Naruto Low 5-B Upscale CRT

[UchihaSlayer96]

I can't believe I missed this thread lol. Seems spicy.

and we know The Last > Part 2.

No? No, we don't lol. This is a bit baseless tbh.
All we know is that he was using a weaker form, so there's no real reason to assume Part 2 SPSM Naruto is weaker than the Last BSM Naruto.

 

[LordTracer]

so there's no real reason to assume Part 2 SPSM Naruto is weaker than the Last BSM Naruto.

I don’t think he’s saying Blank Period BSM Naruto is stronger than Part 2 SPSM Naruto (at least I hope he’s not), I think he’s saying that in general, Naruto in The Last > Naruto in Part II.

 

[RanaProGamer]

The fact that you are trying to scale one of his most powerful Ninjutsu to his normal Taijutsu, but you are forgetting that Naruto caught her off guard and he used chakra to amp his arm.

Ok, this might make sense.

We? No, you. This is baseless. All The Last Naruto used was BSM, not his SPSM. And there is no reason to belive that his adult self is stronger then his The Last self, again, baseless. Naruto didn't fought since The Last against Toneri. At least decades without fighting.

We know this because we literally see him training in the movie itself. And false, even after Boruto and Himawari were born, we are shown Naruto is still training. Our only assumption would be Naruto stopping his training after becoming Hokage, which is still iffy since the anime confirms that the Kage continued their training even after the war.

Again, that's something baseless. Naruto chakra did this once. And his chakra didnt do the same again while in Bayron Mode. That's something that is not explained yet, I don't even know why you used this stuff as an argument

Ummm, what does Baryon Mode have anything to do with space curvature? The space curvature was detected due to Naruto's dimension having a higher chakra number than what they are initially meant to have. And the main source of this was Naruto.

All in all, nothing proves Naruto got weaker, most of it points to either him keeping his peak strength or being stronger.

 

[Kin201]

Kaguya beats the hell out of Adult SOSP Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke individually, and will outlast Baryon Mode Naruto.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Ummm, what does Baryon Mode have anything to do with space curvature? The space curvature was detected due to Naruto's dimension having a higher chakra number than what they are initially meant to have. And the main source of this was Naruto.

Read what you wrote. The space stuff is caused by Naruto's chakra. Bayron Mode should have more chakra than his previous transformations, and does not affect the space, same for literally every other instance where Naruto used SPSM. Why is this even an argument?

We know this because we literally see him training in the movie itself. And false, even after Boruto and Himawari were born, we are shown Naruto is still training. Our only assumption would be Naruto stopping his training after becoming Hokage, which is still iffy since the anime confirms that the Kage continued their training even after the war.

Then post the statement of the anime here, and post the stuff about Naruto training. All he did during The Last was a showcase of some Taijutsu.

All in all, nothing proves Naruto got weaker, most of it points to either him keeping his peak strength or being stronger.

Equal or not, still get destroyed by Kaguya.

 

[LordTracer]

The Part II v. New Era debate is completely irrelevant to the premise of the thread anyways, why has it gone on for this long...

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I don’t think he’s saying Blank Period BSM Naruto is stronger than Part 2 SPSM Naruto (at least I hope he’s not), I think he’s saying that in general, Naruto in The Last > Naruto in Part II.

Well, it was worded strangely, so I'm not sure lol. But yeah, ofc BSM Naruto in the Last is much stronger than his Part 2 counterpart.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Dude the upscaling is basically accepted, what matters now is the chain scaling

 

[RanaProGamer]

Read what you wrote. The space stuff is caused by Naruto's chakra. Bayron Mode should have more chakra than his previous transformations, and does not affect the space, same for literally every other instance where Naruto used SPSM. Why is this even an argument?

You do realize that the only way we know it affects the space are by statements by those able to sense it right? There was no one at the moment who could, we have only seen Kinshiki do it and it would be headcanon to assume Sasuke could. Also, Naruto's power depends on how much of Kurama's overall chakra he uses, it doesn't matter which transformations Naruto uses, it doesn't increase how much chakra he already has. Base Naruto and SPSM Naruto have a clear power difference and that is due to how much chakra Naruto is using, with his overall chakra being the same whether he uses his other transformations or not. It is literally why we see Momoshiki absorbing Kurama's chakra from Base Naruto, doesn't mean he'd absorb more chakra compared if Naruto used other transformations.

Then post the statement of the anime here, and post the stuff about Naruto training. All he did during The Last was a showcase of some Taijutsu.

I'll post the statements, but how is training Taijutsu an anti feat of him getting stronger?

