Nanatsu No Taizai Discussion Thread 7

[Peter1129]

In-Universe that makes sense considering the average power lvl of two Commandments combined are roughly equal to that of one of the Archangels. Which is consistent since the average of the the Current Ten Commandments x2 would be around 91k which is consistent with Sariel and Tarmiel being individually stronger than a 88k character,

 

[Malikobama1]

@Zero

This is why basing the final decision on what "feels right" regarding the numbers despite evidence to the contrary is completely wrong. Nakaba literally stated that power levels are only estimates, this isn't DBZ where a set difference in number means one character stomps another.

@Peter

You're calling a battle full of feats, plus multiple statements from the AA, plus feats from the most recent chapter, as well as the plot itself, outliers because of a single showing by Escanor, who we can already see is far more durable than his own power?

Summary:

- Archangels directly state they're only about twice as powerful as Commandments. They don't mention "power levels" or "combat classes", only power, which matches the plot point below.

- Ludoshel states he needs to intervene when Tarmiel and Sariel are each fighting two Commandments.

- Sariel and Tarmiel HAD their Graces back then, and Sariel was using his offensively.

- The entire plot of the war hinges on the Commandments and Archangels being comparable. With Mael out of the war, the Goddesses judged themselves unable to win and resorted to the Seal.

- The Commandments were easily able to injure Sariel and Tarmiel and tank many of their attacks, despite Ark being effective against Demons.

- In Chapters 120-121, Meliodas literally could not scratch Galand in his Base form w/Lostvayne, in his Demon form w/Lostvayne, or in his Wrath form w/Lostvayne. The first time he makes Galand bleed is after he gets his power back.

- Matrona did not even scratch Galand either. Nor did she scratch Monspeet, despite Monspeet's heavily drained state.

- Derieri in the latest chapter, along with King, wasn't taking any noticeable damage from berserk Truth/Reticence Estarossa, once again pounding the point home that there's not a huge difference in AP between Commandment-levels and AA-levels.

- Galand barely cutting Escanor makes sense, because mid-morning Escanor also only got slightly injured from double his own attack power. His durability is simply much greater than his shown attack. At best you could argue that Escanor's durability feat against Galand is the outlier compared to all the evidence above.

In order to claim the Ten Commandments shouldn't scale to a large portion of the Archangels, all of the above has to be completely ignored. Finally, you need to keep in mind that total power level is NOT a single number. It's the combination of three categories, and if Tarmiel for example was 50k magic, 30k strength, and 10k will, he'd be 90k and yet be well within Commandment range in each category, so even arguing based on power level gap doesn't hold water.

 

[ZERO7772]

Anyway TC scales to the angles, end of the story.

Common sense will tell you TC scales to the angles, canon wise it wouldn't make sense for them to be a threat for the angles if one angle can make his way through all of them and stomp them like little kids. It's not like one random demon came out started stomping the Arcangles

I wouldn't take the Escanor thing too seriously because that fight was meant to hype him up nothing more so it will be better if you don't compare Galan's fight to the Arcangles

 

[AstralKing7]

so the 7DS are now as strong as angels lol??? Im pretty sure Merlin who beat Greyroad shouldnt be as strong as an archangel. Also doesnt Escanor have Mael's powers and as a human we see how strong he is but back as a Angel Mael with Sunshine should not be compared to 10Cs.

Also Sariel and Tarmiel were able to fight and hurt Mael while he absorbed the other commandments. Mael was already high 6B then but the combine powers of the archangels still made him bleed and caused him damage

 

[Malikobama1]

People need to stop arguing from incredulity and actually look at the overwhelming amount of evidence presented. There's this fixation on power levels, which are really just amalgamations of three different categories, that everything else is willfully ignored.

@Astral

No one has claimed the Sins are equally as strong as an Archangel, I don't know where you got that idea from. All evidence, especially including the most recent chapter, points to them being in the same ballpark of power though. And Merlin defeated Grayroad with pure hax so I don't know why you're bringing that instance up. Seriously, read my entire comment up above. You need to straight up ignore every piece of evidence and logic to say that Commandments don't scale to a large portion of the AA's general level of power. And you also realize that Mael is only >>> the other AA's during a couple minutes of the day right? Ludoshel stated Mael only surpassed him at/near noon.

