• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Naruto Low 5-B Upscale CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
RanaProGamer

RanaProGamer

3,443
1,594
https://vsbattles.com/threads/update-for-boruto-profiles-naruto-sasuke-boruto.111576/

As discussed in this previous CRT, it seemed best to discuss this as a separate topic so here it is.

The starting point would be Toneri who performs a moon spitting feat which outputs 355.31 Exatons as seen here in this calc https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Wrath_Of_Itachi/Toneri_Cuts_the_Moon_in_Half_(In_HD)

Using the Attack Potency Chart, the requirement for baseline Small Planet level is 433 Exatons. Comparing the feat to it, this only gives a 1.21x AP difference.

We know that (The Last) Naruto who at this point, released half of Kurama was able to tank this attack fairly easily and even one-shotted Toneri afterwards. Meaning Naruto would upscale from this attack even without his full power. Logically, at full power, he would upscale from his previous state that tanked the moon splitting attack as well as one-shot Toneri. Assuming Naruto as an Adult didn't grow stronger and only scales to his younger (The Last) self, Adult Sasuke should logically scale to him as well.

Going by the numerous statements, we know that at the very least that Momoshiki, even in his base state, should scale above Kaguya as she planned to fight him with an entire army. Kinshiki was able to go toe to toe with Sasuke and even forced him to retreat as soon as Momoshiki showed up, Momoshiki would go on to absorb this Kinshiki, becoming even stronger. Naruto and Sasuke as adults are able to fight and overpower this Momoshiki while both aren't even at full power due to the chakra drain.

Going fast forward, Naruto and Sasuke at full power get basically one-shotted by Jigen, implying that even as a vessel, Isshiki scales above far above both Naruto and Sasuke at full power. After having his vessel destroyed, Isshiki's true power is stated be above his vessel state and scales above it. Naruto using Baryon Mode is able to overpower this Isshiki before growing weaker and eventually reverting to his base form.

What does this all mean?

Toneri Otsutsuki (355.31 Exatons) < Naruto and Sasuke (The Last) individually (As Naruto tanked and shot Toneri and Sasuke scales to Naruto) = Naruto and Sasuke (Adults) (Assuming they didn't get stronger) = Kinshiki and possibly Base Momoshiki (We know that Kaguya was preparing for Momoshiki, Kinshiki and Urashiki and they should be at the very least relative) < Fused Momoshiki (Due to scaling above his base state and requiring both Naruto and Sasuke to work together to beat) < Jigen (For beating both Naruto and Sasuke at their full powers) < Isshiki (From statements suggesting that his vessel was unable to use his full power and should scale above it) = Baryon Mode Naruto (Literally damaging Isshiki for the most part of the fight).

Due to 1.2x being barely a difference between Toneri's feat and Small Planet level as the difference is lesser than even 2x and 1.5x, those who upscale from Toneri should be upgraded to baseline Low 5-B as shown from the numerous amount of times that characters have scaled above him.

I think it would make sense to make: New Era Naruto, New Era Sasuke, Base and Fused Momoshiki, and Kinshiki should all be Possibly or Likely Low 5-B

With: Jigen and Isshiki, as well as Baryon Mode Naruto, being straight up Low 5-B or Low 5-B, likely higher

Though I feel like the ones that might possibly also get the upgrade, but I'm not sure if they should: Part 2 Naruto and Sasuke, Madara, Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura and Delta

Without further ado, let's discuss this.
 
We still need to come to a decision about which version of the calc to use. The one we currently use for Toneri is just 281 Exatons.
 
RanaProGamer said:
The Naruto verse page has the newer calc on its calculations, so I thought it was accepted.
Click to expand...
I'll fix that.


Anyway, I am fully against upscaling here. It is the most arbitrary choice possible. What does the next tier by 1.2x higher than the feat have to do with anything?

We're just giving out 1.2x or 1.5x multipliers for no good reason?

If Naruto took out Toneri, who scales to X value, then just scale him to X value. Don't scale him to Y value just because Y value is a higher tier and you want the characters to be a higher tier.

This is like giving every character who has a "power up" mode a 2x multiplier, because you can't believe they're not at least twice as strong as they were before. It's the same type of arbitrary logic - but we don't do that. And we shouldn't be upscaling these characters to random values just because it's within spitting distance of a shiny new higher tier.
 
While which calc to use is in question, I do think we normally consider absorption of another pretty directly as an addition to stats, so when Momoshiki absorbed Kinshiki and got a boost in power, I figured that would pretty directly lead into Low 5-B even with the old calc.

However, I do agree that there isn't really a lot of direct proof that the likes of Momoshiki and the other Otsusuki scale above Kaguya. However, the scaling chain does look like it still stands even with that bit.
 
Also.

Naruto pushed through Toneri's attack focusing most of his chakra in 1 hand.
He doesn't do that every fight.

Why are we upscaling his regular state to something he did when amped?