Equal or not, still get destroyed by Kaguya.

When he was still inexperienced and weaker.

Anyways, after I do post the scans, I'll stop it there cuz it doesn't do anything for this thread.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

.

Are you suggesting that BSM Naruto (The Last) is > SPSM Naruto (Part II)

Or that The Last Naruto's equivalent forms (SM/BM/BSM/SPSM) when compared to Shippuden Naruto's equivalent forms (SM/BM/BSM/SPSM) are stronger in general?

 

[RanaProGamer]

Are you suggesting that BSM Naruto (The Last) is > SPSM Naruto (Part II)

Or that The Last Naruto's equivalent forms (SM/BM/BSM/SPSM) when compared to Shippuden Naruto's equivalent forms (SM/BM/BSM/SPSM) are stronger in general?

The latter. Sorry if I stirred up that confusion.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Ah okay, no problem.

 

[KingTempest]

It's literally in all forms of Boruto media sources that she was afraid of him

It's really not, it was Sasuke's speculation

and it's backed up with Momoshiki confirming he would've punished Kaguya himself

Momoshoki thought that he could beat Naruto and Sasuke.

and Naruto's statement in the game (non canon yea but can be used for supporting evidence) that they were stronger than Kaguya

Non canon so it doesn't matter at all

 

[LordTracer]

Can we not simply scale both Kaguya and Momoshiki above Toneri and call it a day?

 

[KingTempest]

Can we not simply scale both Kaguya and Momoshiki above Toneri and call it a day?

Don't we already do?

 

[RanaProGamer]

Can we not simply scale both Kaguya and Momoshiki above Toneri and call it a day?

We can, let's stick to that

 

[LordTracer]

Don't we already do?

I mean for the sake of this revision, just scale them above Toneri and leave the Part II v. New Era stuff for another revision.

 

[KingTempest]

Also.

It's funny that Shadow says this

This is heavily dependant on which Toneri Calc we use. if it's the 1.5x one then I don't see a real issue here, considering we are talking about a form that is literally fodder to his next form which itself is inferior to his Baryon Form. the 1.5x is by most accounts a very low end and we have done this for dozens of characters as a logical scaling chain. see Super Saiyan Goku.

Though it should be something like "At least 5-C Likely Low 5-B"

Edit: my suggestion is in relation to his stronger forms, his BSM would not change.

But then no one talks about the calc to use.

Should a calc group member thread be made?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Adult Naruto one-shot Toneri and easily overpowered his Moon Cutting Attack without all of his power, the distance to Low 5-B is small, upscaling should be fine, Kinshiki and Momoshiki are on Naruto and Sasuke’s level and they combined their power, so Low 5-B for them should be fine as well, it’s basic stuff guys

 

[RanaProGamer]

I mean for the sake of this revision, just scale them above Toneri and leave the Part II v. New Era stuff for another revision.

Agreed, let's discuss the current chain above.

 

[LordTracer]

Also.

It's funny that Shadow says this


But then no one talks about the calc to use.

Should a calc group member thread be made?

Yes, although y’know the old calc is the one with the 1.5x difference, right? So it wouldn’t really make a difference either way.

 

[Kin201]

Adult Naruto one-shot Toneri and easily overpowered his Moon Cutting Attack without all of his power, the distance to Low 5-B is small, upscaling should be fine, Kinshiki and Momoshiki are on Naruto and Sasuke’s level and they combined their power, so Low 5-B for them should be fine as well, it’s basic stuff guys

I don't think Kinshiki is on their level.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

It's really not, it was Sasuke's speculation

I'm completely neutral on Kaguya Vs Momoshiki stuff, but that wasn't Sasuke's mere "speculation", it was his conclusion after he took a look at their story, and Sasuke is no fool and knows how powerful Kaguya is

That said, I believe it's a bit hard to say but they both just scale above Toneri and I'm fine with that

 

[RanaProGamer]

I don't think Kinshiki is on their level.

Kinshiki was able to go toe to toe with Sasuke. That should be enough to scale him around those levels.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Kinshiki was able to go toe to toe with Sasuke. That should be enough to scale him around those levels.

IIRC wasn't it a Low on Chakra Sasuke on both confrontations?

 

[LordTracer]

Doesn’t Kinshiki just scale above Toneri too

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I think this whole Kaguya vs Momoshiki debate can probably be settled in another separate thread tbh, because it's such a controversial topic it'll definitely clog this thread more than is necessary.

