My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[Gitagon]

This whole fight has put into perspective the power of Endeavor's Prominence Burn considering the damage it could do to High-ends and Shigaraki.

I think we can conclude Endeavor > most mortal weapons bar nukes.

And basically Dabi's firepower > basically I don't know humanity.

I can't wait for the day we see go off and just unleash Prominence Burn without being interrupted.

His regular fire was already capable of some feats Endeavor is only capable off with FlashFire (flight).

 

[Theendzero13]

Spoiler

If the calc is accepted, I wonder if this would be the ratings?

10 Missiles = 15.98 GT Island level

Single Missile = 1598 MT High 7-A (Considering the Nomu survived 10 missiles, assuming they could withstand a single missile should be a fine assumption right?)

Shigaraki/Nomu Dura = High 7-A 1598 MT

Prime All Might, greater than 1598 MT = 15000 AP

1st Chapter All Might = 8000 AP (852.26 MT 7-A+)

Two Heroes All Might = 3000 AP (319.6 MT 7-A)

USJ All Might/Nomu/Shigaraki's AP less than 8000 AP, but greater than 3000 AP. Likely baseline 7-A+, or 550 MT.

Endeavor would be or close to Baseline 7-A. Since he is inferior to Kamino All Might, but can survive a hit from Shigaraki with some good damage.

Spoiler

agree

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Spoiler

If the calc is accepted, I wonder if this would be the ratings?

10 Missiles = 15.98 GT Island level

Single Missile = 1598 MT High 7-A (Considering the Nomu survived 10 missiles, assuming they could withstand a single missile should be a fine assumption right?)

Shigaraki/Nomu Dura = High 7-A 1598 MT

Prime All Might, greater than 1598 MT = 15000 AP

1st Chapter All Might = 8000 AP (852.26 MT 7-A+)

Two Heroes All Might = 3000 AP (319.6 MT 7-A)

USJ All Might/Nomu/Shigaraki's AP less than 8000 AP, but greater than 3000 AP. Likely baseline 7-A+, or 550 MT.

Endeavor would be or close to Baseline 7-A. Since he is inferior to Kamino All Might, but can survive a hit from Shigaraki with some good damage.

Spoiler

Wouldn’t Endeavor just scale to Shiggy? It’s not like he nearly dies from his hits or anything, he takes several with good damage but not bad enough he can’t just scale. And his AP should be High 7-A with Flashfire, yes?

Everyone else being baseline 7-A I can agree with, just not really Endeavor cause he’s tank king of the heroes tbh.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Spoiler

Wouldn’t Endeavor just scale to Shiggy? It’s not like he nearly dies from his hits or anything, he takes several with good damage but not bad enough he can’t just scale. And his AP should be High 7-A with Flashfire, yes?

Everyone else being baseline 7-A I can agree with, just not really Endeavor cause he’s tank king of the heroes tbh.

Spoiler

Because we know he is inferior in terms of AP and Dura to Kamino All Might, so he has to be less than 319 MT. His heat is whatever, but the force of his flames is around the same level as his dura. Since it can clash with air cannon, which can harm him.

Who is everyone else being baseline?

I'm personally never going to be okay with giving heat an AP rating for a verse without a shared energy source, I've explained my reasoning here.

 

[Earthyboy]

The calc is done.

 

[Earthyboy]

I might know a website calculator that could calculate the crater off of the explosion itself. I'll need to search for it though, I haven't bookmarked it.

 

[Earthyboy]

Also, it seemingly vaporized a shit ton of water, so we'll have to account for that as well.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Spoiler

Because we know he is inferior in terms of AP and Dura to Kamino All Might, so he has to be less than 319 MT. His heat is whatever, but the force of his flames is around the same level as his dura. Since it can clash with air cannon, which can harm him.

Who is everyone else being baseline?

I'm personally never going to be okay with giving heat an AP rating for a verse without a shared energy source, I've explained my reasoning here.

Spoiler

How do we know that?

well I guess “everyone else” would just be 45% Deku. Cause Best Jeanist scales to restraining Machia and Mirko is above the High Ends in AP. And that’s like all the top tiers if I recall.

I really don’t care if his heat has a rating or not. It’s durability negation anyway.

 

[Damage3245]

Several hits?

Endeavor's track record against Shiggy is:

1) Air Cannon to the face that knocks him flying.

2) A punch-down from Quirkless Shiggy that knocks him all the way to the ground, on top of Ryukyu and stops him so hard that Shiggy can just stand on top of him for a moment.

3) Another hit from Quirkless Shiggy as he's basically just running past Endeavor and Gran Torino. Treated like barely an obstacle.

