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My Hero Academia: America Brings Speed Upgrades

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TimmyTurnero said:
Is it possible for him to be rated as SOL using this? He could blitz all of the jets, which could also react and dodge Tomura's attack too. We even see that one of them moved after Star jumped off but still avoided the blast. Him outpacing them and blitzing them before they could finish the word "fire" should be enough to upscale him, right?
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The reason the upscale is happening is because of how absurd the Faux 100% blitz of Lady Nagant's enhanced bullets are.

79.57% SoL = 45% Izuku < Lady Nagant's Bullet < Lady Nagant's enhanced bullet <<< Faux 100%

He'd likely be the fastest Relativistic+ rated character, I'll add that to his speed rating, but I don't believe it's enough for upscaling. At least, I find Faux 100% far more impressive of a blitz. And it was blitzing something that scaled higher than the Jets.

Does anyone agree/disagree?
 
Second, is Rewind AFO not being Speed of Light. As his only form of scaling is just being faster than his Weakened self, which is not enough to jump the gap. Regardless of him scaling to his Prime self or not, we don't know if AFO was equal or a bit slower than Prime All Might. As such, he cannot be rated as Speed of Light.
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I’m just curious, what about Rewind AFO’s feat of casually blitzing the U.S. jets? From what it looks like, he even seemed to hit them before any of them could even perceive him moving toward them… (that second part’s kinda an assumption tbf)

Edit: Oh nvm, that feat already got addressed. ☠️
 
There’s actually one big contention I have though:

While I can see 45% Deku scaling to Incomplete Shigaraki during the PLW Arc, the Shigaraki during the Star fight is significantly above that former version.

PLW Shigaraki was only 75% complete, whereas Shigaraki during the Star fight was 97-98%.

So how’d 45% Deku scale to that latter version?
 
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Doubt there's much of a difference, after all the Near High-End that Shigaraki brought with him was fast enough to fool Star and the pilots, and his wings were good enough to allow Shigaraki to avoid the jets' laser beams for a moment.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
The reason the upscale is happening is because of how absurd the Faux 100% blitz of Lady Nagant's enhanced bullets are.
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Alright, I see.
TheRustyOne said:
79.57% SoL = 45% Izuku < Lady Nagant's Bullet < Lady Nagant's enhanced bullet <<< Faux 100%

He'd likely be the fastest Relativistic+ rated character, I'll add that to his speed rating, but I don't believe it's enough for upscaling. At least, I find Faux 100% far more impressive of a blitz. And it was blitzing something that scaled higher than the Jets.

Does anyone agree/disagree?
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But even so, I think I disagree. While the Fuax chain is big, I still think AFO's feat should warrant a boost for himself. AFO as a base should already be scaling to this 79.57% value, and reverting to his Prime has made him an stronger and faster. While descending he even says his body feels as light as silk. Considering this, along with the feat of just straight up blitzing through the jets I personally believe he should be baseline lightspeed.
 
Upscaling someone to SoL should not be treated as something lightly like blitzing a Rel+ character, the reason why Deku becoming SoL is even remotely acceptable is not only because he "blitzed" the Rel+ bullet, but moved dozens of times faster than it.

We know that Young AFO's Quirks were getting stronger, but his body was no longer in its prime, and his physique was becoming weaker and more fragile the younger he got.

Rewind AFO is fine where he is, plus you would screw up the scaling as now you have to make characters like Bakugo FTL, making him scale higher than the guy who he is scaling from.
 
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@TheRustyOne By the way, while Mirio being SoL is fine, I don't necessarily agree with him becoming FTL with Permeation.

The reason I say this is because while Permeation does allows him to "move" faster than whatever running speed he has, it's not like he has trouble reacting to his own speed (even despite using his repulsion speed in close spaces), and we have no reason to assume he can move faster than his own combat speed.

Mirio's first key should be changed from "High Hypersonic reactions and combat speed, higher movement speed with Permeation" to "High Hypersonic reactions and combat speed, High Hypersonic with Permeation" (the movement speed part is redundant).

The same will be for his new speed rating, "Speed of Light reactions and combat speed, Speed of Light with Permeation".
 
That's grace, right? 48 hours and it's okay to apply?

I agree too, for what it's worth. The feat was already there, all the anime did was clarify it further.
 
