Miyuki Sone vs Monika (The fight for (You)r love.)

[Kyle_Ramos]

Dude, why do you make me repeat this again?

Monika is not invilnerable to hacking or in this case, reality warping.

"Deletion' only means being deleted by pushing del on her character file to progress the story.

Not to mention, i already disproved Monika actually deleting Sayori, which is her equal in pretty much every aspect.

While Miyuki can not only delete things on a far bigger scale, she can delete her equal in every aspect aside from intelligence.

I like the fact that someone else likes visual novels and such, but you are really being annoying by repeating arguments i already either adressed or debunked again and again.

Please dude, do it for me and come up with something i havent adressed yet.

Miyuki wins by sheer skill and experience in hacking and monika has no durability feats aside from her character file being deleted, no one of her same tier has tried to actually hack her out, until now.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Not to mention she lost to whiteface by literally the same exact reasons as those i am saying now.

Monika is not good at coding and is not imune to actual existance erasure by other methods aside from pushing delete on a character file.

Please, dude. Just stop.

Or at least come up with something new. Monika can still win if people votr for her.

But this is literally painful for me to comtinue.


And check the whiteface fight for clarification on how she can get haxed to non existence.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dude, why do you make me repeat this again?
Monika is not invilnerable to hacking or in this case, reality warping.

"Deletion' only means being deleted by pushing del on her character file to progress the story.

Not to mention, i already disproved Monika actually deleting Sayori, which is her equal in pretty much every aspect.

While Miyuki can not only delete things on a far bigger scale, she can delete her equal in every aspect aside from intelligence.

I like the fact that someone else likes visual novels and such, but you are really being annoying by repeating arguments i already either adressed or debunked again and again.

Please dude, do it for me and come up with something i havent adressed yet.

Miyuki wins by sheer skill and experience in hacking and monika has no durability feats aside from her character file being deleted, no one of her same tier has tried to actually hack her out, until now.

i explained why her file was there, but she managed to incapacitate her


monika deleted the game, the fact that you disagree whit it doesent change that it wasdecidedasso in this wiki


whiteface is far above miyu, WHY? , because hehas exictence erasure resictence and immortality.

mayo loses by litiraly having nothing monika hasent survived and not having th e exictence erasure + immortality white face had

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Conclusion

-Hacking Skill- Monika: Manipulating chr files on an obvious character folder, script manipulation and Save/Load Manipulation one by one, she herself admits she is not good with Doki Doki's coding.

Miyuki: Modified the entire universe and all of its timelines on her phone showing inmense if not superhuman skill with hacking, also chsnging the HUD, Save/Load functions, Time manipulation, script and has shown expertize on the code of Kimi to Kanojo, alongisde the nature of visual novels.

Miyuki wins

-Physical Combat- OP states they are in the same room and Miyuki is equipped with her metal bat.

Miyuki has experience with beating people to death, like the MC, his cat and Aoi, has praticed Baseball and is a member of the track team.

Speed equalized in OP, so speed is meaningless.

Monika has no weapons nor any remarkable physical combat skills to counter Miyuki's overwhelming superiority in this aspect. Proof:https://youtu.be/oXcwYgoGR0E (at 5:37) Winner: Miyuki

-4th Wall Awareness- Miyuki has knowledge of the internet, other NitroPlus Games, the nature of Visual Novels and other timelines where the MC does not chose her, know the concept of censorship saying Aoi's mutilated body would have to be censored to keep the game from being categorized as Gore, was self aware well before the twist happened, and can aknoledge the passing of time in the real world. Proof:https://youtu.be/Zq3C942zSTM (passing of time) https://youtu.be/oXcwYgoGR0E (Miyuki about censorship of Aoi's body 7:50)


Monika doesnt know what Super Smash Bros is, no knowledge of the real world, which is why she asks you several questionsabout it, Twitter Monika has been ruled out, only sentient with Club President status. (Proven by the fact Sayori gainst sentience by gaining the club president title in the Deleting Monika, Bad Ending and True Ending of Doki Doki) Proof: https://youtu.be/4MJNwp3AEJk (7:31) https://youtu.be/9Plqx5LKfsQ (Deleting Monika early Ending) Winner: Miyuki

-Resistance to Player Intervention- Monika can be hurt by the player by simply deleting her character file and make her lose power over the game itself in both the bad end true endings. https://youtu.be/EqnVcucve3k (4:09)

Miyuki cannot be stopped by the player alone, you need to call NitroPlus in japan with your purchse number to have the choice between having Miyuki kill Aoi from existence or viseversa.

