Nanatsu no Taizai Discussion Thread 15

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm sick of this crap, everyone just upgrading characters without justification, and I'm not downplaying, only characters that scale to full power Zeldris can scale to Low 6-B

Where's the proof that the Original Demon is stronger than Zeldris and Escanor, because so far, it looks like he's weaker than them, for all we know he was intentionally trying to break the cocoon while Zeldris and Escanor weren't, unless you give me proof that the OD is greater than Zeldris and Escanor, then they can't scale

After all you can't just upgrade characters without proof

 

[Peter1129]

The problem is right now Zeldris is holding his own against Mael much better than The Original Demon did.

Although either way the Original Demon would still be Low 6-B since he's True Form Chandler + True Form Cusack which would make him at least over 1.1 Teratons. So instead of At least Low 6-B he would just be Low 6-B in base.

 

[Zezu1995]

i would agree for BASE OD.. but with his buffed powers he should be that tier... the OD, was the only demon before meliodas to be able to face the DK also. and for proof that hes stronger than zeldris lets go back to them vs ludo... in night time buff zeldris fell to ludo while chandler /cusack could tank anything ludo threw at them where zeldris without GOD cant then they fuse making them way stronger so its either OD and zeldris is on par or OD is slightly stronger with or without his damage buff imo

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I'm sick of this crap, everyone just upgrading characters without justification
Where's the proof that the Original Demon is stronger than Zeldris and Escanor, because so far, it looks like he's weaker than them, for all we know he was intentionally trying to break the cocoon while Zeldris and Escanor weren't, unless you give me proof that the OD is greater than Zeldris and Escanor, then they can't scale

After all you can't just upgrade characters without proof

You're trolling, right? Escanor's The One was radiating shockwaves that literally did nothing to the Darkness around Meliodas. And the Sinner's reformation destroyed that. Though at this point, it could be a possible outlier.

For someone who tries so hard to come off as the "muh inteligent skeptic" You don't do a whole lot of disproving when you question stuff.

You're falling into the Burden of Proof Fallacy, and Argument from Belief fallacies. . You make a claim and claim others have to prove your claim. But really that burden is on you.

 

[Authorofall]

Just read up the translation again. I think it says that the sun armour Mael has on right now, that is heating both the internal and external, is actually a double-edged sword. It might burn him out within the 5 minutes needed for the time-stop spell Merlin is cooking up.

If this is accurate, it atleast tells me that Mael is not taking Zeldris lightly at all, and you all don't necessarily have to rush to conclusion as to who scales to 6b.

 

[HyperZero95]

The translation is already out?

 

[Zezu1995]

people listening to demon is the reason why ark isnt SOL on this site when it meets everything other than a full out statement .. i literally gave every proof that its follows light and even the japan scans/offcial english used the same terms ..

 

[VersusJunkie54]

people listening to demon is the reason why ark isnt SOL on this site when it meets everything other than a full out statement .. i literally gave every proof that its follows light and even the japan scans/offcial english used the same terms ..

Provide it one more time, I'd like to think about it one more time

 

[Zezu1995]

VersusJu
Provide it one more time, I'd like to think about it one more time

can u look at the post? better yet leme get u the link i dont wanna spam maybe i can spam in your inbox xd ..

 

[Zezu1995]

Provide it one more time, I'd like to think about it one more time
heres the link as for the bending of light.... thats what manipulators do... they can manipulate their element.. only thing demon made a point with was ark being physical sometimes, depending on how the user whats to use it. which could also fall under light/holy manipulator...https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2400194

 

[Maxnumb231]

Anybody here who still doubts Zeldris is physically superior than The Sinner?

Because mangahelpers are in no position because they always think statements matters more than feats

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Ominious Nebula is likely stronger than The Sinner, but physically? Not a chance

 

[HyperZero95]

Zeldris was quite literally shown as inferior to Ludoret in their short exchange, hence why he needed to use ON in the first place.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Right.... so then in all this feats zeldris physically is holding mael withiut the use of ON, not only that we already got the fight of king which he single handedly cut Guardians hand.

Since the feats that he has shown is far superior that of The Sinner

Then the scaling would be zeldris>The Sinner.

 

[Peter1129]

We should probably wait for the next few chapters to come out before we decide what to do with the scaling between the Original Demon and Zeldris. Although just in case people didn't see my comment I'm just gonna repeat it here.

Even if the Original Demon is weaker than Zeldris he would still be Low 6-B because he is at least True Form Chandler + True Form Cusack which means he at least has the combined powers of two High 6-C+ characters which would make him slightly above Low 6-B no matter what.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Even if the Original Demon is weaker than Zeldris he would still be Low 6-B because he is at least True Form Chandler + True Form Cusack which means he at least has the combined powers of two High 6-C+ characters which would make him slightly above Low 6-B no matter what.