57Dev said:
Okay. so I assume this fall under the 24 hour category since it's pretty blatant and there has been no opposition ?
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A calc implementation like this isn't something that I'd consider to fall under "extremely blatant, self-evident revisions", so it'd be 48 hours. It's not like someone breathing fire out of their mouth and being proposed to have Breath Attack & Fire Manipulation.
 
It's 48 hours as this regards changing the speed level to a large amount of characters.

A self-evident revision would be the application of something like, giving Fire Manipulation for a who showed off that he could shoot fire now or something like that.

I believe the standard 48 hour grace period should be followed here.

Edit: Ninja'd
 
TheRustyOne said:
That seems fine to me.

Random-Helper323 and 57Dev

It hasn't even been 24 hours yet, so the thread is not okay yet. You can read our rules regarding the application of CRTs here.
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TheRustyOne said:
It's 48 hours as this regards changing the speed level to a large amount of characters.

A self-evident revision would be the application of something like, giving Fire Manipulation for a who showed off that he could shoot fire now or something like that.

I believe the standard 48 hour grace period should be followed here.

Edit: Ninja'd, and we both mentioned fire manipulation.
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This is literally what I just said. I thought enough staff support might be here, and I know the grace is 48 hours once getting three or four staff approvals. I appreciate your work ethic in responding, but all the same it's best not to assume I'm trying to stir up trouble. I'm just trying to help out the person who messaged before me.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
This is literally what I just said. I thought enough staff support might be here, and I know the grace is 48 hours once getting three or four staff approvals. I appreciate your work ethic in responding, but all the same it's best not to assume I'm trying to stir up trouble.
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Huh? When did I say you were trying to stir up trouble?
 
TheRustyOne said:
It's 48 hours as this regards changing the speed level to a large amount of characters.

A self-evident revision would be the application of something like, giving Fire Manipulation for a who showed off that he could shoot fire now or something like that.

I believe the standard 48 hour grace period should be followed here.

Edit: Ninja'd
Click to expand...
Okay so new abilities fall under 24 hour revision. Got it. I never really take part in CRT's that much nor do I plan to make one so I never tried to wrap my head around the rules for that.
 
I'm neutral on this proposal because I don't think there's any real way of proving that Star and Stripe dodged the electromagnetic waves specifically in Tomura's attack. Tomura's attack has two components to it; a blast of air and simulaneous release of electromagnetic radiation. While the latter understandably moves at the speed of light there's no good reason to assume Tomura's entire attack is lightspeed.

When we see Star and Stripe after the attack was performed, it doesn't look like the blast of air hit her though it would be hard to tell if it did since it's an air blast and she's superhumanly durable but even granting that she did, there is no way of knowing if she truly was able to evade the Radio Waves part of the attack.

Reason why I'm neutral about this instead of disagreeing with it is that there's no real way to prove it one way or the other. I can totally understand people interpreting the scene to mean her dodging fully out of the way of the lightspeed Radio Waves too.


On the topic of scaling, I do disagree with backscaling this to 45% Izuku and others in the Paranormal Liberation War Arc because Tomura was at 75% completion during the war and is more like 97% or 98% in the Star and Stripe fight. Though I know others have mentioned this may not matter since the Near-High End is supposedly comparable to Tomura in speed but I'm not convinced on that point that it is enough for everyone to be Rel+ through a tenuous scaling like that. If such scaling is fine with others, I won't complain.
 
Damage has already brought up my primary concern in this.
Shigaraki's attack was a combination of Air Cannon + Radio Waves (and Heavy Payload) and while the latter is scientifically light speed (AFAIK actually travels slower inside Earth, and only LS in a vacuum), the former is obviously not. To my understanding, Tomura uses the Air Cannon as a supplement for the range of Radio Waves (like what he previously did in Jaku), making whether Star dodged the radio waves themselves or the air blast that carried said waves indeterminate. I personally always saw it as the latter.
As much as how appealing the upgrade is, I'd prefer if it was more conclusive.

I'm staying out of the scaling chain discussions.
 
I might be getting lost here, but are you implying the jets and Star were hit by the Radio Waves part of the attack and only dodged the Air Cannon? Wouldn't that have destroyed the electronics of the jets themselves?