Winner: Miyuki

-AP and Confirmed Feats- As mentioned above, Miyuki can kill and erase Aoi (Her exact equal with the powers of "God") and viseversa from the past and even MC-kun's memories. Proof:https://youtu.be/ZD5OWrdYxrQ (Miyuki True End)

https://youtu.be/8Vh09QUZdiY (Aoi True End)

While Monika cannnot fully destroy Sayori with the club president powers, making her her equal in all powers, AP and Durability even on her Bad ending "erased" state, only able to damaage the script in the progress while Sayori's file stays intanct thru the entire "battle". Proof:https://youtu.be/rcVJyI3lP5M (17:25 onwards)

Winner : Miyuki

Q&A -But Miyuki's powers come from God!- The universal scale coding was already made before God applied the changes to the game, afterwards she still keeps all of the powers shown above.

Think it like Kyubey giving Madoka her Goddess form, explained above in higher detail

-But Monika is inmune to all erasure!-

She has only shown durability to people deleting her character file, not to other ways of reality warping/Hacking, like Miyuki does, who has knowledge of how visual novel games are coded and has a 100% understanding on how her own game is coded, while the same is not true for Monika, making her have a major disadvantage in terms of a neutral hacking battle.

-But Monika has a twitter! She is above the game and absolutely nothing can hurt her!-

Not only she shows different expresions and worries as her game version, Twitter Monika has absolute free will to tweet wathdver at any time, while the game monika has no knowledge of basic social structures or elements outside of her own game like Miyuki does.

Not to mention her twitter was made by somebody else, as she herself states.


-Scenario 1, Doki Doki Monika vs Doki Doki Miyuki -

stalemate since Monika cant fully delete someone of her own powers as shown in the bad ending and reasons above.

-Scenario 2: Kimi to Kanojo Monika vs KtK Miyuki-

Miyuki wins by putting Monika in a game's code she doesnt know and hell, remember how Monika is a novice at game hacking? Miyuki deletes Monika just like she could do with Aoi.

-Scenario 3: Neutral Space Miyuki is coded into Kimi to Kanojo and Monika is coded into Doki Doki, then Miyuki wins by expertize and her code is far more secure than Monika's. (Thousands of lines of code vs chr file. (Plotwise, of course) ), and reasons above. Monika not being good at coding and not knowing about the real world will seriously affect her against someone who is adept at it, but even worse, Miyuki has been sentient from the beggining and know about the nature of visual novels and even talks about other nitroplus games, which alongside her FAR superior physical prowess makes this match a sure win for Miyuki.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Dont forget all erasure/kill has already been debunked by the Whiteface fight and its a no limits fallacy

To anyone who wishes to vote, please read the entire thread before doing so.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dont forget all erasure/kill has already been debunked by the Whiteface fight and its a no limits fallacy
To anyone who wishes to vote, please read the entire thread before doing so.

1 yes , miyus hacking is better

2 phisical combat? both are incorporeal, irrilevant

3 4th wall awerness? the amount of knowledge of real life doesent affect the winner

you saying that gamer deleting affects here even though she starts TALKING and WILLINGLY LETS YOU win. thats stupid. sayori wasent able to do anything in the bad ending as she is resetted and good ending isnt affected by monika because she willingly made it happen

4 the player is inferior to monika, so sayin miyu is stronger than player, and by extension monika, is wrong. monika gives up willingly and is capable of surviving the gamer erasing them

5 dokidokis coding is different than miyus gamne a nd she erases information and exictence, there is no different exictence erasure. the metod changes, but like characters whit soul manipulation resictence can resist soul manipulation from other media despite them doing it differently