We don't really need it for establishing a scaling chain. Here's an example of what we can go with (for now):

Baryon Mode Naruto >= Isshiki > Partial Ōtsutsuki Jigen > Other Ōtsutsuki tier characters (SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke [Adult and Teen], Kaguya, Momoshiki, Kinshiki, Madara, Hagoromo, Possibly Hamura, Delta, and Kashin koji) > BSM Naruto (The Last) >> TCM Toneri


The low 5-Bs:

- Baryon Mode Naruto: Fought Isshiki, and initially overpowered him, so he obviously scales.

- Isshiki Ōtsutsuki: Stomped Naruto and Sasuke, and is stronger than Jigen who did the same.

- Jigen: Stomped Naruto and Sasuke, though he had to use his full power to do so.

- SPSM Naruto (Teen and Adult): He scales by virtue of being far above his BSM state from the Last.

- Sasuke: Equal to Naruto as an adult, so he scales.

- Fused Momoshiki: Can keep up with Naruto and Sasuke simultaneously, though both were not at full power, and he was still overwhelmed when they went all out.

- Base Momoshiki: With Ninjutsu, he managed to knock out SPSM Naruto. Physically he should be comparable to or superior to Kinshiki.

- Kinshiki: He kept up with a casual/held back base Sasuke physically.

- Kaguya: Much stronger than Teen Naruto and Sasuke, and casually killed hundreds of Naruto's clones, tanked his TBBRS, broke Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o, etc..

- Hagoromo: Betsowed upon Naruto and Sasuke their Six Paths power, and fought Kaguya in the past. He also became the Jubi Jinchuuriki, and became even stronger.

- Hamura: Should be superior to Toneri, and fought Kaguya alongside his brother. Though he is probably weaker.

- Madara: Fought SPSM Naruto and Sasuke.

- Delta: Fought SPSM Naruto, though he was somewhat holding back.



The 5-C+ tiers:

- TCM Toneri and BSM Naruto for scaling to Toneri's feats. Naruto would potentially be "At least 5-C+" for scaling significantly above Toneri.

5-C (56.271525956 exatons to 71.062 exatons) tier:
Kashin Koji: scales to 10% Jigen in base, and roughly 10x that in SM.


Sorry if I missed anybody, but I think this should be the basic idea for the scaling chain.

 

[LordTracer]

Somewhat on-topic, but Kashin Koji needs a tier for his Sage Mode.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Somewhat on-topic, but Kashin Koji needs a tier for his Sage Mode.

If KK is Low 5-B in base he should just have "Higher with SM" IMO

 

[LordTracer]

If KK is Low 5-B in base he should just have "Higher with SM" IMO

Oh, that’s what he would have to be, I’m just saying that it should be noted on his profile.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure about base KK being Low 5-B due to the whole "less than 10% Jigen" thing, but I put him there for now just in case. He'll probably be 5-C though now that I think about it.

 

[Kin201]

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure about base KK being Low 5-B due to the whole "less than 10% Jigen" thing, but I put him there for now just in case. He'll probably be 5-C though now that I think about it.

I agree, but didn't he have a statement of being above Delta?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree, but didn't he have a statement of being above Delta?

I don't recall that tbh. Are you sure about it?

 

[LordTracer]

Well, let’s see. Jigen scales above NE NaruSasu, who scale above Merged Momoshiki, who would be 562.71525956 exatons with the old Toneri calc and 710.62 exatons with the new calc.

10% of that would be 56.271525956 exatons to 71.062 exatons, both of which are Moon level, no +. So that’s what Kashin Koji would be scaling to.

 

[Slacjow]

Imo, Base KK should scale to 10% of Jigen, and SM should scale to 100% Jigen since its 10x or so.
KK was confident to take down Delta but he has various ninjutsu and he was holding a hand sign while making a claim so I presume he would've destroyed her with a technique.

 

[KingTempest]

Why would Base KK scale to 10% of Jigen in any way shape or form?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Alright, I've edited my comment.

 

[Slacjow]

Why would Base KK scale to 10% of Jigen in any way shape or form?

Because he could keep up with him and even tank hits from Horned Karma form?

 

[KingTempest]

Because he could keep up with him

Jigen stood in one place and turned in a circle and absorbed everything that KK could do, then only died from a Natural fire summon. Isshiki manhandled him

and even tank hits from Horned Karma form?

You and I have completely different views on the word "tank"

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

You and I have completely different views on the word "tank"

What are you on about Tempest? In that last scan you posted we clearly see KK withstanding a kick from Ōtsutsuki Jigen, and continued like nothing happened. If that's not tanking idk what is.