And furthermore, we can see in the anime that they dodged a wave of electricity and lightning that represents the radio waves, not just a wave of mere air.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm neutral on this proposal because I don't think there's any real way of proving that Star and Stripe dodged the electromagnetic waves specifically in Tomura's attack. Tomura's attack has two components to it; a blast of air and simulaneous release of electromagnetic radiation. While the latter understandably moves at the speed of light there's no good reason to assume Tomura's entire attack is lightspeed
When we see Star and Stripe after the attack was performed, it doesn't look like the blast of air hit her though it would be hard to tell if it did since it's an air blast and she's superhumanly durable but even granting that she did, there is no way of knowing if she truly was able to evade the Radio Waves part of the attack.
Click to expand...

The EM waves are visualized as the electricity fx in the shot. Which moves alongside the entire attack. So there is no reason to assume that the entire attack is not at the same speed.
 
Damage3245 said:
Snip
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I see. I understand your concerns even if I don't agree with them. As I feel like the series itself, with the visuals shown, that Star indeed avoided the Radio Waves. The anime has help showed that the Radio Waves, as the electric effect, was indeed avoided. As this is fiction, I can accept the fact the attack all moved at the same speed as we're shown.

The idea Star avoided the Air Cannon but was hit by the Radio Waves is unsupported in my eyes.

Considering your neutral state, I don't feel there's any need to go more into this point, so I'll just focus on the scaling part.

We know for a fact that both Star and the Jet pilots confused the Near High-End jumping out of the water as being Shigaraki. If the Near High-End wasn't comparable to Tomura, who they've seem propel himself with enhanced strength, they would've instantly noticed it wasn't him.

They were heavily focused on Shigaraki's location as well, who even admits that he needed to wait for the right time. To early and they'd notice the switch. A second's delay would've been a fatal error. The Nomu being incomparable to Shigaraki's speed makes this entire plan fall flat on its face.

Not only that. But we know for a fact that Tomura's physical durability is unchanged, as he and the Near High-End takes comparable amount of damage from Star's attack. It would be extremely weird if Tomura's speed is faster, while his durability remains unchanged. His physical strength is unknown.

While not impossible, I'm not alright with betting on an assumption that he's faster, without a statement or showing that he is indeed faster. The reason we have Incomplete Shigaraki and Complete Shigaraki, is because there is no evidence to suggest 75% Shiggy and 98% Shiggy are different from each other.

The changes to Shigaraki's body began happening after the battle with Star, as his body adapted against the "singularity". As Garaki stated, the hardware that is the body needs to adapt to handle the increase in memory, which is the Quirks. Shiggy's body wasn't fully fused with the AFO Quirk, which is what the percentages are.

The closer the AFO quirk is fused with Shigaraki, the higher the percentage. Once he reached 100%, his body began to change. His body was evolving to handle the evolving Quirks. This is my reasoning for why Tomura during his fight with Star shouldn't be faster/stronger than his battle in Jaku.

Basically. The percentages aren't a measure of Tomura's power/strength, just a measure of how much the AFO Quirk has fused into his body. Once the fusion finished and it became one with Tomura, his body began to evolve to handle the massive amount of Quirks.
 
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Therefir said:
I might be getting lost here, but are you implying the jets and Star were hit by the Radio Waves part of the attack and only dodged the Air Cannon? Wouldn't that have destroyed the electronics of the jets themselves?
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One interpretation of the feat is that the Radio Waves were being "carried" by the Air Cannon. Notably, air/wind pressure refracts radio waves and affects how radiation are dispersed in general, though I'm not an expert at this field to expand on it. I find it more likely than the Air Cannon itself being light speed as well alongside the Radio Waves.

Though of course, with a little suspension of disbelief, the second interpretation is possible too. Another interpretation is that the Air Cannon isn't SOL, but the Radio Waves are, and the former just helped the propagation of the latter which maintains its own speed as it moved toward SnS. Both of these support the OP, I think.
 
Metalballrun said:
One interpretation of the feat is that the Radio Waves were being "carried" by the Air Cannon. Notably, air/wind pressure refracts radio waves and affects how radiation are dispersed in general, though I'm not an expert at this field to expand on it. I find it more likely than the Air Cannon itself being light speed as well alongside the Radio Waves.

Though of course, with a little suspension of disbelief, the second interpretation is possible too. Another interpretation is that the Air Cannon isn't SOL, but the Radio Waves are, and the former just helped the propagation of the latter which maintains its own speed as it moved toward SnS. Both of these support the OP, I think.
Click to expand...
Nah, the visuals show them together. And we see that the anime didn't separate them.

We see the electric effect, which is how the Radio Waves are depicted, get avoided. We don't see the Radio Waves first and Air Cannon following after it.