6 twitter was already agreed, no reason on repeating


scenario 1: she explains that she is unvilling to delete her friends, as she explains, so she not deleting her friends when she says she desent want to but doing so when she whishes to obviusly means that she can do it herself . miyu loses here


scenario 2, exictence erasure is still there , as shown when she talks whit mc when you delete her. miyuwins by trapping monika


scenario 3: the reasons above were already discussed. phisical streinght doesent matter. not knowing bout real world changees what again? the point of youre discussion is that exictence erasure doesent work here. which i discussed above. if we give immunity to exictence erasureon 2c level monika simply cant be killed by mayu and will eventualy beat her


monika has the ability to survive erasure AND erase. if you dont agree than go and make a discussion about it. sayiong she doesent have it while her page disagrees is simply usless.

so kindly. stop trying to say erasure and resistance are not around here and not ina revision

 

[Agnaa]

I did have problems with the Monika side, Risci-viragosi's responses have been not what I would have written, and seem to miss some details about DDLC. Still, I think that Monika would still win this battle.

1. It is not at all safe to say that the script took the most damage. During the credits scene, it specifically states everything that Monika deletes, and even continues to exist after deleting. First deleting all the CGs, then deleting every other screen in the game, then the interface, then the menu, then the script. This implies that Monika can indeed mess with any aspect of the game, but plot induced stupidity has her not do that too often.

2. Player action against the character doesn't matter in this battle. The player isn't involved at all.

4. Her not being present doesn't mean that she didn't exist. That "delete Monika early" ending is only a few minutes long, having you see Sayori go crazy then hang herself. In the "delete Monika later" ending, she doesn't appear for quite a while.

5. I wasn't there for those threads, but I'm not sure that Monika having access to twitter would have many implications on battles. As, canonically, she doesn't exist in our reality, but can still witness it. I think the most the twitter account could matter for a battle is with prep time she could use it to research her opponent maybe? Maybe it could also change whether we treat statements on her twitter as canon?

6. Sure, Monika's statements are, from our perspective, limited by the script, but canonically she breaks free from the script, even during that ending.

7. "Why would Monika complain about infinite choices if she could do whatever she wants online?" Because her actions are mostly confined to the game where all the other characters in it are on a set routine.

8. I'm not exactly sure how that backup works, would it protect her from Monika's mind manipulation? From the way it's described I'd think not, since it requires someone to put the backup back, and anyone else doing that would be outside help.

9. There's a difference between being able to change the script and being bound by what's in the script, and being able to change the script without being bound by what's in the script. But since they can both change it, I'll say that it probably won't affect the battle.

(Sorry if you've said anything else in other replies, I can't bare to go through all of them).

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I am OUT of this discussion.

But debunking your first point is easy.


I'll be back when a result is reached with votes.

Not to mention i have to calc some things from a japanese play thru that might result in an upgrade for Miyu. She can spawn weapons, possibly omnipresent after she rewrites the world, resistance to her own erasure with the power of love, reseting time and tons more.

Aparently whoever made her profile only took the translated parts of the game to make her profile.

 

[Agnaa]

That picture doesn't debunk my first point at all?

I linked you to the point in the game where she deletes the script among other things. How does it later saying that the script is missing mean that she can ONLY influence the script?

 

[Agnaa]

Since I'm not sure which post you want me to look at, I'll respond to your conclusion one.

Hacking Skill - Skill doesn't really matter, what matters more is potency. You can be as skilled a martial artist as you want, but if a tier 10B goes up against a tier 3A then, ignoring hax they're going to lose.

They both modified the entire universe. Did Miyuki alter the multiverse? If so then she's in the wrong tier and this match is a stomp. Monika also has time manipulation.

So in those regards they're equal, however, Monika has also shown mind manipulation, giving her the win in the offensive category.

Physical combat - Utterly meaningless, their tiers don't come from their physical prowess. Since Monika has non-corporeality, any physical damage Miyuki could do is irrelevant.

4th wall awareness - Meaningless, but I'll address anything you got wrong anyway. It's reasonable that she doesn't know what super smash bros is, not every person on Earth does, especially not every random athletic highschoolgirl. Monika also has other feats of 4th wall awareness, saying that "that joke wouldn't even work in translation", meaning she's aware of the translation process, as well as "humans aren't 2-dimensional creatures".

