N.Y.S.S.S.T Round one (Zabuza vs Miyamoto.)

[BakiHanma18]

Baki Dou Volume 3 - Chapter 31, Page 3, 5, 6, 7, 15, 16.
So false means that the author statement are not good?

Right, like how Oliva's max deadlift is apparently a ton, but he can bench several ton helicopters (which would be impossible with that deadlifting max feat as his lifting strength). It's a fallacy called "Death of the Author", basically, the author said that human reaction time is 0.5 seconds, which is why that move works, but he also wants to say Yujiro can dodge a lightning bolt, which would be impossible if the first statement were true, so we don't use the 0.5 second timeframe

 

[Zaratthustra]

Ok, then how about that everytime Musashi precog one of Baki's moves, the manga panel show Musashi eyes? Also they fought to a distance of likely two meters apart. Does is says somewhere else the distance he can do it? Otherwise it's just for close combat.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Ok, then how about that everytime Musashi precog one of Baki's moves, the manga panel show Musashi eyes?
Also they fought to a distance of likely two meters apart. Does is says somewhere else the distance he can do it? Otherwise it's just for close combat.

No, Burden of Proof Fallacy dictates that you must have proof of the positive claim (Musashi needs eye contact to use telepathy). I could just as easily say "No, the distance and eye contact has nothing to do with telepathy, it's just the way the scene is set".

 

[Rocker1189]

No, Burden of Proof Fallacy dictates that you must have proof of the positive claim (Musashi needs eye contact to use telepathy). I could just as easily say "No, the distance and eye contact has nothing to do with telepathy, it's just the way the scene is set".

No burden of proof is on you, you are the person saying that he can use it through a mist and you are the person claiming he can do it outside of situations were he has not.

 

[BakiHanma18]

No, Burden of Proof Fallacy dictates that you must have proof of the positive claim (Musashi needs eye contact to use telepathy). I could just as easily say "No, the distance and eye contact has nothing to do with telepathy, it's just the way the scene is set".

No burden of proof is on you, you are the person saying that he can use it through a mist and you are the person claiming he can do it outside of situations were he has not.

1) You are talking about an entirely different thing, but okay

2) I'm literally waiting for proof, you're just gunna have to be patient

 

[Zaratthustra]

I've posted the number of the pages and which chapters it focuses on eye and then he hit happens. It's the way the author illustrated it which may or not show how the precog works.

I at least pointed at what I'm talking about, but you still have nothing even in a few hours. Musashi's precog was first said to be lock on the target, then telepathy on the brain signals, then muscle movements, then near future sight.

Also what's the range of it? As in the manga it's just likely two meters between Baki and Musashi. Without further information, statement from Manga, you can't say its range is bigger.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If he only has 2 Meter range on his Precog than Zabuza can just Snipe him with a Water Dragon or something.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I've posted the number of the pages and which chapters it focuses on eye and then he hit happens. It's the way the author illustrated it which may or not show how the precog works.
I at least pointed at what I'm talking about, but you still have nothing even in a few hours. Musashi's precog was first said to be lock on the target, then telepathy on the brain signals, then muscle movements, then near future sight.

Also what's the range of it? As in the manga it's just likely two meters between Baki and Musashi. Without further information, statement from Manga, you can't say its range is bigger.

All the actual scene shows is that Musashi looks at Baki while using precog, not that he needs to

Musashi has 2 different precogs: telepathy and sight. I'm waiting for scans of the sight precog that can see things that haven't happened yet.

The range is unknown, as just because it happens at 2 meters doesn't mean it's limited to 2 meters

 

[Zaratthustra]

It also doesn't mean its more than just 2 meters.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It also doesn't mean its more than just 2 meters.

Exactly. He needs feats of using it at farther ranges than that.

 

[BakiHanma18]

It also doesn't mean its more than just 2 meters.

Right, which is why the range is unknown

 

[Zaratthustra]

Yeah, unknown but you can't then say he will precog Zabuza who will start from afar

30ft = 9.144m. This is enough for him to cast Hidding in the Mist + Clones.

 

[BakiHanma18]

So I'll say when I have the scans for the sight precog, but as of right now, I see no reason why Musashi doesn't precog either Hidden Mist or Water Clones via telepathy, amp to full power key due to Extransensory Perception and Enhanced Sixth Sense, and annihilate Zabuza before he can even weave the signs for Water Clones or Water Dragon respectively

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yeah, unknown but you can't then say he will precog Zabuza who will start from afar
30ft = 9.144m. This is enough for him to cast Hidding in the Mist + Clones.

