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Miraculous Ladybug General Discussion 2

FireSwordHero said:
Disagree on that statement.

Aside from the Elderly version having no feats to speak of (though she does look dapper as ****), the young and adult version of Alix have pretty much no distinction from eachother in terms of stats, aside from maybe experience with their power and as a hero. I would perhpas be fine to perhaps include seperate keys for Alix and Future!Alix at base without their miraculous, but aside maybe from that it would be over saturation to include profiles, otherwise we would have too many redundant keys from Alix. Don't forget that we also have to include Akuma forms on their profile as well.
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That's understandable
 
Also I'm not sure if we can even separate the Alixes since they're all the exact same person. It would be like separating the 10th Doctor from the 1st Doctor.
 
Also also, we should make profiles for Shadybug and Claw Noir. They have all the base powers without limits and have actual killing intent. They're basically VS match friendly versions of the originals.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Also also, we should make profiles for Shadybug and Claw Noir. They have all the base powers without limits and have actual killing intent. They're basically VS match friendly versions of the originals.
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They are basically last season cat Noir and ladybug while bloodlusted, does it really matter?
 
Yeah because Shadybug makes actual weapons with her powers. That's actually pretty busted if you think about it.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Yeah because Shadybug makes actual weapons with her powers. That's actually pretty busted if you think about it.
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Ladybug always gets the exact object she needs to win, the objects themselves even give her hints of the opponent's weaknesses, if that ability was something that could actually be used in this wiki (NLF is a b*tch) it would be even more overpowered.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
Ladybug always gets the exact object she needs to win, the objects themselves even give her hints of the opponent's weaknesses,
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Sometimes it doesn't always work, like for example in Heroes Day when Ladybug's lucky charm was supposed to be used when she was fighting with all 5 of them, but when Hawk Moth akumatized everyone but her and Cat Noir it was unusable. Besides if someone snatches the lucky charm or destroys it like Claw Noir did it doesn't help either

What I'm saying is that it's not the end all be all
 
Oh yeah, do you guys have any feats that need to be calc'd? I remember Clout being 7-A, from punching a pirate ship out of sight. Is there anything else that could bump the cast out of High 7-C?
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
There's Monarch surviving being at the epicenter of Plagg's Cataclysm in Deflagration. The resistence doesn't protect him from AP, only the hax of the ability
Click to expand...
Speaking of the resistance, I think it should be removed for anyone that isn't Chat Noir or Plagg

Currently, everyone gets scaled to having deconstruction resistance courtesy of Chat Noir tanking his own Cataclsym. But aside from the fact that ONLY Chat Noir has been shown tanking Cataclysm, season 5 shows that the scaling is no longer possible: Gabriel was hit with a Cataclysm, and while the suit protected him from getting immediately dusted, it eventually would've proved fatal even for him with no way to withstand or mitigate its effects.
 
FireSwordHero said:
Currently, everyone gets scaled to having deconstruction resistance courtesy of Chat Noir tanking his own Cataclsym. But aside from the fact that ONLY Chat Noir has been shown tanking Cataclysm, season 5 shows that the scaling is no longer possible: Gabriel was hit with a Cataclysm, and while the suit protected him from getting immediately dusted, it eventually would've proved fatal even for him with no way to withstand or mitigate its effects.
Click to expand...
Cat Noir would've died too from Miraculer's Cataclysm much like Monarch if Ladybug couldn't heal him. The only difference is that Gabriel took her lucky charm away so the Cataclysm's damage was irreversable. So Monarch shouldn't have any different resistence compared to Monarch, The only one who was truly tanking it like a boss was Claw Noir, who was barely even affected by it
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Cat Noir would've died too from Miraculer's Cataclysm much like Monarch if Ladybug couldn't heal him. The only difference is that Gabriel took her lucky charm away so the Cataclysm's damage was irreversable. So Monarch shouldn't have any different resistence compared to Monarch, The only one who was truly tanking it like a boss was Claw Noir, who was barely even affected by it
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If anything, Claw Noir tanking his Cataclysm just proves my point that only Cat Miraculous wielders can resist the effects of Cataclysm

The difference between Adrien and Gabriel taking a Cataclysm is whether they can outright resist the deconstruction effects. Chat Noir was hurt in Miraculer, sure, but he didn't suffer any effects of the deconstruction or the like beyond just being in a lot of pain (pain that was healed by the Miraculous Ladybug), so we can say that he resists the effects. Gabriel on the other hand actually took permanent damage the moment he was touched (evidenced by the black mark that immediately appears on his skin), and unlike Chat Noir who could potentially walk off the effects, Gabriel was slowly being disintegrated. His miraculous may have prevented immediate disintegration, but it could not outright prevent it.
 
