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Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

JoshSSJGod said:
Playing through Stories 2 again, seems I missed even more stuff Oltura can do. For example it can nullify abilities, make people unable to attack through attack sealing (basically it makes people unable to even do stuff like basic attacks) and more status effects such as paralysis and burn.

There is also an argument for Type 7 immortality for Oltura since even after it "died" to the previous Razewing Rathalos it was still active in it's larval state which it used to be born again.
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When moth like EDs are among the most haxxed monsters in the verse.
Mr._Bambu said:
Oh, I forgot about that calc. Forgive me, I'd remembered the Barroth calc for so long, it must've taken root in my mind, hah.

Raging Brachydios is fine, I agree the variant monsters seem to generally be on par with at least baseline Elder Dragons. Or, at least, not far removed from them. I'm talking about basic Brachydios. Him I'm iffy on.
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There's also ED level monsters who have powerful variants for example Rajang is already ED level and it's variant it capable of fighting Kushala Daora (even tho Kush has the environment advantage) with the implications of jang winning that exchange and then there's Magnamalo who outright beats Bazelgeuse in a turf war as well as ties with EDs then it's variant manages to stalemate Malzano (who we've established is powerful even for ED standards similar to Nergigante and Velkhana).

The portable games similar love making everyone ED level lol!
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
When moth like EDs are among the most haxxed monsters in the verse.

There's also ED level monsters who have powerful variants for example Rajang is already ED level and it's variant it capable of fighting Kushala Daora (even tho Kush has the environment advantage) with the implications of jang winning that exchange and then there's Magnamalo who outright beats Bazelgeuse in a turf war as well as ties with EDs then it's variant manages to stalemate Malzano (who we've established is powerful even for ED standards similar to Nergigante and Velkhana).

The portable games similar love making everyone ED level lol!
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Well yeah. We already have Rajang at ED level. This is moreso about the lesser *****.
 
Not that Oltura isn't nuts with all its abilities, but where does it mention that Oltura is on par with the Black Dragons, etc.? If we're using the cultist statements, wasn't it kind of a plot point that they were wrong about both its intentions and its nature; that it didn't actually want to wipe the world clean and start over, just to be born and all, and that was just Zellard projecting his pre-existing nihilism and disdain for humanity? We know that its larval state one-shots a Nergigante, that's impressive. But Fatalis level?

Ena does make vague statements about it threatening the world or whatnot, but that's just from the characters' perspective, and I'm pretty sure they're not thinking "this thing can destroy the world because it can fight and kill Fatalis," they're just thinking "this thing has driven armies of monsters mad, destroyed villages just by moving around, and the strongest creature I've ever seen, a Nergigante, was nothing but fodder to it... The world would be in danger if this already-dangerous thing matures!"

Do in-universe people like Ena or Zellard even know how strong Fatalis is, given that it's pretty much seen as a myth and only guild-higher ups are really aware of its nature?
 
Sigilavox said:
Not that Oltura isn't nuts with all its abilities, but where does it mention that Oltura is on par with the Black Dragons, etc.? If we're using the cultist statements, wasn't it kind of a plot point that they were wrong about both its intentions and its nature; that it didn't actually want to wipe the world clean and start over, just to be born and all, and that was just Zellard projecting his pre-existing nihilism and disdain for humanity? We know that its larval state one-shots a Nergigante, that's impressive. But Fatalis level?

Ena does make vague statements about it threatening the world or whatnot, but that's just from the characters' perspective, and I'm pretty sure they're not thinking "this thing can destroy the world because it can fight and kill Fatalis," they're just thinking "this thing has driven armies of monsters mad, destroyed villages just by moving around, and the strongest creature I've ever seen, a Nergigante, was nothing but fodder to it... The world would be in danger if this already-dangerous thing matures!"