^^

 

[Muuuuh]

I dont think thatZeldris or Sinner are more powerful than The One Escanor

 

[Peter1129]

At this point I think the Original Demon is probably at most comparable to Zeldris w/ God and 2nd Demon in Base. Speaking of which we probably need a God + 2nd Demon Mark key for Zeldris. He's been using this combination this entire chapter.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Basically I see the tiering as:

Mael (With Sunshine) > The One Escanor > ON Zeldris > King >= Sinner >= Ludoshel > 4C Mael> Cusack and Chandler > AM Meliodas

King, Sinner and Ludoshel are the most confusing. The three of them are a bit comparable to each other. They're at least above 4C Mael, but below ON Zeldris.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Man those wings boosted the shit out of King.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Man, looking back at my arguments, even I don't really get why I thought the things I did, I change my mind, I'm fine with Low 6-B for the characters, except I'd remove the at least from everyone except the Demon King and Supreme Goddess, just a straight up Low-6-B is fone

 

[Peter1129]

Basically I see the tiering as:

Mael (With Sunshine) > The One Escanor > ON Zeldris > King >= Sinner >= Ludoshel > 4C Mael> Cusack and Chandler > AM Meliodas

King, Sinner and Ludoshel are the most confusing. The three of them are a bit comparable to each other. They're at least above 4C Mael, but below ON Zeldris.

Ludoshel was initially stomping The Original Demon though. King also stomped 4C Mael who terrified Elizabeth who is comparable to Prime Demon Mark Meliodas and stronger than Indura Derieri who is stronger than True Body Ludoshel.

But yeah the main problem is finding out where the Original Demon is on the scaling chain.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@Peter

In the last chapter Sinner was beating Ludoshel.

4C Mael is also most likely not stronger than Indura Derieri and Monspiet. The Indura were stomping True Body Ludoshel when the weaker Ludoshel in Margaret's body had a PL of 201,000. 4C Mael was only stated as above 200,000 and lost to King whose Spirit Spear seems on par with Sinner. As you said, Ludoshel was initially stomping Sinner despite Ludoshel being currently weakened.

The Indura are most likely above everyone except Sunshine Mael, The One Escanor and ON Zeldris. Prime Meliodas does not seem strong at all anymore especially with AM Meliodas being so weak now in PL and the scaling.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Ludoshel was initially stomping The Original Demon though. King also stomped 4C Mael who terrified Elizabeth who is comparable to Prime Demon Mark Meliodas and stronger than Indura Derieri who is stronger than True Body Ludoshel.

But yeah the main problem is finding out where the Original Demon is on the scaling chain.

You do realize that meliodas was never in his prime when he betrayed his clan right? Are u aware that elizabeth was the reason he was weakened right?

 

[Maxnumb231]

@Peter

In the last chapter Sinner was beating Ludoshel.

4C Mael is also most likely not stronger than Indura Derieri and Monspiet. The Indura were stomping True Body Ludoshel when the weaker Ludoshel in Margaret's body had a PL of 201,000. 4C Mael was only stated as above 200,000 and lost to King whose Spirit Spear seems on par with Sinner. As you said, Ludoshel was initially stomping Sinner despite Ludoshel being currently weakened.

The Indura are most likely above everyone except Sunshine Mael, The One Escanor and ON Zeldris. Prime Meliodas does not seem strong at all anymore especially with AM Meliodas being so weak now in PL and the scaling.

Yet we have a confirmation that him and maels rivalled each other. Not only that zeldris feared meliodas before he met Elizabeth. Prime meliodas>everyone else but mael and the gods

 

[Zezu1995]

sinner vs ludo had ludo beating BASE sinner.. then sinner buffed and they seemed equal , but ludo still had the upper hand then sinner buffed again and got stronger than ludo but by how much we dont know since mael stopped the fight

 

[Muuuuh]

Basically I see the tiering as:

Mael (With Sunshine) > The One Escanor > ON Zeldris > King >= Sinner >= Ludoshel > 4C Mael> Cusack and Chandler > AM Meliodas

King, Sinner and Ludoshel are the most confusing. The three of them are a bit comparable to each other. They're at least above 4C Mael, but below ON Zeldris.

I agree with this, make sense to me

 

[Peter1129]

@IMade True Body Ludoshel >> Base Original Demon. But you put Original Demon >= Ludoshel n your scaling chain.

4C Mael is definitely not just slightly above 200k. He scared Elizabeth who was confident enough to simultaneously take on both Indura Derieri and Indura Monspeet at the same time. And Nakaba also stated in one of the Q&A that the size and pair of wings a goddess has pretty much symbolizes their power. And the Volume Extra redraws confirm that 4C Mael has 3 pairs of ridiculously huge wings. Which is consistent with him terrifying Elizabeth who is stronger than Ludoshel.