 

[ZERO7772]

I don't know what the sins have to do with this, they still lose to mid-tier TC let alone Archangel but that doesn't mean they are thousands time weaker you know

 

[-BANLK-]

Yup lmao forget Estarrossa lol his name is Mael and put some respect on it OVO One of the two guys who made a fool out of Demon and Goddess clan lol. We now know that Mael and Gowther may be the final villains of SDS. Demon King and Goddess are being saved for Arthur's manga most likely

Arthur is getting his own manga?

 

[Zezu1995]

you guys need to realize something its not just power... hax plays a big part in fights which is why merlin>grayroad. angels= top tiers 10c 1v1 mid tiers 10c cant beat angels ludo literally solo'd them in the past till they went indura this is why they need 2-3 10c to fight one angel and even then its hard

 

[Ezeriot]

Monspiet and the fighter girl are low top tier (50 000+ PL) commandments, not mid tiers. Zeldris and Estarossa are the only ones at 60 000 PL.

 

[Zezu1995]

question shouldnt we give mael, sunshine?

 

[Zezu1995]

he also needs his goddess abilties,holy,light etc

 

[GalaxianAegis]

The fights in Taizai are normally elaborated upon in the manga on why certain outcomes occur. I think that the scaling is consistent as we have it and the two factions are roughly comparable.

The series simply doesn't make that much sense otherwise for the actions that each have taken.

 

[Malikobama1]

Let's wait and see whether Mael regains all the normal AA abilities before updating the profile

 

[Peter1129]

I hope Mael still retains some of his demon abilities like Full Counter after regaining his goddess powers. It would be kinda cool you know having both powers at the same time.

 

[Zezu1995]

he should during his time in the demon world he learned alot of skills i dont see why he wouldnt have them

 

[Dziga]

Should we add Matter Manipulation to the Supreme Deity profile? Sariel and Tarmiel when combining Tornado and Ocean respectively can unleash an attack called "Divine Wrath of Enlil" that destroys the opponent at the molecular level. Since the Goddess had the two abilities previously, she should logically be able to use said attack at her own.

 

[Malikobama1]

I can see Mael retaining his demon powers and regaining his Goddess powers, but they'll be "dark" themed to suit his fallen angel status. Maybe Ludoshel will betray Escanor and steal Sunshine like how Zeldris and Mel can extract Commandments, then give it back to Mael.

Second to last boss = Dark Sun Mael and Ludoshel vs Meliodas and Zeldris

Then he's defeated, Meliodas takes back Sunshine to give to Escanor. King gets fully grown wings and far surpasses Gloxinia, Diane masters Gaia Form (that we never got to see from Drole) and surpasses Drole, Ban gets his Sacred Treasure along with his Purgatory power-up, and all 7 Sins + Elizabeth/Tarmiel/Sariel/Derieri/Wild unite to take on the Supreme Deity and Demon King.

 

[AstralKing7]

I swear if Mael retains his demon powers he is the last boss or villain confirmed lol. Angel with demon powers or Fallen angel lol. Bruh he would just be too strong. Next manga gonna be vs the Demon King and Goddess im calling it. Mel and LUdo, and Zel gonna have to team up and defeat Mael. I dont think Ludo would help Mael tbh when Mael tried to kill Tarmeil and Sariel

 

[AstralKing7]

I think Arthur will be the one to take down SD and DK cause the next manga will be about him, and he is techincally by Merlin supposed to be speical

 

[Malikobama1]

I hope with Arthur's manga we get a little more adventure and worldbuilding outside Britannia. I have a feeling Nanashi will be one of the Knights of the Round Table. Maybe he'll lead Arthur and co. over to the far east and they'll fight some Asian-themed demons or something

 

[AstralKing7]

dude i freaking know right. I feel like the world building in NNT was horrible tbh. Yeah that actually sounds good with him being one of the NotRT. I feel like Merlin and Escanor may join him too after the events of this manga tbh. I like the idea of going to Asia and other places.

Black CLover needs to also learn of this Asia theme as well after this current arc which seems like a End of Series arc tbh. BC needs a lot of world building and Yami's country sounds interesting since it is far away

 

[Malikobama1]

Yeah...it's not even so much that the worldbuilding was trash, it's that there was NO worldbuilding at all lol. NNT is definitely a character-centric story rather than one where the setting is super important.