Zabuza also physical starts with CQC, which will be the end of his life

 

[Zaratthustra]

Did you even read my commets from above? Combatants start at 30ft afar from each other. 30ft is equal to 9.144m which it's 4.557 times bigger than Musashi's shown distance of precog.

Hidding in the Mist is only one sign and Water Clone is signless.

He will likely start with Hidding in the Mist, he's a Sillent Killer specialized shinobi.

 

[Rocker1189]

Zabuza also physical starts with CQC, which will be the end of his life

He actually starts with a clone which goes into CQC after putting up the mist. So no it wont end his life tiwould end a clones life, if the clone does not decapitate him using mist cover in the first place.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ninjas also have replacement jutsu which is exactly what Zabuza used the moment Naruto threw a kunai his way. Him starting in cqc himself (for whatever reason) just has him kawarimi right out of there, and dog Musashi with clones, water prisons and dropping a water dragon on everything.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Did you even read my commets from above? Combatants start at 30ft afar from each other. 30ft is equal to 9.144m which it's 4.557 times bigger than Musashi's shown distance of precog.
Hidding in the Mist is only one sign and Water Clone is signless.

He will likely start with Hidding in the Mist, he's a Sillent Killer specialized shinobi.

Right, so Musashi uses ES and EP to realize he shouldn't hold back, Zabuza uses HM to try to obscure the field*, Zabuza summons Water Clones, and then goes in for CQC while his clones set up in different areas around the mist. As soon as CQC starts, Zabuza is done

• I still don't have the scans, so I won't include his sight precog until I have them

 

[Rocker1189]

Right, so Musashi uses ES and EP to realize he shouldn't hold back, Zabuza uses HM to try to obscure the field*, Zabuza summons Water Clones, and then goes in for CQC while his clones set up in different areas around the mist. As soon as CQC starts, Zabuza is done

• I still don't have the scans, so I won't include his sight precog until I have them

Completely wrong.

Zabuza uses mist, then summons water clones.

The clones go into cqc, he defeats maybe a couple them, then out of the mist gets destroyed by a water dragon.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

His clones are what enter cqc first, not him. See the bridge fight in Wave Arc where surrounded Tazuna and Team 7 immediately after using Kirigakure.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Ninjas also have replacement jutsu which is exactly what Zabuza used the moment Naruto threw a kunai his way. Him starting in cqc himself (for whatever reason) just has him kawarimi right out of there, and dog Musashi with clones, water prisons and dropping a water dragon on everything.

He's not going to be fast enough after Musashi switches keys from Base to Full Power.

 

[Rocker1189]

He's not going to be fast enough after Musashi switches keys from Base to Full Power.

speed is equalized I dont know what you are talking about and this guy does not have a speed amp, you do know as well that kawamiri is way faster than anything else ninja do, they literally do it from any position without fail at any point.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Zabuza also physical starts with CQC, which will be the end of his life

He actually starts with a clone which goes into CQC after putting up the mist. So no it wont end his life tiwould end a clones life, if the clone does not decapitate him using mist cover in the first place.

https://youtu.be/pZ5DrvGgGq0


Replacing Kakashi with Musashi in this scenario, 1:15, Musashi kills the water clone, Musashi's Extrasensory Perception alerts him of Zabuza, Zabuza is dead

 

[BakiHanma18]

He's not going to be fast enough after Musashi switches keys from Base to Full Power.

speed is equalized I dont know what you are talking about and this guy does not have a speed amp, you do know as well that kawamiri is way faster than anything else ninja do, they literally do it from any position without fail at any point.

I already said like 5 posts ago that Musashi will almost immediately switch to his Full Power Key

It literally goes from equal speed to Musashi being it a significantly stronger and faster key

 

[Rocker1189]

https://youtu.be/pZ5DrvGgGq0


Replacing Kakashi with Musashi in this scenario, 1:15, Musashi kills the water clone, Musashi's Extrasensory Perception alerts him of Zabuza, Zabuza is dead

Zabuza blocks or uses shunshin or kawamari or can tank a couple of hits because he is not a glass canon, realizes his power retreats into the mist and blasts him with a water dragon. Musashi is not one hitting him and Zabuza has multiple escape tools.

 

[BakiHanma18]

https://youtu.be/pZ5DrvGgGq0


Replacing Kakashi with Musashi in this scenario, 1:15, Musashi kills the water clone, Musashi's Extrasensory Perception alerts him of Zabuza, Zabuza is dead

Zabuza blocks or uses shunshin or kawamari or can tank a couple of hits because he is not a glass canon, realizes his power retreats into the mist and blasts him with a water dragon. Musashi is not one hitting him and Zabuza has multiple escape tools.

