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Bye-bye Multiversal Miraculous

TheOrangeGuy09 said:
What blog, again?

No, you are the one who needs to provide scans and not expect anybody else to watch 1h+ movie and many hours long series.

Appeal to incredulity. Provide actual proof or stop.

Because that’s how the wiki works. Create henryzx900ruly battles wiki and have Miraculous at 1-A, idc. Here, you need to follow the rules, comrade.

No. Although I’d probably like to, but not my top priority.
Click to expand...
refute 1:This thread. There isn't a disagree section

refute 2: You do realize I said if needed I would give the timestamp and episode to EACH of my claims

refute 3 and 4: where in vsbw does it say we automatically assert a realm that we don't know if it has time, it's automatically a timeless realm.

Refute 5: So your arguing apon things you've never seen for yourself and even when I give you the points in times when these things happen you ignore said fact.
 
Because you seem to not understand this here are the timestamps and the episodes.

(Claims relating to first appearance of the villain for the movie and the first wish made)15:28-16:29


(translation below)

"Nah, it's fan speculation [That only Bunnyx can know the secret identities]. Besides, there's thousands of timelines, not everything is going to be the same in each one of them. Bunnyx can't even tell her who is Hawk Moth, even less she'll tell Marinette "btw Alya knows" because everything needs to follow it's natural order."

,
Cat Blanc thread where i got the "windows are space-times"
(translation below)

"Bunnyx lives ["Vice" is a typo. Meant "vive"] a lot of alternate realities, not in all of them she’ll be the one to know it [Ladybug’s identity], and even if she knew about Alya, Bunnyx wouldn’t tell Marinette, she'll obviously lie because Bunnyx needs to interfere as little as possible."

all of what's shown here was made YEARS before miraculous Paris even came out. so you cant even say this supports something that didnt exist at the time of when these statements were made.
 
I don't get why we're arguing about the Burrow AGAIN, it was already established this structure made absolutely no sense and had conflicting representations. We have statements from the producers which completely contredict what is shown on screen, the Cat Blanc episode is literally overkill and there are so many counterarguments that can be made as to why Cat Blanc was only affecting one timeline. The London Special, is even more overkill, you literally agreed with me on the past thread, the windows don't represent STC's, they represent one single timeline collapsing, the disappearence of one slowly triggered the disappearence of every other—chain reaction. 15yo Bunnyx still living (while her future versions were erased) even though past, present and future of that timeline are erased through the Wish also makes no sense, which might even be a contradiction to the totality of windows representing one single timeline/STC.
 
Hixkaryana said:
I don't get why we're arguing about the Burrow AGAIN, it was already established this structure made absolutely no sense and had conflicting representations. We have statements from the producers which completely contredict what is shown on screen, the Cat Blanc episode is literally overkill and there are so many counterarguments that can be made as to why Cat Blanc was only affecting one timeline. The London Special, is even more overkill, you literally agreed with me on the past thread, the windows don't represent STC's, they represent one single timeline collapsing, the disappearence of one slowly triggered the disappearence of every other—chain reaction. 15yo Bunnyx still living (while her future versions were erased) even though past, present and future of that timeline are erased through the Wish also makes no sense, which might even be a contradiction to the totality of windows representing one single timeline/STC.
Click to expand...
where the burrow scales=cat blanc scales

but also
"the disappearence of one slowly triggered the disappearence of every other—chain reaction. 15yo Bunnyx still living (while her future versions were erased) even though past, present and future of that timeline are erased through the Wish also makes no sense, which might even be a contradiction to the totality of windows representing one single timeline/STC."

this affirms my position because that is most definitely a direct contradiction to why it cant be a single timeline because HOW IS BUNNYX ALIVE if the past future and present was erased.
also wydm gang im the one who said that they WERE separate space-times in the first place.
 
henryzx900ruly said:
where the burrow scales=cat blanc scales
Click to expand...
Cat Blanc's profile is fraudulous as it uses the Burrow, this is circular scaling.
henryzx900ruly said:
but also
"the disappearence of one slowly triggered the disappearence of every other—chain reaction. 15yo Bunnyx still living (while her future versions were erased) even though past, present and future of that timeline are erased through the Wish also makes no sense, which might even be a contradiction to the totality of windows representing one single timeline/STC."