FireSwordHero said:
Gabriel on the other hand actually took permanent damage the moment he was touched (evidenced by the black mark that immediately appears on his skin), and unlike Chat Noir who could potentially walk off the effects, Gabriel was slowly being disintegrated. His miraculous may have prevented immediate disintegration, but it could not outright prevent it.
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Ladybug would've healed Gabriel's damage too, so until he escaped with her lucky charm it wasn't irreversible

We don't know how serious was Adrien's injury in Miraculer. Especially since he was hit in the chest area so we wouldn't actually be able to see the black mark on it, and Cat Noir was seriously injured after that
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Ladybug would've healed Gabriel's damage too, so until he escaped with her lucky charm it wasn't irreversible
Click to expand...
A valid point, but not relevant to the situation as I am focusing only on Cataclysm. Gabriel was dead the moment that the Cataclysm touched his skin. Sure his miraculous slowed down the rate of the corrosion, but he wasn't able to resist it outright.

Also you are misunderstanding the point when I said permanent. When Chat Noir took his Cataclym, the effects were grevious, but given he or his suit wasn't damaged it's safe to say that his damage wasn't permanent, he was just badly hurt. Gabriel on the other hand was immediately affected, so without the Miraculous Ladybug to cure him his fate was basically sealed.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
We don't know how serious was Adrien's injury in Miraculer. Especially since he was hit in the chest area so we wouldn't actually be able to see the black mark on it, and Cat Noir was seriously injured after that
Click to expand...
True, he was injured by the effects of his own Cataclsym, but you had earlier mentioned Claw Noir, who was able to (in your words) "truly tank it like a boss". While the scenarios were different enough that the effect is inconcistent, both Chat Noir and Claw Noir were shown to take a Cataclsym and walk off without being immediately turned to dust. The only real difference is that Chat Noir was partly injured but suffered no suit damage while Claw's suit was damaged but he was otherwise fine.

The only thing that could mess up the arguement is that we can't verify if there is a black mark when Chat got hit, but given that Adrien didn't notice any marks on himself as he retransformed and was able to tank two Cataclysms without being incapped, I'd say that's proof enough to suggest that he resists his own power.

In contrast, take Gabriel. When he got hit with a Cataclysm, he was both visibly hurt AND started immediately being affected by the corrosion effect. Definetely not someone who resists deconstruction, especially when you compared him to the two Cat Heroes above.

Keep in mind that both people shown to resist Cataclsym are the same people who use the Cat Miraculous, so while the list of people Cataclsymed is fortunately low, the record itself is enough to suggest that only Cat Miraculous users can resist a Cataclysm, as anyone else hit by it (Ladybug and Hawkmoth in Chat Blanc, Monarch in Season 5) usually get dusted.
 
FireSwordHero said:
A valid point, but not relevant to the situation as I am focusing only on Cataclysm. Gabriel was dead the moment that the Cataclysm touched his skin. Sure his miraculous slowed down the rate of the corrosion, but he wasn't able to resist it outright.

Also you are misunderstanding the point when I said permanent. When Chat Noir took his Cataclym, the effects were grevious, but given he or his suit wasn't damaged it's safe to say that his damage wasn't permanent, he was just badly hurt. Gabriel on the other hand was immediately affected, so without the Miraculous Ladybug to cure him his fate was basically sealed.

True, he was injured by the effects of his own Cataclsym, but you had earlier mentioned Claw Noir, who was able to (in your words) "truly tank it like a boss". While the scenarios were different enough that the effect is inconcistent, both Chat Noir and Claw Noir were shown to take a Cataclsym and walk off without being immediately turned to dust. The only real difference is that Chat Noir was partly injured but suffered no suit damage while Claw's suit was damaged but he was otherwise fine.

The only thing that could mess up the arguement is that we can't verify if there is a black mark when Chat got hit, but given that Adrien didn't notice any marks on himself as he retransformed and was able to tank two Cataclysms without being incapped, I'd say that's proof enough to suggest that he resists his own power.

In contrast, take Gabriel. When he got hit with a Cataclysm, he was both visibly hurt AND started immediately being affected by the corrosion effect. Definetely not someone who resists deconstruction, especially when you compared him to the two Cat Heroes above.

Keep in mind that both people shown to resist Cataclsym are the same people who use the Cat Miraculous, so while the list of people Cataclsymed is fortunately low, the record itself is enough to suggest that only Cat Miraculous users can resist a Cataclysm, as anyone else hit by it (Ladybug and Hawkmoth in Chat Blanc, Monarch in Season 5) usually get dusted.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with giving them limited resistence since Monarch wasn't immediately destroyed after getting Cataclysm-ed but rather got slowly destroyed by it over the course of months
 
That's just different levels of resistance, Cat Noir full resistance while Gabriel is a weaker resistance but it is still resistance.
There is no reason to say "limited" because that's not what that is for. You don't give limited fire resistance because he only resisted to fire with 100°C instead of the temperature of a star or whatever, it's all just full resistance with different levels.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
That's just different levels of resistance, Cat Noir full resistance while Gabriel is a weaker resistance but it is still resistance.
Click to expand...
Cat Noir didn't fully resist it. He was seriously injured by Miraculer using Cataclysm on him. Only Claw Noir was shown to not be affected by it
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Cat Noir didn't fully resist it. He was seriously injured by Miraculer using Cataclysm on him. Only Claw Noir was shown to not be affected by it
Click to expand...
It should be assumed that cat noir scale with Claw Noir, if not then at least as a "grown up" in the final season as he unlocked the full power without restrictions.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
There's Monarch surviving being at the epicenter of Plagg's Cataclysm in Deflagration. The resistence doesn't protect him from AP, only the hax of the ability
Click to expand...
This would actually yield way more than if it was any other character in the crater because Gabriel is somehow 220cm.