Also that wasn't Prime Assault Mode Meliodas that was Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas.

 

[Maxnumb231]

The way I see the scaling:

Prime meliodas>=< Mael>>> The One escanor>Zeldris>King= induras>ludo>The Sinneer( initially).

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@Maxnumb

Assault Mode Meliodas was the form of his prime as we are told. Current Assault Mode was even stated to be superior to his prime in the past and it only has a PL of 142,000.

Pretty simple understanding and scaling of feats and statements. AM Meliodas is just really weak now in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Peter1129]

@IMade Prime Meliodas is stronger than True Body Ludoshel in his Demon Mark state. His Assault Mode is far above that. And we literally see when he finally returned to his Prime after his fight with Escanor that he could casually stomp Zeldris w/ God who is slightly weaker than Vessel Ludoshel who is 201k.

The Assault Mode we saw during the fight with Escanor was Post-Revival not Prime.

 

[Maxnumb231]

@Maxnumb

Assault Mode Meliodas was the form of his prime as we are told. Current Assault Mode was even stated to be superior to his prime in the past and it only has a PL of 142,000.

Pretty simple understanding and scaling of feats and statements. AM Meliodas is just really weak now in the grand scheme of things.

Okay assault mode is his prime transformation BUT that doesnt mean his power in its overall qas it was back then. Melascula STATED meliodas is entering a state where the commandments feared. A STATE. That literally dont mean hes above his prime power.

^this panel proves that meliodas was STILL reverting into his old self and not only that his power already has grown stronger aftermath.

 

[Maxnumb231]

If his limit is 142k why did zeldris say "zeldris is awful lot strong" and hes acknowledging hes far above everyone else. Like why would his PL be 142k meanwhile mael rivals meliodas. Not only that meliodas after regressing to his Prime made DKs magic useless

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Your scan literally shows and says "Ironically, he's gotten stronger than he ever was before." It's blatant confirmation his current Assault Mode has surpassed his prime.

Nakaba has also revealed to us that Assault Mode is 142,000 in PL.

The numbers, statements and feats are consistent with this. The only thing you're using as evidence is "Past Mael = Prime Meliodas" which isn't even consistent with anything. A current Post-Noon Mael is greater than ON Zeldris who was stomping the 201,000 Ludoshel that is above the 142,000 AM Meliodas.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Reminder people here who doesnt see the scaling.

Kings sunflower was NULLIFIED despite how powerful king was for stomping 4C mael, he ain't shit to DKs magic. Meanwhile we have meliodas who surpassed DKs magic without a hint of struggle.

Mael surpassing DKs magic is unknown since its questionable whether he did since all he did was melt the sword. Not really use a magical attack.

 

[Peter1129]

This is my scaling chain starting from Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas. Also I'm not including Prime Assault Mode Meliodas, The One Mael and a bunch of other chapters that are unknown on the scaling chain.

True Wings King >>> 4C Mael >> Prime Demon Mark Meliodas ~ Prime Elizabeth >> Indura Monspeet ~ Indura Derieri >> True Body Ludoshel >> Base Original Demon > Vessel Ludoshel > Zeldris w/ God >> True Form Chandler > True Form Cusack >>> Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas

 

[Maxnumb231]

Your scan literally shows and says "Ironically, he's gotten stronger than he ever was before." It's blatant confirmation his current Assault Mode has surpassed his prime.

Nakaba has also revealed to us that Assault Mode is 142,000 in PL.

The numbers, statements and feats are consistent with this. The only thing you're using as evidence is "Past Mael = Prime Meliodas" which isn't even consistent with anything. A current Post-Noon Mael is greater than ON Zeldris who was stomping the 201,000 Ludoshel that is above the 142,000 AM Meliodas.

His fight with escanor was a past events. Why did u think merlin merlin said "meliodas is regressing to meliodas of old"? The line is connevted to one another and this is not hard to grasp. If anything consistent statements of Prime meliodas debunks your argument being a rival to mael or the opposite etc. Not only that zeldris feared meliodas as well.

Nakaba revealed his PL at that time not in his prime. Are we forgetting that meliodas made mael retreat in NNT movie special chapter?

 

[Zezu1995]

tbh ludo vs induras wasnt finished he was gonna go all out vs them but got stopped by liz imo

 

[Peter1129]

@Maxnumb We've been over this Darkness isn't magic. Meliodas simply overpowered Zeldris w/ God who is comparable to Vessel Ludoshel with sheer power and not magic.

 

[Maxnumb231]

The scan is conncted to one of another and it clearly shows meliodas WAS NOT IN HIS PRIME. So please tell me how consistent your argument is when merlin said he was still regressing to his prime self NOT only that. Once he did he stomped zeldris which had DKs magic on.