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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

Star's expression looked prepared, kind of. I would be disappointed if her quirk is stolen but there's a bigger chance that it isn't going to be.
It's likely that Star has imposed a Rule on herself.

New Order is truly a mess narrative-wise. It's going to eat up a lot of text on pages just explaining how it works and how it gets bypassed like right now. I don't think it would be optimal to write a final battle full of New Order narratives and Deku figuring it out.
 
That ending basically convinced me that he isn't taking it, I'd be shocked if he actually took it.

And very interested to see how Horikoshi balances the story and prevents Shigaraki from just killing everyone at U.A. in like two days
 
Regardless of how it goes. I just hope people don't get really angry over him taking or not taking her Quirk./SPOILER]
 
Shigaraki taking New Order would raise the stakes and make things way more interesting, plus Horikoshi has had a lot of fun with this Quirk, so I doubt he's going to write it off that quickly.

New Order has some weaknesses, it wouldn't make Shigaraki invincible by any means, and Deku still has a Quirk to show us.
 
Does Shoto use Hell Spider in the movie or not?

Also I noticed Flashfreeze from Heroes Rising is not in Shoto's profile.
 
Metalballrun said:
Star's expression looked prepared, kind of. I would be disappointed if her quirk is stolen but there's a bigger chance that it isn't going to be.
It's likely that Star has imposed a Rule on herself.

New Order is truly a mess narrative-wise. It's going to eat up a lot of text on pages just explaining how it works and how it gets bypassed like right now. I don't think it would be optimal to write a final battle full of New Order narratives and Deku figuring it out.
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From the way she smiled at the face of her enemy, it seemed she had other ideas besides what the pilot tried to tell her... maybe. I'm just speculating and hoping her quirk doesn't get stolen so soon.
 
I’m confused on how she caught those missiles. If they just slammed into her hand, why didn’t they go off? Also, she was that close to the blast without her super strength and didn’t even lose her hearing?? ALSO ALSO, I think this chapter shows that her giant is always = to her in strength, as those missiles were able to pull her and her giant forward, which only makes sense due to her removing her strength rule, unless someone wants to make the argument an All Might tier couldn’t easily resist the force of those missiles in flight.
 
Another possible limit to New Order being with Shigaraki is his name, he pointed out himself that even he doesn't know who he is. What if Shigaraki is incapable of using New Order on himself at all, because he doesn't know who he is between AFO, Tomura, and Tenko?

Either way, unless Izuku has been using 100% this whole time. We need time, current Izuku cannot defeat Shigaraki regardless of New Order. He himself admits that he needs OFA's full power in order to stop Shigaraki. And I don't think the final "battle" will be Shigaraki and Izuku not fighting and just talking it out until Tenko is back.
 
AtomicSekiro said:
I’m confused on how she caught those missiles. If they just slammed into her hand, why didn’t they go off? Also, she was that close to the blast without her super strength and didn’t even lose her hearing?? ALSO ALSO, I think this chapter shows that her giant is always = to her in strength, as those missiles were able to pull her and her giant forward, which only makes sense due to her removing her strength rule, unless someone wants to make the argument an All Might tier couldn’t easily resist the force of those missiles in flight.
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The giant is stronger than her, it did more damage to Shigaraki than she could with her enhanced strength. Also the missiles not blowing up instantly is just fiction, don't think about it too hard. Why doesn't everyone lose their hearing when Bakugo fires off a Howitzer Impact.
 
TheRustyOne said:
The giant is stronger than her, it did more damage to Shigaraki than she could with her enhanced strength. Also the missiles not blowing up instantly is just fiction, don't think about it too hard. Why doesn't everyone lose their hearing when Bakugo fires off a Howitzer Impact.
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The giant punched when she had enhanced strength. Her giant = her. Star was practically right next to the blast and is barely injured, if at all.
 
Her having enhanced strength has literally nothing to do with what I said. It did more damage to Shigaraki than she did with her enhanced strength, I never said anything else. You said the giant was equal to Star, it is not equal to Star it's stronger than her.

