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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

Damage3245 said:
We don't need to prove that this High End is abnormally durable; we need evidence to scale the other High Ends to it in the first place instead of making it a default assumption.
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Yes, you do. There have never been any stated or noted physical differences between High Ends. This High End, which was a Near High End, is directly stated to be comparable to Hood, along with the rest of his kin. There is no reasoning I can find to doubt that claim when even Garaki likes them for their strength alone. When have High Ends, with just their base stats, no quirks factored in, ever been noted to vastly differ in strength?
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Yes, you do. There have never been any stated or noted physical differences between High Ends. This High End, which was a Near High End, is directly stated to be comparable to Hood, along with the rest of his kin. There is no reasoning I can find to doubt that claim when even Garaki likes them for their strength alone. When have High Ends, with just their base stats, no quirks factored in, ever been noted to vastly differ in strength?
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Mirio stated that the Near-High Ends he was fighting were compable to Hood in strength. He isn't an authority for speaking on the capabilities of every single Nomu, including the durability of ones he hasn't even fought.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
“Outlier”

So now we’re saying direct feats in the manga, that we downplay to the absolute extreme by assuming only a tenth of it even scales, are outliers? Are you kidding Damage? The most direct feat possible is an outlier?
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The actual calc itself I don't think is an outlier (well, I think there may be a potential mistake with it but I'm waiting for the official release), but I think how we apply it to the verse can potentially be an outlier.

But a feat being "direct" or not has no bearing on whether it's an outlier or not.
 
Damage3245 said:
Mirio stated that the Near-High Ends he was fighting were compable to Hood in strength. He isn't an authority for speaking on the capabilities of every single Nomu, including the durability of ones he hasn't even fought.
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Prove their durability is different between them, please. The process to make High Ends has never been stated to vary, nor have their base physical characteristics ever changed. High Ends are > USJ Nomu. If anything, this Near High End would be weaker than Hood for being half baked. If you have a sudden refutation to all of our scaling you’ve been hiding in your back pocket, please provide it.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Prove their durability is different between them, please. The process to make High Ends has never been stated to vary, nor have their base physical characteristics ever changed. High Ends are > USJ Nomu. If anything, this Near High End would be weaker than Hood for being half baked. If you have a sudden refutation to all of our scaling you’ve been hiding in your back pocket, please provide it.
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By feats. Other High Ends have durability feats in the Small City level+ range, whereas we're claiming this one has Large Mountain level to Island level durability depending on how you interpret it. That is a huge range. You seem to be ignoring a great deal if you think it being "half baked" has anything to do with its physical characteristics when that statement was only given in relation to its intelligence.

You're also ingoring that base statistics aren't the only factor. The Quirks of each High End are different from each other; the reason why this High End could have survived is due to its combination of Quirks, not because of its durability alone. Unless there is something directly scaling other Nomu to this one, besides assumptions, I don't think it's wise to upgrade a large number of characters to this.
 
Agreed.


Unrelated to the feat; I really think Tomura is going to get New Order. I want to see what he/All For One can really do with it at its "max potential" but I'm not a fan of how Star and Stripe basically jobbed to let this plot development happen.
 
Damage3245 said:
By feats. Other High Ends have durability feats in the Small City level+ range, whereas we're claiming this one has Large Mountain level to Island level durability depending on how you interpret it. That is a huge range. You seem to be ignoring a great deal if you think it being "half baked" has anything to do with its physical characteristics when that statement was only given in relation to its intelligence.

You're also ingoring that base statistics aren't the only factor. The Quirks of each High End are different from each other; the reason why this High End could have survived is due to its combination of Quirks, not because of its durability alone. Unless there is something directly scaling other Nomu to this one, besides assumptions, I don't think it's wise to upgrade a large number of characters to this.
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There are no direct small city+ dura feats, the most we have in that front is the All Might storm and Bakugo, who also performed a far higher feat than that literally a minute beforehand. All the High Ends are coming off of scaling to USJ Nomu, so they are not exactly “limited” by feats. Also, cool, you realize that this High End is indeed as strong as Hood physically.

