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they literally assassinated when they got naruto to gaslight him into killing himself ans saving konohaPain was a good villian for what type of show he was in
He at least has a reason for what he does and even states exactly why he thinks that way
The speeches he gives are kinda meant to be shallow since he only sees the world one way and justifies all his actions through the hardship he experienced
I'm not saying it's god tier but it's very high up for a Shonen aimed at mostly young teenagers
He's kind of a "baby's first good villian" for most people and that's why people bring him up in debates like this
if they guy killed his father figure to show his determination to acheive his goal, making him change his mind half way is stupid and makes jiraiya's death redundant
this is what i remembered happening at least, unless i missed something