Do in-universe people like Ena or Zellard even know how strong Fatalis is, given that it's pretty much seen as a myth and only guild-higher ups are really aware of its nature?
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Its supported by in-game descriptions and cutscene memos such as this one.
241201984_588154452320220_1524326904921066526_n.jpg

Plus its a Likely rating anyway so its optional.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Its supported by in-game descriptions and cutscene memos such as this one.
Plus its a Likely rating anyway so its optional.
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Fair enough about the likely, but since Fatalis is not relevant at all to the story at this or any point (not even for a post-game "It was this guy all along!" bit), so it not being present in this second-person statement is pretty permissible. Plus, I don't think being able to affect the world's fate requires being able to contest Fatalis, since you could just kill everything else and then die to it, and that would pretty much be the same outcome as far as people and most monsters are concerned.
 
On another note, I really wish we got to revisit Oltura again in post-game.

Or, better yet, for Monster Hunter Stories 2 to actually be consistent with the one message it was telling you about the whole time - that you should not immediately go to kill-mode when presented with a beast of great and terrible power (considering this world is seemingly filled with them), and you should instead try to understand and have faith ("Just believe!"), and all that. The whole situation with Razewing Ratha, the Nergigante, your time with Reverto learning how hunters approach things, and, heck, Riders in general with people being cautious to accept them and their union with Monsties, all tie into that theme, and your grandfather practices it in just about every cutscene he has, not going for the sword when presented with an agitated Arzuros but realizing it was simply a mother guarding her babies.

The villain, Zellard, had lost faith in humanity and opted to believe in a reset button, a kill-them-all from his perspective, because he gave up on them after seeing a good friend - the only human friend he'd ever had, probably - die a seemingly meaningless death. It's hard to have faith, and easy to just throw it all away for someone like that, but that's just part of the whole equation - it's easy to go for the trigger. It's hard to try and understand, to come to terms with things and live with them.

But no, you just go for the throat, with your peace-loving grandfather being proxy'd into the killing blow!

Like, imagine how cool it would have been to have Ena realize her necklace was actually a kinship stone, passed down through her family's history, and makes the ultimate step to moving past her anger and grief of Red's death by stepping forward and reaching out to the very being that killed her friend, calming it down, and then leaving or something (after the same fight except you're overpowered or something, you can still have your cake and eat it here). Make a rematch with Ena and Oltura the level 100 equivalent quest for the game or something and give its equipment after you fight it again with Ena now a fully-fledged rider, not just an observer and all.

Or maybe you can have two endings, one where you kill it with Kyle's arrow and the other where Ena does the thing. New Game+ maybe? I don't know.

Man. I don't know how popular this opinion is, but it just makes me so sad whenever I think about it. At least the theme and fight were sweet.
 
Sigilavox said:
Fair enough about the likely, but since Fatalis is not relevant at all to the story at this or any point (not even for a post-game "It was this guy all along!" bit), so it not being present in this second-person statement is pretty permissible. Plus, I don't think being able to affect the world's fate requires being able to contest Fatalis, since you could just kill everything else and then die to it, and that would pretty much be the same outcome as far as people and most monsters are concerned.
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Again, that is what the likely rating is for since it can mean that could be able to fight Fatalis or other Black Dragon level monsters (with Fatalis in particular showing up where Oltura popped up which what we know about Safi implies it was going over to confront Oltura akin to Alatreon with Safi).
 
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This likely won't come up for a while, but I'm working on a recalculation of Zorah's AP based on melting the surface of the New World rather than blowing it up, and I'm sitting at a tentative estimate at 6-A above the mean, or Continent level+. I'm quite inexperienced with this calculation business, but the subject has caught my interest, so I'll post it here when I can properly format and source it all, and then give it a thorough look over.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Definitely not baseline, poison ain't quite AP applicable and Diablos is the peak of the non-Elder Dragons, alongside Rathalos.

