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Naruto: Sub-Relativistic Upgrade

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Wrath_Of_Itachi

Wrath_Of_Itachi

5,375
1,658
This calc has been accepted by two calc members, which puts Sasuke's speed at Mach 19K. This thread is to discuss who scales to this feat, and whether or not this feat is an outlier.


I believe that this feat should not be an outlier considering we have multiple calcs by characters inferior to Sasuke that range from Mach 2-3.7K.


This would scale to: Base Naruto (Pain Fight), Sage Mode, KCM, and Bijuu Mode, Taka Sasuke, and Kage Summit Sasuke, Byakugou and New Era Sakura, Kakashi (Pain arc and above), Yamato, Sai (War Arc and New Era), Team 8, Team 10, Asuma, Team Guy, Might Guy, Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato (All Forms), Tsunade, Mei Terumi, Raikage, Onoki, A (Third Raikage), Darui, Muu, Rasa, Orochimaru, Sage Kabuto, Karin, Suigetsu, Shin Uchiha, Obito, Deidara, Kisame, Itachi, All Jinchuriki, Madara, Danzo, Jiraiya, Kankuro (War Arc), Temari (War Arc), Kinkaku, Ginkaku, Hanzo, Mifune. These are all of the characters I believe should scale.
 
Could someone post a picture of Sasuke actually dodging the attack?
 
Calcs can be mathematically correct while still being based on incorrect info.

A weakened, exhausted Sasuke having a better speed feat than 100% of the verse up to that point seems worth examining a bit more, right?
 
....we literally got other calcs that scale above Sasuke damage.

If your saying this is an outlier it's definitely not lol.

Code: 
Fortunately we got knowledgeable calc members who are Naruto fans to evaluate the cal so the information isn't wrong

Also this calc is old. The events of it were looked at like a year or two ago. This is jsut a newer version of the old Kirin calc anyway
 
I explained why Sasuke had dodge on the blog. Currently and with the New Generation, there are feats Mach 2500 ~ 4000.
Although they are much stronger than Part 1 of the Manga, any of them are extremely weak and slow compared to Sasuke Hebi and especially Itachi ...

The fact that they are tired is irrelevant ... I do not remember having rules saying to find out something of the genre (honestly). If yes, then that's ok, I believe that the calculation can not be used ......
If there are no rules, there is nothing much to say. Sasuke barely resisted standing against Deidara, reacted to his explosion with various moves and etc, then it would not be the first time ...

I do not think anything of the sort is relevant, it's similar to Erza's.
 
I said 'up to that point', AstralKing7.

I am aware of better speed calcs that come later in the series, but those are performed by much, much more powerful characters.

At this point in the series the best speed feat is the Mach 3K feat by Pain, right? But base Sasuke is apparently over 6 times faster than that despite being exhausted?
 
Sarada and cia, are not much faster, even Naruto Base. And they have feats greater than Kakashi x Kakuzu. Not to say they're faster, right?

Guy is just said supersonic speed in the databook ... Let nerf he because of this? No ... It's normal to have stronger characters, to have feats slower or shorter than the other. It will simply escalate to that.
 
Damage3245 said:
I said 'up to that point', AstralKing7.

I am aware of better speed calcs that come later in the series, but those are performed by much, much more powerful characters.

At this point in the series the best speed feat is the Mach 3K feat by Pain, right? But base Sasuke is apparently over 6 times faster than that despite being exhausted?
Click to expand...

There are better feats but outliers which is why we don't use them. Itachi himself has a feat which we can't use because it's an outlier, sick Itachi at thatPlus Sasuke isn't even a regular ninja; he is already above elite Jonins.


Also pain was tired if your tryna use exhaustion as a reason to say we can't use the calc. Pain is way faster healthy compared to when he dodged Narutos FRS
 
Who has the Mach 4k? If it was a Boruto Generation Genin that has a 4K then yeah this shouldn't be an outlier unless u think that:

Genin < Shippuden Characters?
 
MostPowerfull said:
@Black

Sorry, I should have said next to Mach 4k.
Click to expand...
No problem. If indeed thought that they r next to 4K then yeah this ain't an outlier. Not only that but um....this will cause a bit of problems

Ex: 1Tail Naruto (Part 1)/ CM2 Sasuke (Part 1)/ Butterfly Choji (Part 1) should be stronger then the Boruto Generation Genins
 
Damage3245 said:
At this point in the series the best speed feat is the Mach 3K feat by Pain, right? But base Sasuke is apparently over 6 times faster than that despite being exhausted?
Click to expand...
>Newer generation is stronger than old generation.

>New generation has consistent 3k-5k calcs.