this affirms my position because that is most definitely a direct contradiction to why it cant be a single timeline because HOW IS BUNNYX ALIVE if the past future and present was erased.
also wydm gang im the one who said that they WERE separate space-times in the first place.
Click to expand...
It can't be a single timeline, it can't be multiple timelines and it also can't be separate space-times, Teen Bunnyx's existence denies all of those.
 
henryzx900ruly said:
Logical Argument 1: If a valid source affirms that the windows are indeed windows and are connected to "every" available space-time, then we must conclude that if the burrow exists independently in every universe, or if it's referring to a singular burrow, the conclusion still stands that Cat Blanc can affect these universes.
Click to expand...
The burrow connects all the events of the SAME TIMELINE, it connects the past, present and future of the SAME SINGLE TIMELINE.


Minute 5:04 to 5:46
henryzx900ruly said:
Logical Argument 2: The reason for this can be directly supported by the most recent media, specifically the London Special. In the London Special, several things are revealed. First, we know that when a wish is made, it destroys and erases the timeline, as we saw at the end of season 5. In the London Special, we observe that when a wish is made, a window disappears, indicating that the timeline has been completely erased. One cannot argue that this happens within the same timeline because, when the villain first makes the wish, the windows are black, showing that that timeline—or "future"—no longer exists. Additionally, trying to go back in time through that window doesn't work either. Each window is a "snapshot" of a timeline, which can be rewound, fast-forwarded, or stopped. If a window turns black (or, in Cat Blanc's case, static), that means the timeline has been destroyed, and the connection is lost.
Click to expand...
Part of it is true and part of it is not, in the London special ALL the windows disappear, not just one which really proves that all windows are from just one timeline. Since a wish changes a single universe, and as we can see all the windows are black, waiting for the wish to be completed so it can load them again.



Minute 5:20 to 5:43

Also from minute 16:09 to 16:30 think about it: if most of the windows in the Burrow — which represent the past, present, and future — turned completely black after Lila attempted to make her wish, this means that the impact of the wish was affecting the entire timeline uniformly. This suggests that all the windows are connected to a single timeline. If there were multiple independent timelines, each window should have remained intact and separate, reflecting only its own reality. However, since the windows were affected collectively, this is clear evidence that there is only one single timeline in the universe. Therefore, this situation refutes your Idea that each window represents an individual space-time, as all of them were simultaneously altered by the same event. (Destruction of the universe)


henryzx900ruly said:
A wish from Gimmi destroys the past, present, and future. When a wish is made, it rewrites everything that exists, creating a new reality, which inherently changes all three temporal states. If everything were part of the same timeline, why wouldn't all the portals disappear? The answer is simple: because they are different time-spaces.
Click to expand...
No, and I already explained why above.
 
Last edited:
isaac18289129 said:
The burrow connects all the events of the SAME TIMELINE, it connects the past, present and future of the SAME SINGLE TIMELINE.


Minute 5:04 to 5:46

Part of it is true and part of it is not, in the London special ALL the windows disappear, not just one which really proves that all windows are from just one timeline. Since a wish changes a single universe, and as we can see all the windows are black, waiting for the wish to be completed so it can load then again.



Minute 5:20 to 5:43
Also minute 16:09 to 16:30

It shows all the windows completely black, what prevented the destruction from continuing was that bunnyx and Ladybug were going back in time all the time to prevent Lyla from making a wish Bunnyx also makes it clear that this wish would change the UNIVERSE (Key word) completely in a way that no one had seen before. Marinete also makes it clear that this would be the end of her universe.

No, and I already explained why above.
Click to expand...

the universe (keyword) would contain said timelines.
also, no when a wish was made for the first time not ALL of the windows went black or else the rest of the plot wouldnt happen.
 
isaac18289129 said:
The burrow connects all the events of the SAME TIMELINE, it connects the past, present and future of the SAME SINGLE TIMELINE.