Personally I'd list Diablos (and thus Rathalos and arguably Rathian) as a "possibly 6-C", based on that intel, given at other times it is made clear that Elder Dragons pose a substantially bigger threat. Obviously nab a scan from that guidebook.
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Right, i just wish that it should be more higher, 10+ GT or more but that just my wish lel
 
Sigilavox said:
@Mr._Bambu Wait. It just occurred to me. Isn't the old horizon calculator not being used anymore? Like, we use a standard horizon distance of 10 to 20 kilometers? And if so, is the existing Zorah Coral Highland horizon outdated for the purposes of calculating New World size?
Click to expand...
At ground level, I believe yes. 20 km is consistently cited as the general distance one can see. However, the horizon calculator is still referenced on the Calculations page, which to my knowledge should be official. I might have missed something but as far as I'm aware that should be fine.
 
Okay, now the Zinogre profile should be done aside from abilities for Thunderlord, which I'm adding now.

Edit: I'm a fool, there aren't any tactics or techniques. I'll add them eventually, I guess.
 
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Here's my first calculation. It's in my sandbox, and it's an upgrade for Zorah (and Xeno'jiiva by extension) to 6-A; a jump of two tiers. Let me know what issues it has. I might be able to add another component that includes atmospheric heating, but I'm unsure how to do that.

Edit: Even if we generously assume an atmospheric height of 16 kilometers, atmospheric heating just adds 1.67e19 Joules, which is 10% of 1% of 1% of the total.
 
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I mean, Deviljho's legs give out mid-suplex, so it's not a total stomp, but honestly, it's really weird yeah. I feel like that turf war was just made that way just to hype Jho up for its appearance as a Title Update monster in World. Unlike every other turf war, Diablos does literally nothing in response, not even like, kick or thrash or something.

We know that Diablos can definitely keep fighting after taking multiple face-dunks and being slammed into the ground twice by a Brute given its turf war with Anjanath and a Glavenus that most certainly weighs more than Deviljho, before it lifts them over its own head with arguably more ease than Deviljho does here to it. Same thing with Odogaron, where apparently it's okay charging a much larger Radobaan, counterattacking an extremely aggressive Tigrex that already pinned it down with its jaws, and squaring up with Vaal Hazak, but just gives up when confronted with a lumbering Deviljho who walks toward it at the speed of mollasses.

Nothing against Jho, since Savage is my third favorite monster of all time, but still. I wish there was more of a fight, or something.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
That Black Diablos statement is really weird when ya consider her turf war with Jho.
Click to expand...
The funniest thing is that this book was made after all the Title Updates, so could be seen as more up-to-date information straight from canon than the very game it's discussing. They had to have already finished and shipped the Deviljho/Black Diablos turf war, then gone and approved the statement that Black Diablos scares Jho away afterward.
 
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Interesting to note that it mentions tempered "individuals" and not tempered Diablos. Implies that tempered monsters in general are ED tier which would make sense considering the role they played in World. Makes me wonder how strong Tempered Elder Dragons are or Arch Tempered EDs.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Interesting to note that it mentions tempered "individuals" and not tempered Diablos. Implies that tempered monsters in general are ED tier which would make sense considering the role they played in World. Makes me wonder how strong Tempered Elder Dragons are or Arch Tempered EDs.
Click to expand...
The book has separate bits on Tempered and Arch-Tempered monsters. Lemme see if I can get a hold of any juicy info.
 
Page on Tempered Monsters. They provoke identical threat responses from Scoutflies as Elder Dragons (blue), nothing new but there's that I guess.

ph46jzo.jpg
7xBH16W.jpg
oza8284.jpg
 
Yeah, some of the stuff in that book is really badass. I also just found a page on scoutflies that explicitly confirms a blue coloration indicates "Elder Dragon-level power".
 
In non-VS news, how have people been enjoying Sunbreak now that a few weeks have passed? I myself have been greatly enjoying the postgame loop and the general gameplay; plus, the armor quality across the board, even on lower ranked monsters, is kind of nuts. Never saw the kind of diversity we get here with Iceborne. I think it's due to renovation of the deco system to make it harder to build straight damage, in addition to more innate skill ranks and fewer slots for armor pieces in general. I like this system, frankly.
 