Resistance to player intervention - Meaningless, this battle isn't against their respective players, it's against each other.

AP and confirmed feats - From the way you describe Miyuki's AP feat, it sounds identical to Monika's; erasing another character of around their level from existence and from everyone's memories.

I'm not sure if it's true that Sayori's file stays around during the bad ending, that video doesn't show that and I'd have to go back to check, but I think it doesn't matter. Sayori experiences the same glitchy animation thing that happens when a character is erased while they're on screen, and then never appears again for the rest of the game. Even if her file stays, that shows that Monika doesn't need to type out a command to delete someone to erase them, but that she can just will it.

You saying that Monika is "only able to damage the script" is blatantly false, in the video you linked it shows her deleting most aspects of the game.

Of course Monika isn't immune to all erasure, but she has demonstrated being able to continue existing after baseline 2-C erasure. The onus is on you to demonstrate that Miyuki can erase someone who can continue existing after being erased by a baseline 2-C. We have no reason to believe that deleting someone's file is a weaker form of existence erasure.

I don't know what these "Doki Doki" and "KtK" in your scenarios mean. Every fight is implied, unless stated otherwise, to take place in NYC. Frisk isn't denied the ability to load in their battles just because it's a mechanic in the game Undertale and not the real world. Characters are taken as if their powers operate as they do in their Universe. But I'll still go through your scenarios.

Scenario 1: It isn't shown in the bad ending that Monika doesn't erase Sayori.

Scenario 2: Coding skill doesn't matter, Monika can erase people from will, as shown in the bad ending when no prompt comes up when erasing Sayori.

Scenario 3: Why does code being "more secure" matter? Also, Monika's existence erasure is shown as working in the same timeframe on all characters, even though their files have varying sizes. Everything else you mentioned in that scenario is irrelevant.

Miyuki hasn't demonstrated enough AP to win, and also is vulnerable to memory manipulation. I still give my vote to just Monika.

 

[Toxyca]

Okay, so there's so much back and forth here that I read for a solid half hour before giving up. Purely going off Miyuki's character page and what's been said here, since I haven't played her game, I'd give this to Miyuki. Monika can survive conventional deletion, and several of her dialogues in Act 3 when she talks directly to the player establish that she has a very complex and deep grasp of the real world. She may not be able to understand why she herself is sentient, but she understands exactly what it means to be a visual novel character and has extensive knowledge on subjects that she couldn't have gotten from inside her visual novel. Provided she is aware of Miyuki's nature as someone like herself - a self-aware character from another visual novel on the player's computer, who can also manipulate the computer - then she is fully capable of deleting her. The problem is skill.

This entire battle is down to who figures out what data on the computer corresponds to the other first. Monika can survive conventional deletion. But from various ingame descriptions (The random-character glitches that occur when the game calls on deleted characters, and Monika's own descriptions in the Act 3 dialogues) this seems to be because of how "deleting" files actually works on modern hard drives - their location is marked as free space, to be overwritten by other files. The result is any deleted file quickly being scrambled and partially overwritten by new random bits of data. This is the source of Monika's apparent immortality. In fact, Monika herself seems to be aware of this - she makes sure to overwrite large amounts of data over Sayori when she kills her in Act 1. You'll notice that both times the game attempts to call Sayori's picture in Act 2 (on the menu screen, and outside the player's house), data isn't actually gone. It's been overwritte using data from other characters.

Now, under that logic, an opponent can exploit the same kind of attack to kill Monika. They would just need to have enough knowhow to delete Monika, then immediately overwrite all the storage space she existed in. Judging by what others have said here, Miyuki should qualify. She is far, far more familiar with the system architecture of the computer around her. I would wager that she could both locate, and overwrite Monika before Monika could find and delete Kimi to Kanojo to Kanojo no Koi.