>Best speed feat for old generation before power creep was a tired and damaged Pain at Mach 3k.

>Somehow an even more tired and injured Sasuke weaker than Pain is Mach 17k.

>No other consistent or even close calcs that this Sasuke scales to.

That looks like an outlier right now.
 
Quick question, wasn't Sasuke's Kirin calced to have a speed value here?

That seems lower than the value that is used on the calc for Sasuke's dodging.
 
@IMade

No. The best feat was Sasuke Kirin which was like Mach 5060 and if Boruto Genins actually have a Mach 4K calc that's consistent then yeah this ain't an outlier
 
So Sasuke invented this incredible technique that he claimed nobody can evade... yet even when exhausted he can move almost 4 times faster than it and dodge it?

Anyone else thinks this seems fishy?
 
Yo you do realize Sasuke was surprised that Itachi evaded the attack right?? Sasuke was clearly exaggerating. He himself and Itachi managed to escape it. Itachi was already fast enough to bring Susanno up before he got hit

Your main argument is about someone being tired. In Naruto even when your tired you can do incredible feats and this is common.
 
Small clarification: Itachi didn't evade it, he blocked it with a surprise technique that Sasuke didn't even know existed.

But if Sasuke is Mach 19K then Itachi is also Mach 19K, and if Sasuke knew that his opponent was four times faster than his Kirin, why did he claim it was be impossible to evade?
 
@Damage

That's a HORRIFIC counterargument my dude. PLENTY of anime say exaggerating things when they go to do an attack, yet people still scale so stop
 
Sasuke didn't even know Itachi had Susanno what r u talking about??? He didn't even know what the concept of Susanno was a matter of fact and Sasuke was faster than that dying Itachi anyway
 
@AstralKing7; the OP states that Itachi would directly scale to it putting his combat speed at Mach 19K.

It is one thing for Sasuke to not know about Susano'o which is capable of blocking Kirin, but to not know how fast his opponent is and make up a claim that 'nobody can evade Kirin'?
 
New generation is stronger than Part 1. Did you really say that the New generation is stronger than the Jonins and etc of Part 2? Or who are stronger than Itachi and Cia?

It's a joke, right?
 
Did Itachi dodge Kirin??? Susanno is what helped Sasuke evade Kirin. Did Itachi use Susanno in the fight against Sasuke before Sasuke made the statement?? Itachi is already weakened through that fight anyway.

Sasuke has never fought anyone as fast as him during those arcs leading up to that fight. Believing that no one could dodge Kirin is believable when Sasuke in is incredibly fast.


Also your using that statement about kirins speed as if Sasuke made that statement including himself not being able to dodge it

He was going to have to dodge that attack the first time he was going to use it against Naruto and team 7 anyway in Base so yeah. This is not a outlier even for Base Sasuke.
 
Kirin is a natural lightning and has its speed explicit by the manga. Sasuke dodge from it, that's the reason for that.

And Sasuke saying that no one can deflect is a hyperbole ... He himself did it and probably should be referring to Itachi or trying to upset him.
In addition, it is irrelevant and inconsiderate, since the manga itself denies this speech, because, Zetsu said that Itachi's reaction was crap and he was much better than that moment on the fight.
 
If Sasuke dodged kirin that means a weakened Itachi scales to him because they were pretty even during their fight.

That means Sasuke decided to use a technique he knew he could dodge against someone who was keeping pace with him seconds earlier.
 
@Damage

Again. Plenty of characters in different anime say exaggerating this but people still scale to it so again stop it. Doesn't matter if he blocked or evade, he REACTED to it so again no. Sasuke was also keeping up with Itachi as well but not only that, characters scale as well since yeah Pein and Itachi r in the realm of strongest when it comes to the Akatsuki
 
Damage3245 said:
@AstralKing7; the OP states that Itachi would directly scale to it putting his combat speed at Mach 19K.

It is one thing for Sasuke to not know about Susano'o which is capable of blocking Kirin, but to not know how fast his opponent is and make up a claim that 'nobody can evade Kirin'?
Click to expand...
Edo Itachi would scale. He doesn't have a sick key, only an Edo Tensei key.
 
Itachi offered no danger to Sasuke, especially when they fought on the roof, after worsening his situation after using Tsukuyomi.

He was hit by guided Shuriken. It was hit by Katon, showed that he could not accompany him at all and was literally told that he did not have the same speed as before. And literally, at the time of the Kirin, it was a moment where Itachi was EXTREMELY weakened and injured. Nothing too much Sasuke to use his most powerful technique and trump card to try to kill him.
 