 

[ZERO7772]

Can we please not assume things about Meal? it's too early to talk about his sunshine grace and nothing really PROVE that he have The One form just like Escanor, yeah I know he SHOULD have it but we don't know if Escanor's sunshine is exactly the same as Meal

Lets hold back on the Noon thing for now

 

[Dziga]

Escanor's ability literally is the same as Mael, there's no reason Mael should't go to a similar state as "The One" at his peak.

 

[ZERO7772]

He supposedly have it but you can't trust Ludo's words 100% and we don't know how Escanor came to have his power

It's also weird how they say the 4 archangels fears Mel if Meal can beat him one on one but then again maybe Nakaba was just hyping up Mel

 

[Dziga]

That doesn't matter in the slightly. The goddess grace should remain the same regardless. If we get any evidence of the contrary, revisions will be made.

 

[ZERO7772]

You have point it's pointless to talk about this now

 

[Malikobama1]

I would presume Mel was feared because Mael was only strong enough to beat him during an extremely short time each day. Realistically in the war, it would have been easy to avoid Mael when he was at his most dangerous.

 

[Dziga]

We don't know how powerful he was in base tho. I don't think a high-leved Goddess would be Street level even when weakened.

 

[Malikobama1]

Of course not lol. But he used to be a really crappy fighter, so presumably he reached AA level and was bestowed a Grace after he became worthy of one

 

[Dziga]

Yeh, I can see Night Mael at the average Red Demon or Holy knight level.

 

[AstralKing7]

lol bro lets not forget Mael is a angel so he is naturally stronger than fodder demons without his grace tbh

 

[Dziga]

Considering Scanor is weaker than ******* Hawk at his lowest, I'm being pretty generous.

 

[ZERO7772]

Pretty sure Meal is like the weakest high-rank angle without his grace but yeah, he should be stronger than freaking night Escanor

 

[Peter1129]

Wait so the high end of Tarmiel's ocean calc is the one that was accepted? Shouldn't Assault Mode Meliodas and those stronger than him be 6-A than? Since he was originally High 6-C from a scaling chain that started from his original 6-C Danafor calc. And not to mention the tier High 6-B is smaller compared to 6-C. So going by scaling even if Assault Mode Meliodas can't be 6-A shouldn't the Demon King, Supreme Deity and potentially The One Escanor and Mael be 6-A?

 

[Malikobama1]

According to Raven earlier in the day yeah. I had never even bothered checking before tbh.

As much as I'd like them to be 6-A, I don't really think there's enough evidence right now for AM Mel to be 6A. We know late-morning Escanor is > Tarmiel, and AM Mel is >> LM Escanor, and The One is >>> AM Mel, but it's all unquantifiable since power levels are separated into three categories which we have no idea about atm.

DK and SD should be 6A though, as The One Escanor is literally 1/8th of SD's original power, and 1/4th of her current power. Putting her just over the 6A line.

 

[Peter1129]

Well the high end of Tarmiel's calc is already almost halfway through High 6-B (368 Teratons) and 6-A starts at 760 Teratons.

The One Escanor could be potentially 6-A for one shotting Assualt Mode Meliodas who is capable of stomping Late Morning Escanor and so on and so forth. But yeah Supreme Deity and Demon King are definitely straight up At least 6-A.

Also what about Wild should he have Likely 6-A durability for surviving casual hits from the Demon King if his profile is made?

 

[Dziga]

If they're casual, then he should be At least High 6-B for durability. Isn't the accepted end for Tarmiel's feat the Low End tho?

 

[Malikobama1]

I figured Wild could be scaled off of whatever current Ban ends up being since Ban was only able to Snatch a few hairs rather than Wild's heart. I got the impression the DK was literally playing with him so idk if he should scale. If other people say he should then I'll just go along with the majority.

 

[Peter1129]

If they're casual, then he should be At least High 6-B for durability. Isn't the accepted end for Tarmiel's feat the Low End tho?

Apparently the high end was the one that's accepted. Well if 6-A Assault Mode gets accepted the Demon King would probably be at least 6-A in his 50% key which is what Wild took hits from. Although I'm not sure if 6-A Assualt Mode Meliodas will get accepted.