You’re the one making a wild assumption. You have no evidence whatsoever that this Nomu has an unknown quirk that just managed to perfectly allow it to survive this attack. And even if it did, it doesn’t matter, because it was already wounded severely when it hopped into it.

Lets go over this Nomu, shall we?

It does not have any form of shock absorption (we see Star punch it with her stand.)

It does not have any form of heat resistance (it is burned by the lasers similarly to Shigaraki)

It does not reflect damage (passively or actively)

It does not have any visible indicators to increasing its durability such as higher muscle fibers, shields, bubbles, forcefields, sinking into itself, hardening its skin or anything.

There are ZERO abilities in the ENTIRE VERSE that this Nomu displays TO EVEN HINT that it has a durability enhancing quirk. There are no statements on it being different. It was not brought to take attacks to our knowledge, only to help Shigaraki fly, as he clearly does not have Air Walk. It’s only noticeable qualities are that it flies and has regeneration, similar to Hood.

So, Damage, you tell me. What is the most absurd option?

Accepting this Nomu is impacting our scaling through a direct feat from the manga? The best feat so far? An extreme downplay upon its abilities to the bare minimum? Realizing that the verses absolute top tiers are stronger than we thought? That we have a concrete, Manga feat for a top tier after 300+ chapters?

Or assuming it has a special, super secret quirk that has never been hinted at or existed nor resembles any other defensive quirk in the entire series? That it’s a special Nomu that never used this durability enhancing Quirk until right now to survive missiles when it was going to die right after anyway? That this special quirk exists for it and it alone, with no name or explanation given? That Horikoshi intentionally omitted this Nomu’s quirk info just for it to survive so he can put trust in his fans to extrapolate that “oh of course this Nomu is just different from all the other ones, it has a durability quirk, good ol’ Hori!”

Tell me, Damage.

Which is the absurd option?
 
Sparkive said:
Random stuff (heigh) from MHA calculations not related to what you are talking about, but too small for a thread

1) in: Giant Villains' Attack Potency
Why use a 175cm size? the average Japanese man is between 170 to 172 cm (based on different sources), assuming 175 cm makes it a little heavier and stronger than it actually is.
(I don't know if there is a regulation on that, but I think that in cases of not knowing the height, the ideal would be to use the average height of the country).

2) in: Deku's 100% Speed (Shie Hassaikai Arc)
The calculation is based on the size of an average human, 170 cm. Chisaki is actually 179 cm tall.
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Don't worry, those small differences barely change the final results.
 
Ok, I wanted to bring up something minor regarding this fight. Does Shigaraki have Airwalk, because we saw him flying in the war arc right after endeavor prominence burns him but in this fight, he's pulling the same jump on jets thing that star does even though he should be capable of flight? My guess on the reason why he brought the Nomu there is because it can probably fly faster than Shigaraki for long periods of time(air walk is basically the same as Deku's Float quirk from what we've seen, and that means in order for fast movement Shigaraki needs to kick around to get bursts of speed which isn't maintainable in the long term.

(I understand why Star is using the jets it would take up a rule in order for her to fly which is a waste if she has the jets).

93b896d741bebebde630d5fb9136d2ea.jpg
 
CyborgSakumo said:
Ok, I wanted to bring up something minor regarding this fight. Does Shigaraki have Airwalk, because we saw him flying in the war arc right after endeavor prominence burns him but in this fight, he's pulling the same jump on jets thing that star does even though he should be capable of flight? My guess on the reason why he brought the Nomu there is because it can probably fly faster than Shigaraki for long periods of time(air walk is basically the same as Deku's Float quirk from what we've seen, and that means in order for fast movement Shigaraki needs to kick around to get bursts of speed which isn't maintainable in the long term.

93b896d741bebebde630d5fb9136d2ea.jpg
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Maybe AFO (who is in control of the body at this point) thinks jumping between the planes might be faster? So he’s not going in a straight line to her, which got him punched before.