uawc1v6jrtg41.png
 
Sir_Ovens said:
This would actually yield way more than if it was any other character in the crater because Gabriel is somehow 220cm.

uawc1v6jrtg41.png
Click to expand...
And Monarch is even taller than he already is as Gabriel (there's a scene in Season 2 or 3 when Gabriel detransforms without the camera ******* and we see Hawk Moth/Monarch is taller than Gabriel)
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
You could calc Cat Noir destroying the cake Tikka made it should at least give Cataclism an higher rating.
Also I was wondering if Cat Noir can destroy the cake then Ladybug should be capable of creating one.
Click to expand...
Tikki said she is capable making another Gallete that size immediately but marinette told her to stop.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
You could calc Cat Noir destroying the cake Tikka made it should at least give Cataclism an higher rating.
Also I was wondering if Cat Noir can destroy the cake then Ladybug should be capable of creating one
Click to expand...
The feat

Earth: 73 pixels/12755982.41 m

Height: 416 pixels/72691625.7886 m

Diameter: 98 pixels/17124469.5367 m (iffy since its not facing forward but im using what i have)

Volume (using cylinder formula): 1.6742045508678E+22 m^3

Assuming rock

Frag: 8 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 1.3393636e+23 Joules/32.011558317399618545 Teratons of TNT - Country Level

V. Frag: 69 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 1.1552011e+24 Joules/276.09968929254301884 Teratons of TNT - Large Country Level

Pulverization: 214 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 3.5827977e+24 Joules/856.30920172084131536 Teratons of TNT - Continent Level
 
Last edited:
isaac18289129 said:
This


Earth: 73 pixels/12755982.41 m

Height: 416 pixels/72691625.7886 m

Diameter: 98 pixels/17124469.5367 m (iffy since its not facing forward but im using what i have)

Volume (using cylinder formula): 1.6742045508678E+22 m^3

Assuming rock

Frag: 8 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 1.3393636e+23 Joules/32.011558317399618545 Teratons of TNT - Country Level

V. Frag: 69 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 1.1552011e+24 Joules/276.09968929254301884 Teratons of TNT - Large Country Level

Pulverization: 214 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 3.5827977e+24 Joules/856.30920172084131536 Teratons of TNT - Continent Level
Click to expand...
Cannot be that low even more so using rock, that thing is many times the size of earth, and just destroying earth surface which is mostly just rocks is H6-A.
 
Would we scale tanking Cataclysm to the characters?
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Would we scale tanking Cataclysm to the characters?
Click to expand...
Maybe, if we are sure that they tanked it instead of just resisting the desconstruction or whatever hax it is. I could see Hawkmoth scaling because he took it directly, resisted the AP of cataclysm but he didn't fully resist the curse that cames with it.
 
isaac18289129 said:
The feat

Earth: 73 pixels/12755982.41 m

Height: 416 pixels/72691625.7886 m

Diameter: 98 pixels/17124469.5367 m (iffy since its not facing forward but im using what i have)

Volume (using cylinder formula): 1.6742045508678E+22 m^3

Assuming rock

Frag: 8 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 1.3393636e+23 Joules/32.011558317399618545 Teratons of TNT - Country Level

V. Frag: 69 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 1.1552011e+24 Joules/276.09968929254301884 Teratons of TNT - Large Country Level

Pulverization: 214 * 1.6742045508678E+22 = 3.5827977e+24 Joules/856.30920172084131536 Teratons of TNT - Continent Level
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that was calculated as High 5-A previously due to GBE needing to be used. Because its planetary sized it'll have a considerable gravitational pull
 
Ok I'm watching Evolution, and I think Fluff is just acausal type 4. Upon using Burrow, Adrien states that he used Burrow, didn't use Burrow, or has yet to use Burrow. Which means the Miraculous' perception of time is not linear.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Ok I'm watching Evolution, and I think Fluff is just acausal type 4. Upon using Burrow, Adrien states that he used Burrow, didn't use Burrow, or has yet to use Burrow. Which means the Miraculous' perception of time is not linear.
Click to expand...
Yeah. The same applies to any powers used when using the rabbit miraculous too, as Rabbit Noir wouldn't transform back after using Cataclysm
 
Oh yeah, I think Kwami should have multilocation. There are only ever one type of Kwami per universe so Fluff keeping multiple users powered up simultaneously means she's just there all at once.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Oh yeah, I think Kwami should have multilocation. There are only ever one type of Kwami per universe so Fluff keeping multiple users powered up simultaneously means she's just there all at once.
Click to expand...
The Kwamis should have it, but not because only one exists in the universe, but rather that they exist across the entire multiverse all at once. You can see two versions of the same kwami within one universe so the instances with fluff is that each of them are from a different time
 
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