Air does not slow down the Speed of Light by a significant degree and would still be moving at 99.97% the Speed of Light.

It's far simpler to say they dodged the attack instead of assuming they were hit by the EMP but avoided the Air Cannon only, as that's not supported by anything beyond speculation. We see they avoided both of them in the anime and we never see them get hit by Radio Waves.

And the idea the EMP was slowed down to vastly lower speed and was carried by Air Cannon is not possible, not unless the verse itself says so.

While this is fiction and anything is possible, we'd need actual proof and not pure speculation for that.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
I suppose Damage makes a point for the back scaling part, but I still think the calculation seems reasonable.
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Have you read my response to Damage as well?

Or should I change your vote against the scaling?

Edit: To explain more clearly. Including what I said above as well.

Is Tomura during the Star and Stripe fight physically superior to himself during the All-Out War? The answer at a glance may seem speculative. Nothing states Tomura is stronger or that he remained the same. His body does evolve after the Star fight, that's why she isn't scaling to Prime All Might level. Just to make that clear.

However, it wouldn't mean it'd be impossible for him to be superior. Normally this would be an split and could become a possibly/likely rating. But there is evidence that supports one notion, though it doesn't 100% prove it. That is the fact that Tomura and the Near High-End still have comparable durability to each other.

Considering the fact his durability did not change, it makes it far more likely that his speed is unchanged as well, even if we don't have conformation.

This is why we accept the High 6-C+ feat scaling to All-Out War Arc Tomura, despite taking place during the Star and Stripe battle just like the Relativistic+ feat. It's also why we don't have another key for Tomura during this arc, as we have good reason to believe he was not physically superior.

As such, Tomura's speed not increasing is better supported than assuming his speed did increase but his durability didn't for some reason. As it takes less assumptions to claim. We only ever have conformation of Tomura's body evolving after the Star and Stripe's fight, which is slightly more support for this as well.

To claim Relativistic+ doesn't scale to 75% Tomura, one needs to explain why his speed doesn't scale but his durability does or doesn't. There is no such way to prove this without relying on another assumption. As I said, it's not impossible, but it's more likely that Tomura's physical stats overall didn't increase between the arcs.
 
I find the arguments for Star dodging the radio waves to be far more compelling, so I’m still for the upgrade.

As for the scaling, I think Rusty’s argument makes sense.
TheRustyOne said:
We know for a fact that both Star and the Jet pilots confused the Near High-End jumping out of the water as being Shigaraki. If the Near High-End wasn't comparable to Tomura, who they've seem propel himself with enhanced strength, they would've instantly noticed it wasn't him.

They were heavily focused on Shigaraki's location as well, who even admits that he needed to wait for the right time. To early and they'd notice the switch. A second's delay would've been a fatal error. The Nomu being incomparable to Shigaraki's speed makes this entire plan fall flat on its face.

Not only that. But we know for a fact that Tomura's physical durability is unchanged, as he and the Near High-End takes comparable amount of damage from Star's attack. It would be extremely weird if Tomura's speed is faster, while his durability remains unchanged. His physical strength is unknown.

While not impossible, I'm not alright with betting on an assumption that he's faster, without a statement or showing that he is indeed faster. The reason we have Incomplete Shigaraki and Complete Shigaraki, is because there is no evidence to suggest 75% Shiggy and 98% Shiggy are different from each other.

The changes to Shigaraki's body began happening after the battle with Star, as his body adapted against the "singularity". As Garaki stated, the hardware that is the body needs to adapt to handle the increase in memory, which is the Quirks. Shiggy's body wasn't fully fused with the AFO Quirk, which is what the percentages are.

The closer the AFO quirk is fused with Shigaraki, the higher the percentage. Once he reached 100%, his body began to change. His body was evolving to handle the evolving Quirks. This is my reasoning for why Tomura during his fight with Star shouldn't be faster/stronger than his battle in Jaku.

Basically. The percentages aren't a measure of Tomura's power/strength, just a measure of how much the AFO Quirk has fused into his body. Once the fusion finished and it became one with Tomura, his body began to evolve to handle the massive amount of Quirks.
Click to expand...
 
I will just note that I have never personally been convinced of the scaling that the Near-High End from the Star and Stripe arc should by default be assumed to be identical in statistics to every other Near-High End or High End Nomu, so Rusty's counter-argument doesn't persaude me but I can definitely see where he's coming from and can't fault him for that line of thinking.
 
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