The strength of the giant changing depending on her strength be enhancing or not means nothing, because it will still be stronger than her regardless of her strength. I can see its strength changing based on her own strength, but it is stronger than her. It was shown to be stronger than her.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Another possible limit to New Order being with Shigaraki is his name, he pointed out himself that even he doesn't know who he is. What if Shigaraki is incapable of using New Order on himself at all, because he doesn't know who he is between AFO, Tomura, and Tenko?

Either way, unless Izuku has been using 100% this whole time. We need time, current Izuku cannot defeat Shigaraki regardless of New Order. He himself admits that he needs OFA's full power in order to stop Shigaraki. And I don't think the final "battle" will be Shigaraki and Izuku not fighting and just talking it out until Tenko is back.
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Way I see things, Deku’s chances are at the highest they are gonna get unless we go through a very long couple of arcs before the final confrontation.

Deku should be much stronger after the month of isolation he just had, where he clearly has attained far higher mastery of the OFA quirks. So maybe with that, coupled with his own skill and whatever the 2nds quirk is, he can give Shiggy a run for his money without needing to spam 100%.

The issues pop in with the unknown factor of “New Order” and the 2nd’s quirk.

Basically, we’re just gonna have to see what all these 2 can even do before judging what either could do to the other.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Way I see things, Deku’s chances are at the highest they are gonna get unless we go through a very long couple of arcs before the final confrontation.

Deku should be much stronger after the month of isolation he just had, where he clearly has attained far higher mastery of the OFA quirks. So maybe with that, coupled with his own skill and whatever the 2nds quirk is, he can give Shiggy a run for his money without needing to spam 100%.

The issues pop in with the unknown factor of “New Order” and the 2nd’s quirk.

Basically, we’re just gonna have to see what all these 2 can even do before judging what either could do to the other.
Click to expand...
"Unless I draw out OFA's full power... I can't stop any of this." Didn't realize Izuku is a liar, even though he knows what his Quirks are he's convinced that he can't stop this unless he has 100%. And he isn't even planning on killing Shigaraki, he wants to try and save him first.

Note: Should probably save speculation until after we see the results, since the Quirk isn't even his yet.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Another possible limit to New Order being with Shigaraki is his name, he pointed out himself that even he doesn't know who he is. What if Shigaraki is incapable of using New Order on himself at all, because he doesn't know who he is between AFO, Tomura, and Tenko?

Either way, unless Izuku has been using 100% this whole time. We need time, current Izuku cannot defeat Shigaraki regardless of New Order. He himself admits that he needs OFA's full power in order to stop Shigaraki. And I don't think the final "battle" will be Shigaraki and Izuku not fighting and just talking it out until Tenko is back.
Click to expand...
I agree with this so much, people seem to forget that with a full 100% rage barrage Deku could not take down a Shigaraki whose body was beginning to break down, even with the assist of a prominence burn from Endeavor.

To be honest, I don't think the final fight will be completely 1 one 1, while it might end like that I imagine there will be a good bit of assistance from other characters to give Deku a serious chance.

New Order could be a game-changer but we would need to see how creative AFO/Shigaraki is with it. A lot of the things we've seen in this fight are combos only possible because of Star's team.

The one-touch uses of it on people don't really matter for Shigaraki as AFO/Decay already basically gives Shigaraki this ability(though it could be useful for cross verse matchups against opponents with certain resistances).

I also don't think he could use it on himself either with his whole identity crisis, but I am curious on how that super-strength rule works does it work as a multiplier on your existing strength, an additive, or does it simply have a max limit on how strong it can make you regardless of the user. If the identity crisis thing was resolved could he use it to make himself All might tier in strength, as Shigaraki should be physically stronger than star without new order involved?

The main uses of New order are going to be based on creative uses on non-living objects which has a lot of potential but I don't think it'll be broken.
 
So is the High End that survived the explosion comparable to the other High Ends in terms of durability? Cause if so, we’re gonna end up with High 7-A Miruko and Endeavor /SPOILER]
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
So is the High End that survived the explosion comparable to the other High Ends in terms of durability? Cause if so, we’re gonna end up with High 7-A Miruko and Endeavor /SPOILER]
Click to expand...
We shouldn't be scaling them without supporting evidence.

It's like trying to scale all Pro Heroes to be equal to each other in stats because they're part of the same group.
 