Except Zabuza isn't fast enough to do any of that

Telepathy precog and better key= GG

 

[Rocker1189]

Except Zabuza isn't fast enough to do any of that

they have the same speed he sure as hell is.

shunshin also increases speed, kawamari makes people much faster heck it is more like Musashi is not fast enough to do any of that.

 

[Zaratthustra]

You can't also switch from a key to another.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Except Zabuza isn't fast enough to do any of that

they have the same speed he sure as hell is.
shunshin also increases speed, kawamari makes people much faster heck it is more like Musashi is not fast enough to do any of that.

Wrong, for the third time, he's faster because he'll be in his FP key AND he has telepathy precog

Okay but precog GG

 

[AnonymousBlank]

How can he not be fast enough when speed is equal? The guy already succeeded in escaping Yagura when he tried to assassinate him, a kage and perfect Jin who is better than him in every way and he still managed to snake out of a village of people coming for his head.

 

[BakiHanma18]

How can he not be fast enough when speed is equal? The guy already succeeded in escaping Yagura when he tried to assassinate him, a kage and perfect Jin who is better than him in every way and he still managed to snake out of a village of people coming for his head.

For the fourth time, he'll be in a faster key almost right off the bat, and he has telepathic precog

 

[Rocker1189]

Wrong, for the third time, he's faster because he'll be in his FP key AND he has telepathy precog

Okay but precog GG

His FP key literally has the exact same speed so I dont know what you are talking about. his telepathy wont help stop the retreat he knows he would retreat but is too slow because shunshin and kawamari/

wont help.

 

[Rocker1189]

For the fourth time, he'll be in a faster key almost right off the bat, and he has telepathic precog

His key has the same speed, you cant switch keys mid match either and telepathic precog wont help him against shunshin.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Wrong, for the third time, he's faster because he'll be in his FP key AND he has telepathy precog

Okay but precog GG

His FP key literally has the exact same speed so I dont know what you are talking about. his telepathy wont help stop the retreat he knows he would retreat but is too slow because shunshin and kawamari/
wont help.

Bruh what are you talking about??? He goes from matching Baki in speed to matching Yujiro. There's an insane difference in speed

Again, what are you talking about? Zabuza tried to retreat, Musashi already knows what he'll try to do and where he's trying to go and just stop him

 

[BakiHanma18]

For the fourth time, he'll be in a faster key almost right off the bat, and he has telepathic precog

His key has the same speed, you cant switch keys mid match either and telepathic precog wont help him against shunshin.

The key difference is literally just him holding back vs not holding back, so there's no reason he can't switch keys

What can Shunshin do to stop precog???

 

[Rocker1189]

Bruh what are you talking about??? He goes from matching Baki in speed to matching Yujiro. There's an insane difference in speed

Again, what are you talking about? Zabuza tried to retreat, Musashi already knows what he'll try to do and where he's trying to go and just stop him

If it is a completely different key he cant switch to it,great then why is his speed exactly the same thing then.

except he wont be fast enough because shunshin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>normal ninja speed, the go from trackable by another ninja to having no sight of them mid movement.

 

[Zaratthustra]

The speed is equal meaning both have the same speed. Second Zabuza has speed amp vis Shunshin in result making the Shinobi faster not the reverse.

You can't switch keys for a character.

He will only know what Zabuza does if he stay in his range of 2 meters *since there no scans for a futher range*.

In those 30ft distance between them Zabuza will have enough time for Water Clone and Hidding in the Mist.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Bruh what are you talking about??? He goes from matching Baki in speed to matching Yujiro. There's an insane difference in speed

Again, what are you talking about? Zabuza tried to retreat, Musashi already knows what he'll try to do and where he's trying to go and just stop him

If it is a completely different key he cant switch to it,great then why is his speed exactly the same thing then.
except he wont be fast enough because shunshin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>normal ninja speed, the go from trackable by another ninja to having no sight of them mid movement.

Why not?

Its not, I literally just explained that

Cool, Musashi stopped a jab that blitzed him from even being thrown due to precog, so precog>Shunshin

 

[Rocker1189]

Why not?

Its not, I literally just explained that

Cool, Musashi stopped a jab that blitzed him from even being thrown due to precog, so precog>Shunshin

cause if not you could have base Naruto fight someone but then he goes sage mode.

escept it is in the page he literally havs the same speed.

it cant have blitzed him if he stopped it, that is an oxymoron.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Get this speed amp added to his page or drop it. This is why people setting up brackets usually ask for people that don't/won't have crts as it changes the match up.

How big is this speed difference? Because it seems to be the only thing in your argument that enables Musashi to get passed Zabuza's arsenal. Not that this even allowed as Zabuza is MHS+ and far faster than Musashi with unequal speed.