TSB affecting the soul, to begin with since we already know it can't neg all ninjutsu now and that there is no evidence of it interacting with souls too so you just have more speculation on your end.
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You're now committing a False Equivalence Fallacy by equating the weakness TSO have to Ninjutsu enhanced with Nature Energy, with the validity of the statement about it being capable of erasing all Ninjutsu. It's a flawed rationale because Sage Energy is explicitly stated to be a weakness to TSO, so it's automatically exempt from the statement, while Dan's Ninjutsu has no such statement or even slight implication outside of speculation, so it isn't.

I've already provided enough rationale to support the conclusion of my claim without compromising its logical structure, so it's a sound proposition. Your counter retort was fallacious, it possesses an unsound premise within it, so it isn't a sound proposition. Until you provide at least a comparative level of soundness to your claim, your argument doesn't logically hold.

KingogKings777 said:
So do we have any evidence of TSO being able to interact with astral projects or souls to assume it would be able to neg Dan's soul?
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I do. My evidence is the statement about TSO being able to nullify all Ninjutsu, which is caused by the orb interacting with a particular Ninjutsu. Dan's spiritual body technique is described as "the user's own soul is detached from the body and becomes a ghost" and is explicitly classified as a Ninjutsu. So, we can logically deduce here by a process of Abductive Reasoning that the most likely conclusion we can reach with the given evidence is that TSO can interact with Dan because his technique is Ninjutsu-based, and TSO can interact with Ninjutsu, blanketly.

It's a very simple and logically sound conclusion to reach.
 
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