TheRustyOne said:
"Unless I draw out OFA's full power... I can't stop any of this." Didn't realize Izuku is a liar, even though he knows what his Quirks are he's convinced that he can't stop this unless he has 100%. And he isn't even planning on killing Shigaraki, he wants to try and save him first.

Note: Should probably save speculation until after we see the results, since the Quirk isn't even his yet. It is possible, not saying it isn't, just that I have doubts that Horikoshi is a good enough writer to make this work.
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CyborgSakumo said:
I agree with this so much, people seem to forget that with a full 100% rage barrage Deku could not take down a Shigaraki whose body was beginning to break down, even with the assist of a prominence burn from Endeavor.

To be honest, I don't think the final fight will be completely 1 one 1, while it might end like that I imagine there will be a good bit of assistance from other characters to give Deku a serious chance.

New Order could be a game-changer but we would need to see how creative AFO/Shigaraki is with it. A lot of the things we've seen in this fight are combos only possible because of Star's team.

The one-touch uses of it on people don't really matter for Shigaraki as AFO/Decay already basically gives Shigaraki this ability(though it could be useful for cross verse matchups against opponents with certain resistances).

I also don't think he could use it on himself either with his whole identity crisis, but I am curious on how that super-strength rule works does it work as a multiplier on your existing strength, an additive, or does it simply have a max limit on how strong it can make you regardless of the user. If the identity crisis thing was resolved could he use it to make himself All might tier in strength, as Shigaraki should be physically stronger than star without new order involved?

The main uses of New order are going to be based on creative uses on non-living objects which has a lot of potential but I don't think it'll be broken.
Click to expand...
He didn’t have 4 of the 6 quirks in OFA the first time he fought Shigaraki. What he had was no where near the full power of OFA. So I don’t see how he’s a “liar” if he’s gotten better at mastering ALL of them and has none left to awaken.

His percentage has 100% gotten better, his body is stronger, his skill is higher, he has all the quirks he should have. Time doesn’t care about whether he thinks he’s ready or not. I’m simply saying that regardless of what he believes, he has the tools to perform far better against Shigaraki than last time, who so far has shown no noticeable improvements physically, though he does seem to have better quirks.

If he’s stuck at the same way he was in the war, then yes, he’s ******, but he’s literally been training TO unlock OFA’s full power. So him being more prepared now doesn’t make him a liar, especially when “OFA’s full power” is vague and either alludes to having all the quirks or using 100% with no problem. The first one he has, the second he doesn’t have the time to get.

The biggest issue for Deku is regeneration from Shigaraki. If he gets some way to stop his regeneration, Shigaraki is ****** and gonna wind up like he did when Aizawa entered the battlefield. None of his other quirks are helpful much if Deku can avoid most of them, and the strength difference isn’t going to be as high as it was.

Shigaraki’s best quality is surviving like a cockroach and then striking when people have tired out. That’s how he wins. He’s nowhere near as strong as 100%, or as fast, he just survives. It’s a matter of breaking through the regen, then he’s just dead or forced to overexert himself again.

And yes, Deku wanting to save him is going to matter a lot in the fight and probably help or damn him. I’m just stating that Shigaraki is overrated in a rematch unless he gets New Order. Without it, I’m saying it would be even, and at absolute worse, slightly tilted in Shiggy’s favor due to regen + variety.

Stats are not going to be the sole factor for their next fight like they were last time, I feel. So it’s going to come down to skill with quirks and how to get around your opponents advantages, of which I believe they are even. Shiggy tanks damage and regens, Deku avoids it all together or just deals with it. Far be it from me to predict how their fight is actually going to go, especially assuming Shigaraki gets New Order, but that’s just what I’m seeing currently. They are around each other’s level.
 
Damage3245 said:
We shouldn't be scaling them without supporting evidence.

It's like trying to scale all Pro Heroes to be equal to each other in stats because they're part of the same group.
Click to expand...
There is supporting evidence, are you forgetting this is a near high end, not an actual one, and they are all stated to be nearly equal to Hood which would scale to Endeavor which would scale to the Hospital High Ends and basically the rest of the scaling chain
 
CyborgSakumo said:
There is supporting evidence, are you forgetting this is a near high end, not an actual one, and they are all stated to be nearly equal to Hood which would scale to Endeavor which would scale to the Hospital High Ends and basically the rest of the scaling chain
Click to expand...
The Near-High End aren't stated to be weaker than the High Ends. They just can't think for themselves. And that statement for them being at least as strong as Hood isn't a limitation on their stats. There's no reason given for why it can't be more durable.
 