Anticlimactic change of thought: Miyuki has the skill necessary to pull the above off before Monika can locate and delete her game. But in the situation laid out in the OP, she wouldn't go for it right off the bat... Pun not intended. But yeah, if Miyuki is going for Monika's physical body in the game, then she's already going about this wrong. She would only do so if she doesn't understand what Monika is capable of. This seems pretty fitting to her source material too - she's not afraid to solve her problems in the game world the old-fashioned way rather than lunging straight for the code. Monika doesn't have this problem. The moment a character that isn't a Literature Club member appears before her, she would immediately understand that it's a foreign artifact from beyond the ingame world, and she would show no restraint. As Miyuki distracts herself with beating a random PNG file to a red paste, Monika would have more than enough time to delete Kimi to Kanojo to Kanojo no Koi.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Did you read the whole thread? Because you are assuming Miyuki would just blindly go for her physical body when the OP says she is complaining about Monika talkin about "her boyrfiend" aka you.


She already know you are a real person, and if someone else is sedunncing that person, that person should also have 4th wall awareness. Not to mention Miyuki hacks Aoi out of the game, she did not just confirm herself with killing her once.


And, you are also assuming Monika would jut figure out the code of Kimi to Kanojo in the fraction of the time Miyuki would realize Monika still exists, when Monika herself admitted she is not good with coding.

 

[Agnaa]

Why is ANYONE in this thread talking about hacking skill or code? I haven't seen this in another other thread involving Monika, because a lot of the fights on this wiki can be against people who aren't a part of games.

Monika's erasure powers don't require her to go into the game console and delete a character, she can erase someone purely by will, as shown in the bad ending where Sayori gets erased without the console popping up. Also demonstrated earlier in the playthrough, with traceback.txt shows Monika saying that she'll just erase Sayori since she's causing all these problems, and nowhere during the playthrough do you see her pull up the console to delete Sayori.

Correct me if I wrong, but as I understood each person in a battle is assumed to be in a universe where their powers work as they did in their original universe. i.e. if a character uses a soul for their powers, those powers still work even if in the other character's verse there are no souls. I don't know why you've twisted this battle into being one on someone's hard drive where they need to find the other game on the hard drive. Especially when no other fight involving Monika needs Monika to find where a character is in a movie's data and delete them from there.

 

[Toxyca]

Monika doesn't need to work out the code. She can just delete the entirety of Kimi to Kanojo at once. The OP also doesn't say Miyuki thinks Monika is flirting with the player directly. I interpreted it as just her recognizing Monika as another potential route for the player. She's said to appear to Monika ingame and comes with her trusty skull-splitting baseball bat in hand, rather than just deleting Monika without warning the moment she became aware of her presence. The implication is clear that Miyuki doesn't know what Monika is capable of, which is why she's just going with the standard plan of kill-her-ingame-for-psycho-reasons,-delete-her,-then-reset-everything.

Following SBA, neither knows eachother's true abilities beforehand anyways. Since the OP doesn't say otherwise, we should be following SBA. This wouldn't matter to Monika, who would react exactly the same to Miyuki's presence either way - digital sledgehammer. But it would matter to Miyuki, who seems to actively enjoy the physical side of her revenge. If she doesn't know that Monika can null her entire existence given the chance, which she doesn't, then she would pull the same routine she pulled with Aoi. Miyuki's only chance at winning is immediately playing serious and outspeeding Monika, which is out of character in this context. She would also need to realize that Monika needs to be overwritten rather than just deleted, otherwise she'd lose anyway. Just deleting her and resetting, like she did with Aoi, wouldn't cut it. She would get deleted without warning right afterward. The odds of her figuring this all out without prior knowledge of Monika's abilities are slim to none. Even another person with all of Monika's own powers and a full knowledge of all preceding events, didn't figure it out. If Miyuki knew what Monika could (and would) do, she would never have appeared in person.

 

[Toxyca]

And @Agnaa, the reason we're bringing it up is because both of these characters' "reality warping" is accomplished through the same mechanism - coding. In VS battles against non-digital characters, of course it wouldn't come up. We'd follow verse equalization and be using technically-altered versions of their canon powers. No reason to do that here, what with their verses already being perfectly equalized. This is how both of their powers work in their own verses, so why should we change them when they're compatible as is?

EDIT: And Monika's lack of coding skill is reflected in other VS battles. It's explained right on her page that her reality-warping is limitted by her canon ability.