@Paul

Sasuke was faster than Itachi and Itachi couldn't even dodge a hidden demon win shuriken from sasuke. Itachi could barley dodge fire style jutsus from Sasuke

Please people go read Naruto again man. It's clear that u guys didn't read all of Naruto if your saying Itachi then was even to Sasuke
 
> Kirin is a natural lightning and has its speed explicit by the manga.

Isn't natural lightning speed Mach 1,282?

The calc in the OP has its speed at Mach 5,882.

It seems a bit like calc-stacking right now.
 
@Damage please go read Naruto because your upholding revisions for nothing when you don't know about the context of the fights.
 
Calc Stacking is stacking a calculation on the other.

Kirin has his speed dictated by the manga. It is no different from lightning or lasers. Do not enter as calc stacking.
 
The manga states a timeframe for the Kirin, but not the distance.

So an assumption for distance is made and a calculation is produced based on that to get Kirin's speed.

So yeah, it is a calculation which is being used for Sasuke's calculation.
 
The manga says it comes from cumuloninbus, so yeah, he told us the distance and the distance used is that of a cumuloninbus to ground, which is exactly what Zetsu says. No assumptions...

It is not calc stacking.
 
Damage3245 said:
> Kirin is a natural lightning and has its speed explicit by the manga.
Isn't natural lightning speed Mach 1,282?

The calc in the OP has its speed at Mach 5,882.

It seems a bit like calc-stacking right now.
Click to expand...
Then you really should the chapters between the 380 and 400. NOTHING indicates calc stacking. All of this happens on the same scene. When the Kirin was fired, Sasuke dodged that same Kirin, wich was calced to be Mach 6k, on the same scene.
 
That's literally the same case as Naruto's RS ans Pain dodging the same RS. Not calc stacking here
 
M3X: it sounds like you're agreeing with me. You made a calculation for Kirin's speed by assuming it came from 2,000 m height - and used that as the basis to make Sasuke's calc.
 
@Damage

The "assumption" is the normal distance of a cumuloninbus to the ground, in which was asserted by Zetsu. He says it came from a cumuloninbus, so it's not an assumption, it's a FACT.

Try again!
 
....ok so moving on. Who would scale again? We can go ahead with this and apply the changes once we decide on what to do
 
BlackeJan said:
....ok so moving on. Who would scale again? We can go ahead with this and apply the changes once we decide on what to do
Click to expand...

I feel as if Kakashi with ocular jutsu during Gaara rescue arc scales to Deidara. We can't say Kakashi only in pain arc and above scales when he technically fought Deidara and ripped his arm off. Naruto definitely scales with KNO and up tho
 
BlackeJan said:
MostPowerfull said:
@Black

Sorry, I should have said next to Mach 4k.
Click to expand...
No problem. If indeed thought that they r next to 4K then yeah this ain't an outlier. Not only that but um....this will cause a bit of problems
Ex: 1Tail Naruto (Part 1)/ CM2 Sasuke (Part 1)/ Butterfly Choji (Part 1) should be stronger then the Boruto Generation Genins
Click to expand...
Sorry, had not seen this current review ...

But I think for anyone in Part 1, those feats are simply Outliers.
Naruto and Sasuke managed to surprise Zabuza, and Naruto even hit Kabuto ... And also, it is said that the New Generation always surpasses the previous one.

At most, I think only Naruto KN1 and Sasuke CS2 would have a "possible" added to their profiles.
The Sound Quartet and etc, were trampled by a High Hypersonic.
 
I dont agree with Kakashi being MHS+ and sub rela only arcs after. Or he is sub rela when the Shippuden starts or the powerscaling is fcked up.
 
No one in part 1 scales at all. We have standar averages for them and Naruto and Sasuke even with their boost are still around chunin level. They shouldn't scale in anyway to this calc. It shouldn't even be up for discussion.

The Sound 4 don't scale either. Chunins who found it incredibly hard to fight two special Jonins
 
Damage3245 said:
@AstralKing7; the OP states that Itachi would directly scale to it putting his combat speed at Mach 19K.It is one thing for Sasuke to not know about Susano'o which is capable of blocking Kirin, but to not know how fast his opponent is and make up a claim that 'nobody can evade Kirin'?
Click to expand...
it will only scale to normal itachi not dying itachi
 
Omimi said:
naruto 7-C and boruto is 8-A, old generation stronger than Newer generation
Click to expand...
I think he meant that the new generation is stronger than the old one pre-timeskip wise [if kurama and cursed seal amps are not counted].
 
Well, one calc group member so far agrees with me that it is calc stacking.
 