Also, maybe AFO had him gave Air Walk to Nagant? They only have the quirks contained within themselves now, no copies, so she had to get it from one of them.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Does the final panel count as Cassie touching All For One?
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I'm gonna need you to spoiler tag that,

I guess, but the activation requirement of New Order is that you have to touch the object and say the name at the same time so it doesn't really matter. This Shigaraki has no name and therefore new order can't be used on him.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
What if him not having a name actually works in her favor?
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How exactly, we saw when she tried to touch him new order didn't work and she later goes on to say she can't use new order on him? I really don't think she can put a rule on him.

The only real chance she has is if she can put a rule on herself(I am now quirkless) (New Order, New Order can't be stolen) , but I still doubt she can put a rule on herself in the time it takes him to steal her quirk , but we'll see next week.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Maybe AFO (who is in control of the body at this point) thinks jumping between the planes might be faster? So he’s not going in a straight line to her, which got him punched before.

Also, maybe AFO had him gave Air Walk to Nagant? They only have the quirks contained within themselves now, no copies, so she had to get it from one of them.
Click to expand...
I don't think AFO is in control (at least not totally). I think their minds have quite literally fused, as have their vistages. We see ShiFA (that's what I'm calling him from now on) analyzing in a cartoonish style-similarly to Shiggy and we also see the lust for powerful quirks like AFO.
 
Damage3245 said:
Agreed.


Unrelated to the feat; I really think Tomura is going to get New Order. I want to see what he/All For One can really do with it at its "max potential" but I'm not a fan of how Star and Stripe basically jobbed to let this plot development happen.
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I agree. It was very lame first time I read the leaks.
 
if tomura gets spoiler... all i know is the amount of bad writing to beat him gonna be godly... another juha/madara incoming
 
I mean we could just give them the High 7-A as a likely. Like isn't that the whole point of the word likely in the first place?

Likely

"Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be favourable. This term should be used sparingly."

You can have both a low end and a high end. So we could just make them At least Low 7-B (The current Low 7-B/7-B scaling), likely High 7-A (High End Nomu potentially being durable enough to survive one missile) or whatever tier they might have via these new feats.
 
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Ehh I'm just proposing a possible route we can go with if people want to keep the Low 7-B thing as a low end and we aren't entirely sure if the High End Nomu fully scales to the missiles.
 
Peter1129 said:
I mean we could just give them the High 7-A as a likely. Like isn't that the whole point of the word likely in the first place?

Likely

"Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be favourable. This term should be used sparingly."

You can have both a low end and a high end. So we could just make them At least Low 7-B (The current Low 7-B/7-B scaling), likely High 7-A (High End Nomu potentially being durable enough to survive one missile) or whatever tier they might have via these new feats.
Click to expand...
There's nothing likely about this. The high-end Nomu basically survived the nuke. Even if we downscale it, he'd still be High 7-A. You're just reaching this point, smh. And like Therefir said, the Low 7-B+ feat was done by a mere shock-wave. A shock-wave. That much power could be summed up as a boxer barely snuffing out a candle's fire by the air pressure given off by his punch. The difference between the boxer's punch and the air pressure is ******* massive.
 
Peter1129 said:
I mean we could just give them the High 7-A as a likely. Like isn't that the whole point of the word likely in the first place?

Likely

"Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be favourable. This term should be used sparingly."

You can have both a low end and a high end. So we could just make them At least Low 7-B (The current Low 7-B/7-B scaling), likely High 7-A (High End Nomu potentially being durable enough to survive one missile) or whatever tier they might have via these new feats.
Click to expand...
I get where you are coming from, but I'm with Rusty on this one. There's very little about the feat that isn't definitive. A Nomu took 10 missiles at once, with its brain very much exposed to the damage, and managed to survive albeit with considerable damage. Keep in mind that Nomu was already charred by a giant laser-spear by Star and co. There's little doubt that if it were healthy, it would take 1 Tiamat missile no problem even if it would sustain injury.

There's no dancing around this, that Nomu together with Shigaraki are High 7-A and the rest of the high end Nomu may as well be too.
 
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