My Hero Academia: Return of the Top Tier Speed Revisions

[Kingofwolves999]

And so we return... at the turn of the tide...

Yeah, we're back. Upgrading some speed. Applying calcs. Getting faster. You know how it is.

Here is the calc we will be discussing.

Essentially: Lady Nagant's bullets are ridiculously faster than any other known sniper rifle bullets out there. This calculation is finding the speed of her muzzle velocity from her shooting at Deku. The speed found is about Mach 100, meaning any one who scales to 45% Deku will become baseline Massively Hypersonic

Also, in reference to the claims I've seen, Deku absolutely knows how strong a howitzer shot is. He is one of the greatest hero nerds out there, and Bakugo, who he analyzes and notes down and researches more than anyone, has a move that references a howitzer. I don't find it hard to believe at all that he looked up howitzers to see how strong they actually are as a frame of reference for Bakugo's attack.

Anywho, here's what we need to discuss:

The People Who Scale​

Obviously, this muzzle velocity needs to scale to people, as Deku at 45% can react to this. He obviously scales, since he can avoid several of Nagant's shots consecutively.

Going off of that basis, the people who scale would be:

Lady Nagant (Duh)
45% Deku (Duh)
AFO Shigaraki (Just as fast as 45% Deku if not faster at some points, its back and forth between them)
Gran Torino (Saved Deku from AFO Shigaraki and could react to him before he got faster)
High Ends (Comparable to AFO Shigaraki and Endeavor (Note: Near High Ends during the war suck at hitting things cause they couldn't stabilize, which is why they didn't blitz everyone))
USJ Nomu (Is compared to the other High Ends and Shigaraki as he is a perfect Nomu)
All Might (Weakened, can keep up with the USJ Nomu)
100% Deku (All versions prior to Final Act, just as fast as USJ All Might and gets faster, accidentally did a High Hypersonic+ feat with 1 leg)
OFA Bakugo
Nine with Tubes Broken (Can keep up with FC 100% Deku and Bakugo)
Mirko (Beat up the High Ends)
Hawks (Is the fastest Pro Hero)
Bakugo with Cluster (Reached Deku before AFO Shigaraki could hit him, and was a big part in catching up to Faux 100%)

People who should STAY High Hypersonic+ as they are demonstrably slower than those above:

Endeavor (Can fight AFO Shigaraki and react to his attacks, but is noticeably slower than him and Deku. Slower than High Ends somewhat)
Gigantomachia (Should get a possibly Massively Hypersonic, but in general seems slower than other Nomu despite being the strongest)
Kamino AM (much weaker than his prior state which is comparable to 100% Deku)
Kamino AFO (Comparable to the weakest All Might)
Wolfram (Comparable to weakest All Might)
Best Jeanist (Should be put at High Hypersonic+ rather than Unknown for his feat against AFO)

And that's that I believe.

Now for part 2:

Calc Stacking: Can this be applied further?​

One of the more... polarizing questions being asked around about this feat is: can we use the muzzle velocity to find the speed of Faux 100%. We all know the feat.

As I am the one making the blog, I decided to do some thinking and looking around for the specifics of what this would be. Here's what I got.

So, the proposal: Use a calculated attack speed to find the movement speed of a character blitzing that same attack.

Counter: This is calc stacking as per our rules.

So, lets look at the rules:

Here is the page for Calc Stacking and our rules on the subject. Immediately, I'm finding a few things that support the usage of Calc Stacking in this specific instance, rather than against.

Important thing to note: Calc Stacking Is Not Instantly Bad

This was something I was led to believe, that Calc Stacking in any scenario whatsoever is not allowed or will always yield terrible results. This is not the case. As specified in the rules, there are several instances where Calc Stacking CAN be acceptable.

• Pixel scaling over several steps is permitted, as long as the size of the scaled objects usually stays constant.

This is the most common example of calc stacking I've seen on the wiki, where we calc the size of objects to calc the size of other objects, as long as consistency is maintained. This already establishes that calc stacking is not inherently flawed and, if it is consistent, can be applicable.

• Using the calculated speed of a projectile to calculate the speed of a character dodging said projectile on the very same occasion is usually permitted, as long as the projectile wouldn't have changed its speed mid flight.

This is similar to our function, but not exact. It does however set a precedent going forward: "You can find the speed of a character dodging a projectile if the speed of the projectile is consistent/hasn't changed at all from when it was calculated."

• Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar.

And here is the biggest stopping block, at first glance. This shows that attacks will not always be the same speed, meaning condition 2 of dodging a projectile cannot be met unless that projectile is demonstrably comparable to the calculated one. "Being serious" is also a noted limitation, meaning even if the character is "trying harder," it will not be the same speed as the calculated projectile unless proven.

Thus, with all of this taken into account, how does the usage of Calc Stacking in the case of Nagant's Bullets fair? I believe that it meets the requirements to be allowed.

The biggest objection to its usage is obviously that "it couldn't be the exact same speed." However, in this specific case, the bullet Nagant fired is actually stated to be a higher shot velocity. For this specific instance, it is not anything vague as "being serious" or "trying harder": She is without question making this bullet faster than any bullet so far seen. Velocity is a big part for Nagant's entire character, and it is her body that's doing the shooting, so she knows precisely how fast her shots are. Yet she asserts that, with this all or nothing bulk up move, she is making her shots even faster.