 

[Agnaa]

@Toxyca

I'm not too sure about your justification for Monika needing to be overwritten and not deleted. Sayori and Monika both react the same way when deleted. It seems like deletion just has those sorts of effects in universe, and that Monika can specially exist after her existence has been erased. If having other characters' data there was from it being overwritten, then I'd expect that not to happen when you delete Monika.

I think it's hard to say how much of Monika's reality warping is done by her coding and how much is done through her will. Oftentimes no console comes up for her to type commands into, and she pulls out new things really quickly without the use of a console, like suddenly changing Natsuki's lines. So I'm still 50/50 on this part.

However, I do agree that Monika could just delete the entirety of Miyuki's game with ease, she's deleted various game files before.

Also, I'm not sure if the verses are perfectly equalized.

I thought her reality-warping being limited by her canon ability just meant that they would only allow things that have established feats for her be used. KTK is structured differently as a game to DDLC, on a more abstract level by very likely being made with different game engines, or on a more practical level by KTK not having character files. Some level of equalization is needed, because Monika's commands wouldn't work in Miyuki's game, and likewise.

And even more than that, SBA says that default location would be in our world by saying it's in NYC. Granted, the op was pretty vague about this by saying that it's in "Monika's room", which isn't really a location in DDLC or the real world.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Most of that has already been adressed. Sorry, but i will back out of the discussion again.

 

[Agnaa]

Kyle, could you possibly requote it? Some of the earlier discussions are way too long for me to go through.

 

[Toxyca]

Sayori and Monika both react the same way when deleted. [...] If having other characters' data there was from it being overwritten, then I'd expect that not to happen when you delete Monika.

As far as this goes, if I remember correctly, it doesn't happen when Monika is deleted. When Sayori is deleted at the end of Act 1, and you go back to the menu, Sayori's image is replaced with a scrambled combination of the other characters. And when you start a new game afterward and Sayori is supposed to appear, you instead see a glitched image that shows other characters instead. When Monika deletes herself and restores the script for Act 4, however, her own picture is entirely vanished from the main menu, and the script adapts to her absence without glitches. I will admit again though that the reasons for Monika's immortality over Sayori's apparently lack of it isn't something the game establishes. I was just trying to apply some Real-Life logic to their situations to level the playing field for Miyuki. Without it, I don't really see any way to put Monika down for good. She can survive deletion, while Miyuki can't.

@Toxyca
I think it's hard to say how much of Monika's reality warping is done by her coding and how much is done through her will. Oftentimes no console comes up for her to type commands into, and she pulls out new things really quickly without the use of a console, like suddenly changing Natsuki's lines. So I'm still 50/50 on this part.

Monika's reality warping is definitely done through code. We just don't see the console until she's given up pretending to be fictional. This is supported by how she refers to the changes she's made ingame, especially in Act 2&3 where she talks about how some of the glitches you saw throughout the game weren't intentional, she just wasn't sure how to code things properly. Aside from her own dialogue, this is supported by the program logs that appear in the game's directory as she changes things. Traceback.txt is a legitimate log for the engine DDLC uses, so ((actual)) error data will be logged in it too.

@Toxyca
Also, I'm not sure if the verses are perfectly equalized.

I thought her reality-warping being limited by her canon ability just meant that they would only allow things that have established feats for her be used. KTK is structured differently as a game to DDLC, on a more abstract level by very likely being made with different game engines, or on a more practical level by KTK not having character files. Some level of equalization is needed, because Monika's commands wouldn't work in Miyuki's game, and likewise.

Can confirm that both games are in different engines - in the rare occasions we get to see Monika's code directly, it's all valid code for the Ren'py engine DDLC is made in. If we assume the same holds for Miyuki (I don't think her game ever shows us Miyuki's code onscreen?), then the code she knows is for Nitro+'s in-house engine N2Sytem. I'd argue that's not grounds to equalize their detailed in-game feats, though, mainly because the characters would be able to recognize the differences in-universe. Both of their powers work within the same overall metaphysics (of being digital), so the incompatibilities could just be seen as a part of canon. Just like how Monika complains that she isn't able to affect your livestream chat. Monika could probably make detailed changes in KTK too if she just learned N2System code. Miyuki would be in the same boat.