4) Several tendrils stab straight through Endeavor.

So that's a few hits, only two of which were done with Shiggy's physicals, and one of these non-physicals hits stabbed straight through Endeavor.

 

[Gitagon]

There is something people don't consider about Mirko which I think might be true even though we have no official confirmation.

It's just something to consider especially as she is paralleled with Rappa (Kicker vs Puncher) in Vigilantes.

It might not be anything though.

But her body might not exactly be uniform in terms of stats. It's not a strange thing in the verse even with someone like Tsuyu. Some characters can have some body parts which are far stronger than other parts of their body.

For Tsuyu her arms don't seem to be special strength-wise but she obviously has superstrength with her legs and her tongue.

Rappa was the same where his arms >>> the rest of his body.

Mirko might be in Tsuyu's position but obviously stronger where her legs > the rest of her body in terms of stats.

For both rabbits and frogs, which these 2 gals are based on, they have very powerful hind legs and while quirks aren't 1:1 adaptation of the real world animals, it might be the same concept.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Several hits?

Endeavor's track record against Shiggy is:

1) Air Cannon to the face that knocks him flying.

2) A punch-down from Quirkless Shiggy that knocks him all the way to the ground, on top of Ryukyu and stops him so hard that Shiggy can just stand on top of him for a moment.

3) Another hit from Quirkless Shiggy as he's basically just running past Endeavor and Gran Torino. Treated like barely an obstacle.

4) Several tendrils stab straight through Endeavor.

So that's a few hits, only two of which were done with Shiggy's physicals, and one of these non-physicals hits stabbed straight through Endeavor.

Is Air Cannon not physical? Or are we back to saying it’s way weaker than Shiggy’s punches?

Regardless, it’s fine. He can be baseline.

Im just happy this is happening

 

[TheRustyOne]

Air Cannon did a lot less damage than Shigaraki's punch, so yeah I think it is weaker.

He was bleeding from his head and lost one of his gauntlets from that punch, while Air Cannon did rather minimal damage.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

There is something people don't consider about Mirko which I think might be true even though we have no official confirmation.

It's just something to consider especially as she is paralleled with Rappa (Kicker vs Puncher) in Vigilantes.

It might not be anything though.

But her body might not exactly be uniform in terms of stats. It's not a strange thing in the verse even with someone like Tsuyu. Some characters can have some body parts which are far stronger than others.

For Tsuyu her arms don't seem to be special strength-wise but she obviously has superstrength with her legs and her tongue.

Rappa was the same where his arms >>> the rest of his body.

Mirko might be in Tsuyu's position but obviously stronger where her legs > the rest of her body in terms of stats.

For both rabbits and frogs, which these 2 gals are based on, they have very powerful hind legs and while quirks aren't 1:1 adaptation of the real world animals, it might be the same concept.

We kinda already accept that since we know her legs are what allowed her to survive the first High End attack by cancelling the force. So all her power is in her legs as opposed to everyone else where it’s all over.

IDK how that would be formatted on a profile though.

 

[Damage3245]

We kinda already accept that since we know her legs are what allowed her to survive the first High End attack by cancelling the force. So all her power is in her legs as opposed to everyone else where it’s all over.

IDK how that would be formatted on a profile though.

Could say "X level with Rabbit Quirk". One possibility.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Air Cannon did a lot less damage than Shigaraki's punch, so yeah I think it is weaker.

He was bleeding from his head and lost one of his gauntlets from that punch, while Air Cannon did rather minimal damage.

Yeah, that’s true. AFO overloaded Air Cannon with a ton of strength enhancers to do the damage he did to All Might, so the base quirk being below their physicals is logical

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Could say "X level with Rabbit Quirk". One possibility.

So like,

Spoiler

7-A, higher with Rabbit

Mountain level (baseline), Mountain level+ with Rabbit (one shots High Ends)

 

[Theendzero13]

There is something people don't consider about Mirko which I think might be true even though we have no official confirmation.

It's just something to consider especially as she is paralleled with Rappa (Kicker vs Puncher) in Vigilantes.

It might not be anything though.

But her body might not exactly be uniform in terms of stats. It's not a strange thing in the verse even with someone like Tsuyu. Some characters can have some body parts which are far stronger than other parts of their body.

For Tsuyu her arms don't seem to be special strength-wise but she obviously has superstrength with her legs and her tongue.

Rappa was the same where his arms >>> the rest of his body.

Mirko might be in Tsuyu's position but obviously stronger where her legs > the rest of her body in terms of stats.

For both rabbits and frogs, which these 2 gals are based on, they have very powerful hind legs and while quirks aren't 1:1 adaptation of the real world animals, it might be the same concept.