This is compounded by the fact that even before this panel, Deku notes that her shots have been getting faster the closer he gets to her, a product of being closer to the initial velocity of her gun. He is still able to dodge the bullets, but even through his Danger Sense, it is getting difficult. So for her to then state that she is going to ACTUALLY increase her shot velocity, and the noticeably increasing the strength of her rifle to accomplish this, I believe it is safe to say that the bullet she fires from her gun at this point in time is AT LEAST as fast as the bullet she fired that was calculated.

If this is the case, then all other conditions have already been met. The pixel scaling being used is incredibly consistent with projectile, person and building sizes, and Deku outspeeds the projectile which, as I have argued, is superior in velocity to the previous calculated projectile. This meets the applicable requirements for Calc Stacking to lead to the least inflated results possible.

I understand this is going to cause derision, but this topic needs a dedicated response. I believe we have a genuine case of allowable Calc Stacking, but am open to disagreement or disproval.

Should this be accepted, the most that will happen is 3 people in the verse get to be 1 speed tier higher than the rest. If not, we stay at the same rating but "higher." At the end of the day, the change brought by this is to an incredibly limited amount of characters. However, its better this was said than silently argued.

And that's basically it for the revision.

 

[SuperStar]

I will wait for the counter arguments

 

[Damage3245]

Has that calc even been accepted? Neither of the comments from the CGM's in the comments for it appear to be totally accepting it, so this CRT shouldn't even be started yet.

EDIT: For the moment, I am 100% against the calc itself. It seems to require far too many assumptions to be safe to apply and getting speed from kinetic energy like this is really sus.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Has that calc even been accepted? Neither of the comments from the CGM's in the comments for it appear to be totally accepting it, so this CRT shouldn't even be started yet.

EDIT: For the moment, I am 100% against the calc itself. It seems to require far too many assumptions to be safe to apply and getting speed from kinetic energy like this is really sus.

The only part of the calc I care for is the part Therefir said was ok, which was the Mach 100 end of her shot velocity.

And if the calc itself is flawed, then I would wait for Earthy to come and argue for it, since he’s been wanting to for a while I feel.

 

[Damage3245]

Even ignoring everything suspect about the calc itself, this seems like an inconsistency in terms of scaling.

Faux 100% Deku (AKA, basically the fastest Deku we have on-screen in the manga) uses immense effort to get to Mach 100. It makes no sense for 45% Deku and everyone comparable to him to be just as fast as him travelling at 100%.

That, in combination with the dubious nature of the calc, makes me confident that this shouldn't be used.

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Even ignoring everything suspect about the calc itself, this seems like an inconsistency in terms of scaling.

Faux 100% Deku (AKA, basically the fastest Deku we have on-screen in the manga) uses immense effort to get to Mach 100. It makes no sense for 45% Deku and everyone comparable to him to be just as fast as him travelling at 100%.

That, in combination with the dubious nature of the calc, makes me confident that this shouldn't be used.

He’s only Mach 100 because we use an assumed muzzle velocity for Nagant. This calc is meant to give us a muzzle velocity for her to use in place of the currently used one.

So no one would scale to his 100% at all actually.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

And we already have a scaling inconsistency because he’s not even 2x faster than Endeavor or Kamino All Might. His peak speed is barely higher than AM at his weakest, despite being comparable to AM at his best.

 

[Damage3245]

And we already have a scaling inconsistency because he’s not even 2x faster than Endeavor or Kamino All Might. His peak speed is barely higher than AM at his weakest, despite being comparable to AM at his best.

That's not an inconsistency because we don't have a speed multiplier between weakened All Might and prime All Might.

Also, that is just because we're scaling weakened All Might to a form of 100% Izuku.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

That's not an inconsistency because we don't have a speed multiplier between weakened All Might and prime All Might.

So it’s not inconsistent for a less than 2x speed difference to exist between All Might at Kamino and Prime All Might? So he’s barely slower since he got a hole gouged into him 5 years ago and has been getting slower gradually and is constantly noted to be far slower? But the difference is less than 2x?

Even just in this fight, 45% goes from comparable to Nagant’s attack speed to making her state his speed is impossible. Yet he didn’t even get 2x faster. Are 2x speed amps an impossibility in the verse now? Is being twice as fast as someone enough to blitz all of a sudden?

 

[Gitagon]

Half the time I have no clue how fast these characters are. I wish authors would just give hard numbers for stuff so we didn't have to guess. Like I wish more authors used Mach as measurements (though it is possible to get ridiculous speed lowballs like CW Flash where for a time writers seemed to think Mach 2 was like Lightspeed or something).

 

[Gitagon]

So it’s not inconsistent for a less than 2x speed difference to exist between All Might at Kamino and Prime All Might? So he’s barely slower since he got a hole gouged into him 5 years ago and has been getting slower gradually and is constantly noted to be far slower? But the difference is less than 2x?

Even just in this fight, 45% goes from comparable to Nagant’s attack speed to making her state his speed is impossible. Yet he didn’t even get 2x faster. Are 2x speed amps an impossibility in the verse now? Is being twice as fast as someone enough to blitz all of a sudden?

Yeah, a 2x speed difference is nothing. It only seems massive the higher the level of speed you go.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Following

 

[Earthyboy]

I wasn't even ready, what the hell...

Can we at least hold off on this, since these haven't even been evaluated yet.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll lock the thread then.