Sigilavox said:
In non-VS news, how have people been enjoying Sunbreak now that a few weeks have passed? I myself have been greatly enjoying the postgame loop and the general gameplay; plus, the armor quality across the board, even on lower ranked monsters, is kind of nuts. Never saw the kind of diversity we get here with Iceborne. I think it's due to renovation of the deco system to make it harder to build straight damage, in addition to more innate skill ranks and fewer slots for armor pieces in general. I like this system, frankly.
Click to expand...
Once I got to MR 100 a few days after Sunbreak dropped (i work fast) and beat Scorned Magna and got his GS I've been kinda just vibing till the title update. I achieved all the goals I set for myself with having 4 variations of my main GS build (basic one, dereliction version, then both previous builds with Magna GS cause it looks cooler). I am curious on what's to come since we're getting at least 5 new monsters in the next title update in August which makes me wonder if these are the monsters that got cut from base rise due to COVID forcing the main game's ending to become free dlc.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Once I got to MR 100 a few days after Sunbreak dropped (i work fast) and beat Scorned Magna and got his GS I've been kinda just vibing till the title update. I achieved all the goals I set for myself with having 4 variations of my main GS build (basic one, dereliction version, then both previous builds with Magna GS cause it looks cooler). I am curious on what's to come since we're getting at least 5 new monsters in the next title update in August which makes me wonder if these are the monsters that got cut from base rise due to COVID forcing the main game's ending to become free dlc.
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What's your build? Asking as a GS Main.

Though it's not optimal in the slightest, I like using Shagaru GS for the extreme build comfort, coupled with Latent Power (yes, I know WEX is better) to hit 100% esp. when I play aggressively, with a side helping of 80 eff. hits of purple, Quick Sheathe, Evade Window, Free Meal, Stun Res, and Good Luck.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Maybe i'm bit pushing it but can we get a higher result of that? Baseline 6-C result is a bit too low-end
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New information you might appreciate: According to the original thread that resulted in the wiki's standard horizon distance of 20km and therefore led to the downgrade of Kushala's feat, the given horizon distances are a low end of 20km on hazy days and a high end of 50km in very clear conditions, and, well... I think we can all agree that the blue sky in the distance is clear as hell, aside from clouds below. So we might be able to recalc Kushala (and therefore all base Elders) using a radius of 50 km, rather than 20 km.

(50000/4.257)^2*1/12*(9900*pi*50000^2*1.003) = 8.96556103089e20, which is...

Barely above baseline low end High 6-C. Welp, better than absolute baseline.
 
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Sigilavox said:
What's your build? Asking as a GS Main.

Though it's not optimal in the slightest, I like using Shagaru GS for the extreme build comfort, coupled with Latent Power (yes, I know WEX is better) to hit 100% esp. when I play aggressively, with a side helping of 80 eff. hits of purple, Quick Sheathe, Evade Window, Free Meal, Stun Res, and Good Luck.
Click to expand...
I like myself some damage so I've been running 7 ranks of Attack Boost and Crit Eye along with WEX for nigh 100% for those juicy hits. My attack stat is often around 500 when Offensive Guard isn't active which then its around 600.


Sigilavox said:
New information you might appreciate: According to the original thread that resulted in the wiki's standard horizon distance of 20km and therefore led to the downgrade of Kushala's feat, the given horizon distances are a low end of 20km on hazy days and a high end of 50km in very clear conditions, and, well... I think we can all agree that the blue sky in the distance is clear as hell, aside from clouds below. So we might be able to recalc Kushala (and therefore all base Elders) using a radius of 50 km, rather than 20 km.

(50000/4.257)^2*1/12*(9900*pi*50000^2*1.003) = 8.96556103089e20, which is...

Barely above baseline low end High 6-C. Welp, better than absolute baseline.
Click to expand...
Be sure to make a recalc blog about it and get it approved. That way we can make a CRT about it. I'm also in the progress of trying to get Diablos' Stories 2 Kinship calc'd.
 
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