Then you and the calc member are wrong. You guys did not understood what is being calced there
 
Dark649 said:
I think he meant that the new generation is stronger than the old one pre-timeskip wise [if kurama and cursed seal amps are not counted].
Click to expand...
Chuunin Exams naruto still 8-A with Kurama's Chakra
 
MostPowerfull said:
The manga says it comes from cumuloninbus, so yeah, he told us the distance and the distance used is that of a cumuloninbus to ground, which is exactly what Zetsu says. No assumptions...

It is not calc stacking.
Click to expand...
@damage did u not read this??? And also u should tell calc group members the context behind calcs and not just be vague like usual
 
@Damage

Where is the calc that u commented on?

@Everyone

Ok....let's all calm down cause im starting to feel like it's more of us being a bit rude here
 
The feat happened post timeskip and happened around the same time Sasuke was stronger than most Jonin. Also, TataHakai is usually one of our more analytical calc group members, so I trust his sense of judgement regarding the calc itself.
 
Can someone clarify for me, the hideout they're on top of is how tall exactly?
 
I can't fully get into the discussion until I get home, but to try and explain briefly my thought process in bringing up calc-stacking, this is what the page on calc-stacking says:

> Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats.

The Calc Stacking page also says this:

> Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed.

Now, we basically have two calcs going on here - and they are calcs even if they are pretty simple calcs:

1) The speed of Kirin; based on a given timeframe and an assumed distance. (Yes, I know the distance is given roughly by saying it comes from a certain type of cloud, but that isn't an exact distance)

2) The speed of Sasuke dodging Kirin.

Now, the result of the 2nd calc is dependant in the result of the 1st calc. Maybe this scenario doesn't exactly actually count as calc stacking, but can people see why I would bring it up?
 
Yeah, I can see why. I can't explain why this is not calc stacking now with some arguments because I am not home too. So, can you wait?
 
It's not really calc stacking much less a multiple step based calculation. Example of calc stacking is assuming that a Low 7-B striking strength feat grants a Relativistic+ speed rating by dividing the energy yield by the mass of the fist and Multiplying it by 2 and taking the square root of that number. The distance Sasuke moved is calcable on panel feat, and the timeframe given is legit.
 
The calc is wrong in utilizing the 2km cloud-to-ground distance, they're standing on top of a mountain so logically you should substract that from the cloud height to get a proper distance for the lightning to travel.
 
No. It was stated that Kirin can reach the ground at 0.001 seconds, not the top of the hideout.
 
No. The distance is not presumed. It is said where it comes from, and the "assumed" distance is the standard of a cumuloninbus. Here, you can simply increase it or ... Increase it, since the cumuloninbus standard is around 2000 to 4000m, at least.
It's not a asumption where the lightning is, it's a question of which distance to use. But the distance still comes from a cumuloninbus, so a average calculation (w/ pixel scaling, angsize e cia) is not necessary. The distance we're told! We just need to decide which distance to use and the one used in calc is as consistent as possible.

Therefore, it is not a calc stacking. There is no calculation made, since the author himself gives us the calculation. It is quite different, for example, from the calculation of Pain. Where we have a calculation made to find the distance, although we have a "supposed" time said.
 
If anyone has a prob with the calc make a crt for it since it's already accepted

This thread is for find the scaling and it's kinda running of track
 
Okay. I've been meaning to analyse lightning style jutsu in Naruto for a while and I'll take my concerns to a new thread I'll create (probably tomorrow).
 
Why are u bringing up chunins and new gen here??? This thread is for who scales to Sub rel. no chunin level character scales to that at all cause you would have to be comparable to Sasuke or Akatsuki and Kakashi level ninja
 
cuz of this bolds

imade wrote

>Best speed feat for old generation before power creep was a tired and damaged Pain at Mach 3k.

That looks like an outlier right now.


i meant that old gen genin=new gen genin in speed


if part one chunin = to new gen genin in speed than old gen genin should scale to them


if they scale then it wont be outlier


and never said chunin level character scales to this
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay. I've been meaning to analyse lightning style jutsu in Naruto for a while and I'll take my concerns to a new thread I'll create (probably tomorrow).
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with lightning element chakra. We have reasons why they are real
 
Damage3245 said:
Calcs can be mathematically correct while still being based on incorrect info.
Click to expand...
^

This. So much this. I was thinking on making a thread on it before I saw this comment. I've seen things go through solely because the math looked right. If it looks right, and enough people say it's mathematically accurate, it goes through, as context isn't needed.
 
Yamato, Sai (War Arc and New Era), Team 8, Team 10, Karin, Suigetsu, Deidara, Base Kabuto (War Arc), Kankuro (War Arc), Temari (War Arc), Kinkaku, Ginkaku, Samui, Cee, Ao, Hanzo, Mifune


These are the people i feel shouldnt scale
 
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