Spoiler

To me it was always pretty obvious that mirko legs scale above the rest of her body so i agree

 

[Theendzero13]

So like,

Spoiler

7-A, higher with Rabbit

Mountain level (baseline), Mountain level+ with Rabbit (one shots High Ends)

Spoiler

7-A, up to high 7-A with rabbit

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I highly doubt if Mirko threw a punch she would do basically anything to a High End

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Yeah I'm going to press X to doubt on this whole Mirko discussion with the exception of the one who was clearly stated to be physically weak, all of the high ends could harm Mirko(and her legs) and take damage from her, while her punches probably aren't super strong in comparison to her legs, sayins an X with Rabbit implies that only some parts of her body have the quirk when clearly it's her entire body, just her legs are stronger, but not in a different tier or anything.

 

[Gitagon]

Iida is probably in that category too with his legs>arms.

One thing I've always wanted for Iida since seeing the position of Tensei's engines is for him to get arm engines too. Imagine Iida with 4 engines on all 4 limbs instead of just his legs.

Arm engines could probably be used to accelerate punches in the same manner Endeavor does with FlashFire Fist techniques.

Something like rocket fist.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I also kind of disagree with the whole premise of the High End's durability being stronger than the AP we see in this fight high-end's taking hits from Mirko and damaging Mirko .

Their AP and durability are comparable, this looks pretty clear cut to me. All the top tier's AP and durability should scale to the downscaled tier whatever we choose it to be.

 

[Damage3245]

I also kind of disagree with the whole premise of the High End's durability being stronger than the AP we see in this fight high-end's taking hits from Mirko and damaging Mirko .

Their AP and durability are comparable, this looks pretty clear cut to me. All the top tier's AP and durability should scale to the downscaled tier whatever we choose it to be.

What do you mean "premise"? It's a basic fact that we don't scale a character's AP straight from their own durability.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

What do you mean "premise"? It's a basic fact that we don't scale a character's AP straight from thier own durability.

So we don't scale a character's AP to their own durability when they're able to harm characters who can harm them, I guess we need to change like half of the profiles on this site because that's the justification for a good number of character profiles.

 

[Damage3245]

So we don't scale a character's AP to their own durability when they're able to harm characters who can harm them, I guess we need to change like half of the profiles on this site because that's the justification for a good number of character profiles.

No, because you're not scaling them to their own durability there but to the other character's durability.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

No, because you're not scaling them to their own durability there but to the other character's durability.

Ok then follow my logic here

Mirko Harms High End and takes hit from high End

Mirko's AP scale to high End's durability.

Mirko's durability scales to her AP otherwise her legs would be breaking whenever she used an Attack.

High End harms Mirko.

High End's AP scales to its own durability.

 

[ÆONS]

Ok then follow my logic here

Mirko Harms High End and takes hit from high End

Mirko's AP scale to high End's durability.

Mirko's durability scales to her AP otherwise her legs would be breaking whenever she used an Attack.

High End harms Mirko.

High End's AP scales to its own durability.

True.

 

[Dreymannn]

Outlier.

 

[ÆONS]

Outlier.

sus

 

[Gitagon]

Mirko AP > High-ends durability before they started using durability enhancing quirks.

Mirko AP = Tentacle Nomu's durability when it used the rib cage quirk to defend itself.

I highly doubt this was the only High-end with a defensive quirk. Though it's the only one we saw counter Mirko's kicks.

 

[SuperStar]

I highly doubt if Mirko threw a punch she would do basically anything to a High End

Spoiler

Which is why it's not a regular High-End, unless after the war they made upgrades for the High Ends.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Spoiler

Where is the idea this High End is any level above the other High Ends in durability alone coming from? It was literally being used as a jet for Shigaraki to get to Star, and no statement on its own capabilities have been given to suggest it is far beyond the other High Ends in any way. It’s not like Shigaraki specifically brought this High End due to its durability and knew Star was going to throw god damn Missiles at him, nor did he even know the full limitations of New Order in the first place.

They couldn’t upgrade the High Ends because Garaki is in jail. So best AFO could do is give them more quirks? But that would destabilize them I’m pretty sure since they’re already on a delicate balance and take so much effort just to hold the quirks they DO have. So I highly doubt these High Ends are any physically different from Hood. I suppose they’ve had longer time to stabilize? But that doesn’t even mean much since we know that’s not for physical ability.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Mirko AP > High-ends durability before they started using durability enhancing quirks.

Mirko AP = Tentacle Nomu's durability when it used the rib cage quirk to defend itself.

I highly doubt this was the only High-end with a defensive quirk. Though it's the only one we saw counter Mirko's kicks.