@Toxyca And even more than that, SBA says that default location would be in our world by saying it's in NYC. Granted, the op was pretty vague about this by saying that it's in "Monika's room", which isn't really a location in DDLC or the real world.

Agreed on Monika's room not being a real thing in any of the relevant verses. I'm just rolling with it because it's pretty interchangeable with other DDLC locations, in-context.

 

[Agnaa]

@Toxyca When Sayori is deleted, both originally after you start the game up again, and in the bad ending when Monika returns, her image is corrupted immediately. The same thing happens when you delete Monika in act 3. When you delete Monika, her image starts scrambling, her name and text starts getting corrupted, then she disappears. When Sayori later gets deleted in the bad ending, her text gets corrupted shortly, but her name stays uncorrupted.

I will grant you that Sayori does still appear on the title screen in a garbled form while Monika doesn't, but as that's the only difference, while there are many other similarities, I'm inclined to believe that there's something else at play other than being overwritten/left there.

While Monika being resistant to existence erasure would prevent Miyuki from being able to keep her down, that's one of the reasons why I think Monika wins. Combined with Monika having mind manipulation, I think it's easy for her to win.

Traceback.txt strikes me as something that Monika put there on purpose to reach out to the player, as there are no other conversations she has with herself that get put in traceback.txt. I can see where you're coming from, but some of her changes make more sense as something that she can will into happening, while others make more sense as using code. However, the simpler assumption is probably that she is just coding for it, and figured out some way to edit character files to delete memories and change personalities.

About the code, I think assuming that they need to effect each other's engines likely gives Monika a huge advantage, as she can simply delete files, while I'm not entirely sure if Miyuki has been shown to simply do that herself.

I assumed things would be equalized so that both characters can do what they can inside their own games to others in their battle.

EDIT: Also, could I have some more information about Miyuki's time manipulation feats? Monika has shown being able to stop time flowing and reset events to where they haven't happened, while from the description on Miyuki's profile she's able to change the time of day, but events still flow in a linear order. If Miyuki's abilities don't stretch farther than this, this gives Monika another avenue for winning (stop time and erase Miyuki).

 

[RealityWarper]

I love Monika, but I honestly dont know how to vote. Miyuki seems to have the superior skills here, but needing her phone is a huge disadvantadge and she seems to have no way of pernanently putting her down and dealing herself with erasure.

I vote for Monika, but I admit my vote might be biased. The fight is too close.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Gee.

I guess Monika is still on the lead by 2 votes.

3-1

Did i mention that Monika does indeed have to follow a diretory each and every time she hacks stuff, while Miyuki pretty much coded her universe an overall update?


I think the scale and the fact that she did it off screen would be enough for her to win, but lemme see if i can find something else about her coding.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

And another thing i seriously wont get bored repeating.

Monika only survived having her character file removed from the character folder.

Thats what gave her Erasure resistance.

But people here continue to imply that woild give her resistence over any type of aresure, like plot based erasure or regular game file hacking, like Miyuki would. (And could, fra.)

Please do read my conclusion far above for literally every argument beimg dismissed.

Not to mention, again, that Monika being able to hack with her mind is useless based on what we have seen her do. Literally deleting 2e4kb files and playing .ogg files, which not only implies she does not know anything above the bare basics of coding (as she herself says), but he would go for the kill at first by searching for Miyuki's chr file, which she has none, while Miyuki has a FAR higher sense of the 4th wall to know that characters are not actually coded into 234kb chr files on a folder called characters and would actually code Monika herself away from the neutral space cellphone or not.

 

[ZeedMillenniummon89]

Miyuki for Kyle's reasons.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Oh my god, Zeed. I love you.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And another thing i seriously wont get bored repeating.
Monika only survived having her character file removed from the character folder.

Thats what gave her Erasure resistance.

But people here continue to imply that woild give her resistence over any type of aresure, like plot based erasure or regular game file hacking, like Miyuki would. (And could, fra.)

no one said all erasure. just miyus level of erasure as she hasent shown anything above 2c

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

The mere fact that Monika believes all people live based on a chr file will make her hacking useless, while Miyuki is far smarter to hack the game itself instead of being fooled by a literal game mechanic Monika literally relies on.