And Toneri doesn't even have a genuine justification -_-, so Naruto one shotting him shouldn't be something to base an upgrade on a bunch of characters on.
 
KingTempest said:
Also.

Naruto pushed through Toneri's attack focusing most of his chakra in 1 hand.
He doesn't do that every fight.

Why are we upscaling his regular state to something he did when amped?

And Toneri doesn't even have a genuine justification -_-, so Naruto one shotting him shouldn't be something to base an upgrade on a bunch of characters on.
Click to expand...
I don't think focusing energy into a single part of you body counts as an amp. And Toneri's justification is his feat which is being used for the scaling here in the first place I assume.
 
KingTempest said:
For Naruto, it is, which is why characters like Sakura get stronger.
Click to expand...
We don't consider it an amp for Sakura when she does it or Tsunade who made the technique. That scales to their base stats. And while this wouldn't scale to Naruto's base stats because it's clearly his Chakra mode I'm sure the same goes there.
KingTempest said:
That needs to be tackled.
Click to expand...
Nothing really to tackle their besides which calc, with even the lower calc supporting what I was talking about above.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'll fix that.


Anyway, I am fully against upscaling here. It is the most arbitrary choice possible. What does the next tier by 1.2x higher than the feat have to do with anything?

We're just giving out 1.2x or 1.5x multipliers for no good reason?

If Naruto took out Toneri, who scales to X value, then just scale him to X value. Don't scale him to Y value just because Y value is a higher tier and you want the characters to be a higher tier.

This is like giving every character who has a "power up" mode a 2x multiplier, because you can't believe they're not at least twice as strong as they were before. It's the same type of arbitrary logic - but we don't do that. And we shouldn't be upscaling these characters to random values just because it's within spitting distance of a shiny new higher tier.
Click to expand...
How is it arbitrary when the gap is that small? I don't usually like to bring in other verse, but even MCU Thanos upscale above Thor who scales to his own High 7-A+ feat which is only 1.17x from 6-C, yet Thanos is ranked 6-C due to how consistently he shows to scale above all the High 7-A Avengers. There are no multipliers, I've simply shown many cases of characters scaling far above Toneri. Its why I suggested a Possibly or Likely rating in the first place as it fits either description.
 
I agree that whatever calc is used, Momoshiki and Kinshiki should scale around Toneri and Fused Momoshiki should reach Low 5-B by that, considering we take that as a addition to stats
 
Duedate makes sense, but Damage might make a point that we might need to discuss the best method to calculate the original feat given the conflicting thoughts.
 
Duedate8898 said:
While which calc to use is in question, I do think we normally consider absorption of another pretty directly as an addition to stats, so when Momoshiki absorbed Kinshiki and got a boost in power, I figured that would pretty directly lead into Low 5-B even with the old calc.

However, I do agree that there isn't really a lot of direct proof that the likes of Momoshiki and the other Otsusuki scale above Kaguya. However, the scaling chain does look like it still stands even with that bit.
Click to expand...
Honestly, even if we were to completely remove Momoshiki scaling above Kaguya, the scaling chain does still stand.
 
RanaProGamer said:
We know that (The Last) Naruto who at this point, released half of Kurama was able to tank this attack fairly easily and even one-shotted Toneri afterwards. Meaning Naruto would upscale from this attack even without his full power. Logically, at full power, he would upscale from his previous state that tanked the moon splitting attack as well as one-shot Toneri.
Click to expand...
Why would having another half of Kurama give a significant boost to BSM Naruto (The Last)? Is that Kurama half of BSM Naruto (The Last) or is it just literally 50% Kurama (The High 6-C/Low 6-B one)?

Additionally, I don't think BSM Naruto (The Last) should upscale because that was only one instance, while earlier in their fight and after the Moon Cut, BSM Naruto (The Last) and TCM Toneri were more or less portrayed as equal.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
Why would having another half of Kurama give a significant boost to BSM Naruto (The Last)? Is that Kurama half of BSM Naruto (The Last) or is it just literally 50% Kurama (The High 6-C/Low 6-B one)?

Additionally, I don't think BSM Naruto (The Last) should upscale because that was only one instance, while earlier in their fight and after the Moon Cut, BSM Naruto (The Last) and TCM Toneri were more or less portrayed as equal.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say equals, since Naruto only had a hard time landing a blow. In the sequences where Naruto does close the distance, it looked like Toneri simply evaded his attacks. Especially since Toneri confirms it was one hit that took him out. Tho I think I might agree that having another half of Kurama shouldn't give Naruto a significant boost, but The Last Naruto would still upscale from one-shotting and tanking Toneri's attack.
 