Damage has a point. This High-End just being more durable is a possibility, we can't really prove or disprove that. Unless I'm missing a point where this NHE was injured by someone.

However Shigaraki's current dura scales to All Might, and All Might injures people who can harm him. Prime All Might is more durable/stronger than Shigaraki, and using the graph gives use the dura/strength of 1 Chapter All Might and Two Heroes All Might in comparison to his Prime. Which scales to certain people as we all know.

Though once again, the rating is a assumption until the chapter comes out and the calc is evaluated.
 
CyborgSakumo said:
Ok It looks like the cloud dispersion was a lot bigger than I originally thought, I'm not sure exactly how big this is, but the radius of that shockwave looks like a few hundred kilometers. (The explosion looks small in comparison). Can someone calc this?

ri0d4Tq.png
Click to expand...
HOLY SHIT
 
Damage3245 said:
The Near-High End aren't stated to be weaker than the High Ends. They just can't think for themselves. And that statement for them being at least as strong as Hood isn't a limitation on their stats. There's no reason given for why it can't be more durable.
Click to expand...
This High-End and Shigaraki took the same amount of damage from Star's Fist Bump to the Earth, and we already know that Shigaraki is High-End/USJ All Might level in terms of strength and durability, so stop pushing the narrative that this particular High-End is somehow special compared to the other ones when there's no proof that is the case.
 
Therefir said:
This High-End and Shigaraki took the same amount of damage from Star's Fist Bump to the Earth, and we already know that Shigaraki is High-End/USJ All Might level in terms of strength and durability, so stop pushing the narrative that this particular High-End is somehow special compared to the other ones when there's no proof that is the case.
Click to expand...
Don't tell me to do anything Therefir, thank you kindly.
 
If the calc is accepted, I wonder if this would be the ratings?

10 Missiles = 15.98 GT Island level

Single Missile = 1598 MT High 7-A (Considering the Nomu survived 10 missiles, assuming they could withstand a single missile should be a fine assumption right?)

Shigaraki/Nomu Dura = High 7-A 1598 MT

Prime All Might, greater than 1598 MT = 15000 AP

1st Chapter All Might = 8000 AP (852.26 MT 7-A+)

Two Heroes All Might = 3000 AP (319.6 MT 7-A)

USJ All Might/Nomu/Shigaraki's AP less than 8000 AP, but greater than 3000 AP. Likely baseline 7-A+, or 550 MT.

Endeavor would be or close to Baseline 7-A. Since he is inferior to Kamino All Might, but can survive a hit from Shigaraki with some good damage.
 
Last edited:
Shigaraki and the High-ends in general are monsters to blunt force. It is only with elemental attacks that one can have some hope of damaging them gravely.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I wonder kind of damage would a possible "200%" Smash due to Shigaraki. From a 100% attack with the Fa Jin combo.
Click to expand...
I think Hori has kept away from having Shigaraki use strength enhancers or any durability quirks in this fight. They will probably be saved for Deku's 100% + Fa Jin punches.
 
TheRustyOne said:
If the calc is accepted, I wonder if this would be the ratings?

10 Missiles = 15.98 GT Island level

Single Missile = 1598 MT High 7-A (Considering the Nomu survived 10 missiles, assuming they could withstand a single missile should be a fine assumption right?)

Shigaraki/Nomu Dura = High 7-A 1598 MT

Prime All Might, greater than 1598 MT = 15000 AP

1st Chapter All Might = 8000 AP (852.26 MT 7-A+)

Two Heroes All Might = 3000 AP (319.6 MT 7-A)

USJ All Might/Nomu/Shigaraki's AP less than 8000 AP, but greater than 3000 AP. Likely baseline 7-A+, or 550 MT.

Endeavor would be or close to Baseline 7-A. Since he is inferior to Kamino All Might, but can survive a hit from Shigaraki with some good damage.
Click to expand...
I think it's sensible.
 
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