What is Monika gonna do when she realizes Miyu doesnt have a chr file? Learn the entirety of Kimi to Kanojo's code on desperation?

 

[DodoNova2]

.....it's long

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Most of the arguments are repeats, tho.

Just read my Conclusion" post above for my overall take on this and the recent ones where i debunk some of the latest arguments.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What is Monika gonna do when she realizes Miyu doesnt have a chr file? Learn the entirety of Kimi to Kanojo's code on desperation?

that was explained above, how would miyu know she wasnt erased for good, and she could just erase ALL of the game as she did in bad ending.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

You didnt answer my question.

And again, as stated above, Monika only damaged the script to the point the game had to be reinstalled. I eveb posted a screencap of what the game itself states its the problem.


And Monika only turned that way in the bad ending because her Chr file was deleted, Miyu would go for the actual game files instead of an obvious game mechanic, since she does have superior awareness and knowledge of visual novels and even other nitroplus games in general.

While, again, Monika doesnt even know how basic relationships go, someone else had to make her a twitter profile and doesnt know what smash bros is.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

If you cant provide proff Monika would ve able to learn the entire KtK code in desperation, she literally has no way to hurt Miyu.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If you cant provide proff Monika would ve able to learn the entire KtK code in desperation, she literally has no way to hurt Miyu.

she deleted all of the game canonicly , zthe fact that the game itself was still there doesent count, if it did than chara would be much weaker.

miyu cant kill her, so if neede she can learn all the game, especialy whit her not knowing that monika is still alive

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

and if you dont like the world erasure, make a content revision

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Again, she only damaged the script.

The game itself tells you this.

Undertale scaling has nothing to do with this. If you have a problem with chara, make a Content Revision Thread.

-

If Monika cant learn Ktk's code and hurt Miyu, then its a stalemate and that is ONLY IF Miyu doesnt figure out Doki Doki's first, which she easly could based on being able to hack Ktk with extreme ease and far superior hacking skills.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Its super simple.

Who wins?

Someone who literally has no experience hacking a game or someone that hacked a game from within to stupidly higher scale.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

as last, miyu has no resictence to exictence erasure and the argument youre making is mostly game mechanic, if xou go anywhere and say "this dude cant erase the other dude, hes more complicated" they will just shoot it down unless they are astral beings or higher dimensional beings.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Monika cant erase Miyuki if she cant erase her. And her erasure consists in erasing chr files, as explained above. Again.

You are ignoring the facts and just assuming Monika's erasure is final and could erase everything and everyone, which is not only wanking, its wrong and a no limits fallacy.

Miyuki does NOT have a chr file, Monika's only hope is hacking ktk. As explained above, i also explained every scenario between different versions of characters, so please dont bother replying with that.


And stop getting offensive here, that behaviour is not tolerated in Vs Battles wikia.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Its super simple.
Who wins?

Someone who literally has no experience hacking a game or someone that hacked a game from within to stupidly higher scale.

thats wery bad logic, if i told you: who wins? the guy who oblitirates a planet or the one who gets oneshotted by anyone? the one who gets oneshotted won (broly vs sans)


above it was explained that in the video you provided it shows that she destroys MUCH more than just script. miyu still has no resictence to erasure while monika does and CAN study the whole game if needed.


so let me ask YOU: who wins? the one who can take everything the other has and can erase or the one who cant survive erasing?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Again, as stated above.

Miyuki has an absurd skill gap over Monika.

Again.

Monika stated herself she does noy have a lot of experience hacking, unlike Miyu.

Again. Miyu does not have a chr file, forcing Monika to learn the ktk code.

Again.

Monika's erasure depends on deleting chr files, not actual game hacking.

Again. I already explined above the game itself tells you the game must be reset because of the script.

Again. Monika only survived her chr file getting deleted, not actual game hacking, like Miyu can.

And once again


Saying Monika can erase literslly everything and cannot be deleted by literslly anything is not only wank, its a no limits fallacy.

And the whiteface battle already agreed that Monika can be deleted by actual hacking.