That doesn't really change the scaling chart at all,

Mirko's AP >= High End's durability

Mirko's AP = Mirko's Dur

High End's Dur = Nuke

All high Ends can harm Mirko

All high End's AP equal to Nuke.

 

[Sparkive]

Random stuff (heigh) from MHA calculations not related to what you are talking about, but too small for a thread

1) in: Giant Villains' Attack Potency
Why use a 175cm size? the average Japanese man is between 170 to 172 cm (based on different sources), assuming 175 cm makes it a little heavier and stronger than it actually is.
(I don't know if there is a regulation on that, but I think that in cases of not knowing the height, the ideal would be to use the average height of the country).

2) in: Deku's 100% Speed (Shie Hassaikai Arc)
The calculation is based on the size of an average human, 170 cm. Chisaki is actually 179 cm tall.

 

[BlackeJan]

Spoiler

So who wants to bet that Star gets her quirk stolen and she dies

 

[TheRustyOne]

So the scaling changing with that.

Spoiler

The presents a problem with the scaling, since this means Endeavor can take a hit from a High 7-A character. Which means he can't be baseline, not even 200 MT is enough. But we know he's inferior to All Might who'd be around 319 MT as shown in the chart from the movie. Rivet Stab was able to impale Endeavor but not All Might, Endeavor is inferior to even Kamino All Might.

This breaks the graph, are you suggesting we ignore it?

 

[Damage3245]

Spoiler

Where is the idea this High End is any level above the other High Ends in durability alone coming from? It was literally being used as a jet for Shigaraki to get to Star, and no statement on its own capabilities have been given to suggest it is far beyond the other High Ends in any way. It’s not like Shigaraki specifically brought this High End due to its durability and knew Star was going to throw god damn Missiles at him, nor did he even know the full limitations of New Order in the first place.

They couldn’t upgrade the High Ends because Garaki is in jail. So best AFO could do is give them more quirks? But that would destabilize them I’m pretty sure since they’re already on a delicate balance and take so much effort just to hold the quirks they DO have. So I highly doubt these High Ends are any physically different from Hood. I suppose they’ve had longer time to stabilize? But that doesn’t even mean much since we know that’s not for physical ability.

Spoiler

We don't need to prove that this High End is abnormally durable; we need evidence to scale the other High Ends to it in the first place instead of making it a default assumption.

 

[Damage3245]

So the scaling changing with that.

Spoiler

The presents a problem with the scaling, since this means Endeavor can take a hit from a High 7-A character. Which means he can't be baseline, not even 200 MT is enough. But we know he's inferior to All Might who'd be around 319 MT as shown in the chart from the movie. Rivet Stab was able to impale Endeavor but not All Might, Endeavor is inferior to even Kamino All Might.

This breaks the graph, are you suggesting we ignore it?

Spoiler

Or maybe this new calc is an outlier, since the vast majority of the characters relevant to the scaling chain don't have feats or calcs anywhere close to this.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

So the scaling changing with that.

Spoiler

The presents a problem with the scaling, since this means Endeavor can take a hit from a High 7-A character. Which means he can't be baseline, not even 200 MT is enough. But we know he's inferior to All Might who'd be around 319 MT as shown in the chart from the movie. Rivet Stab was able to impale Endeavor but not All Might, Endeavor is inferior to even Kamino All Might.

This breaks the graph, are you suggesting we ignore it?

Spoiler

I never agreed with the graph to begin with.

To begin; we don’t even know what “Quirk Numbers” is supposed to even represent. Is that the maximum strength he is capable of doing? Is that the amount of energy left in OFA? Is it just a showing that the quirk is decreasing in effectiveness as his body degrades? You can see in the chart that there are ups and down with Prime AM’s power, was he getting sporadically stronger and weaker? That contradicts the mechanics of OFA, where he should be a constant upward slope, not an up and down average.

The quirk numbers thing just doesn’t seem feasible to me. I appreciate the graph giving us a good look at the disparity in strength Prime AM had vs his weaker versions, but using it for scaling does not seem concrete at all to me, especially since Dave doesn’t even know about OFA when he calculated these numbers, so he doesn’t even know what exactly to look for.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

So the scaling changing with that.

Spoiler

The presents a problem with the scaling, since this means Endeavor can take a hit from a High 7-A character. Which means he can't be baseline, not even 200 MT is enough. But we know he's inferior to All Might who'd be around 319 MT as shown in the chart from the movie. Rivet Stab was able to impale Endeavor but not All Might, Endeavor is inferior to even Kamino All Might.

This breaks the graph, are you suggesting we ignore it?

Spoiler

I think baseline 7-A+ Endeavor would be the best option here