RanaProGamer said:
I wouldn't say equals, since Naruto only had a hard time landing a blow. In the sequences where Naruto does close the distance, it looked like Toneri simply evaded his attacks. Especially since Toneri confirms it was one hit that took him out. Tho I think I might agree that having another half of Kurama shouldn't give Naruto a significant boost, but The Last Naruto would still upscale from one-shotting and tanking Toneri's attack.
Click to expand...
The Tanking was one instance compared to the other times they clashed attacks, and the One-Shotting was done by Naruto focussing all his BSM Chakra into one arm.
 
some reasons why they should upscale
Naruto in 50% BSM one shot toneri he still has his SO6Ps and the other half of kurama not even being used
so SO6Ps The Last Naruto>>>>355 Exatons then Naruto got stronger over the years by unquantifiable amount with this Karma Jigen then stomped Hokage naruto and Sasuke avatars which are superior to their physicals. he got even stronger with a new transformation and then got even stronger with Isshiki who is weaker then Baryon mode naruto I would say Low 5-B for Boruto God tiers (not delta she was weaker then SO6Ps Naruto) its also consistent with Momoshiki being stated in literally every single naruto media to be superior to Kaguya (novels, Databooks, Reliable Character statements) who is superior to Ghost Hagaromo who is 403 exatons
 
BlackeJan said:
Isn’t there a thread where if someone is like 1.5 to the next tier then they can get that upscale
Click to expand...
It was a Danny Phantom thread a bit back that used this logic. It ended up not doing too much though since they forwent that tier for another far higher calc.
 
BlackeJan said:
Isn’t there a thread where if someone is like 1.5 to the next tier then they can get that upscale
Click to expand...
If given sufficient proof and reasoning on why they should upscale, such as feats, context, and statements, how near the value is to the next Tier or "+" symbol, and how casual their feats are performed
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
If given sufficient proof and reasoning on why they should upscale, such as feats, context, and statements, how near the value is to the next Tier or "+" symbol, and how casual their feats are performed
Click to expand...
And there has to be a fairly significant difference, just being slightly stronger wouldn’t be enough (unless it’s a matter of a 1.1x difference or something).
 
Slightly stronger would be an understatement with what I've presented. Though I think anything above Baseline Low 5-B would be too much headcanon. This is why I think the only ones who are straight up Baseline Low 5-B are Ishhiki and Baryon Mode Naruto since they are far stronger, while others are only Possibly or Likely
 
"At Least 5-C+" for those who scale above TCM Toneri and BSM Naruto

"At Least 5-C+, likely Higher" for those who scale above SPSM Naruto and Sasuke

Though what are people's thoughts on Low 5-B Fused Momoshiki (Via absorbing Kinshiki)?
 
Given the upscaling thread that was accepted, Naruto is completely justified scaling to the next tier, I'm not sure why they would be the exception to this rule.
 
BlackeJan said:
Then what would had been the point of that thread then? It wouldn’t be fair if others can do it but not us when we all know how strong Isshiki is
Click to expand...
I'm not really concerned about the other thread right now. Trust me, I will make a thread to address that issue as well.
 
This is heavily dependant on which Toneri Calc we use. if it's the 1.5x one then I don't see a real issue here, considering we are talking about a form that is literally fodder to his next form which itself is inferior to his Baryon Form. the 1.5x is by most accounts a very low end and we have done this for dozens of characters as a logical scaling chain. see Super Saiyan Goku.

Though it should be something like "At least 5-C Likely Low 5-B"

Edit: my suggestion is in relation to his stronger forms, his BSM would not change.
 
Last edited:
I don't like the way we deal with upscaling. Toneri's GWRE is literally 1.5x below the next Tier, then Naruto simply overpower it with one hand, while not at his full power (not using SPSM), and people don't accept because...? Do you really think that a character equal to the attack could do that with those conditions? Also, "At least", "likely/possibly" and "higher" does not work. That's not how we use those. If you are upscaling, it should be a solid Tier. Naruto IS 1.5 times superior to Toneri, that's kinda obvious.
 
Yeah, that’s literally what upscaling is. If someone has an issue with upscaling, then that can be it’s own thing, but this is just how upscaling works right now.
 
If this is accepted, we shouldn't give anyone a "Likely higher" or "At least" rating for Low 5-B in my view. The gap between the bottom of the tier and the top is 137x, which they wouldn't have the evidence of scaling up to even under a generous interpretation.

Upscaling is allowed in some cases, but generally the scaling chain for superiority would need to be at least two or three steps deep.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Apollonir.Scale
Naruto Hax Upgrading
2 3 4
Replies
120
Views
6K
Arc7Kuroi
Arc7Kuroi
Padaruyos
Fixing some ratings (Minor Naruto 5-C revision)
Replies
8
Views
565
M2u12
sageof8paths
  • Locked
Majestic Attire Susano is FAR stronger than we thought
2
Replies
52
Views
4K
KingTempest
KingTempest
Tom4t0GG789
Possibility 5-B Naruto Upgrade
Replies
1
Views
741
karo_senpaii
karo_senpaii
Godernet
  • Locked
small sauce CRT(Naruto thread)
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Back
Top