Minute 5:04 to 5:46
Click to expand...

Also I forgot to mention that the way bunnyx says "do you want to know what you're going to get for your next birthday?" while Marinette was in another window supports the idea that each window takes the same timeline, Marinete could see her future through a completely different window than Bunnyx (who was showing the present) and we can also see the past (dinosaurs) in a different window.
 
isaac18289129 said:
Also I forgot to mention that the way bunnyx says "do you want to know what you're going to get for your next birthday?" while Marinette was in another window supports the idea that each window takes the same timeline, Marinete could see her future through a completely different window than Bunnyx (who was showing the present) and we can also see the past (dinosaurs) in a different window.
Click to expand...
this kinda gets contradicted by the movie a bit but everything about the burrow is contradictory.
 
isaac18289129 said:
Part of it is true and part of it is not, in the London special ALL the windows disappear, not just one which really proves that all windows are from just one timeline. Since a wish changes a single universe, and as we can see all the windows are black, waiting for the wish to be completed so it can load then again.

Click to expand...

Another thing that supports my idea is that from minute 2:48 to 2:59 Young Bunnyx says "one day i Will come to the Future and watch your moves and then i will be the Winner" (she says this looking at the windows) And then adult Bunnyx says "you dont mess with the TIMELINE just for fun mini-me, interfering in future events can cause serious consequences"
 
isaac18289129 said:
The series is contradictory overall, but let's see what others think.
Click to expand...
We got 2 staff approvals, so it’s really over.
isaac18289129 said:
The burrow connects all the events of the SAME TIMELINE, it connects the past, present and future of the SAME SINGLE TIMELINE.


Minute 5:04 to 5:46

Part of it is true and part of it is not, in the London special ALL the windows disappear, not just one which really proves that all windows are from just one timeline. Since a wish changes a single universe, and as we can see all the windows are black, waiting for the wish to be completed so it can load them again.



Minute 5:20 to 5:43

Also from minute 16:09 to 16:30 think about it: if most of the windows in the Burrow — which represent the past, present, and future — turned completely black after Lila attempted to make her wish, this means that the impact of the wish was affecting the entire timeline uniformly. This suggests that all the windows are connected to a single timeline. If there were multiple independent timelines, each window should have remained intact and separate, reflecting only its own reality. However, since the windows were affected collectively, this is clear evidence that there is only one single timeline in the universe. Therefore, this situation refutes your Idea that each window represents an individual space-time, as all of them were simultaneously altered by the same event. (Destruction of the universe)



No, and I already explained why above.
Click to expand...

Thanks for making my life easier!
 
henryzx900ruly said:
the goat has arrived. the yap in this blog is no more


This debunk is flawed. Let's use inductive reasoning to present an argument as to why it's incorrect.


Logical Argument 1: If a valid source affirms that the windows are indeed windows and are connected to "every" available space-time, then we must conclude that if the burrow exists independently in every universe, or if it's referring to a singular burrow, the conclusion still stands that Cat Blanc can affect these universes.


Logical Argument 2: The reason for this can be directly supported by the most recent media, specifically the London Special. In the London Special, several things are revealed. First, we know that when a wish is made, it destroys and erases the timeline, as we saw at the end of season 5. In the London Special, we observe that when a wish is made, a window disappears, indicating that the timeline has been completely erased. One cannot argue that this happens within the same timeline because, when the villain first makes the wish, the windows are black, showing that that timeline—or "future"—no longer exists. Additionally, trying to go back in time through that window doesn't work either. Each window is a "snapshot" of a timeline, which can be rewound, fast-forwarded, or stopped. If a window turns black (or, in Cat Blanc's case, static), that means the timeline has been destroyed, and the connection is lost.

A wish from Gimmi destroys the past, present, and future. When a wish is made, it rewrites everything that exists, creating a new reality, which inherently changes all three temporal states. If everything were part of the same timeline, why wouldn't all the portals disappear? The answer is simple: because they are different time-spaces. This argument has been affirmed by the official source regarding the burrow and by Ladybug herself. This also aligns with the "streams = timelines" analogy, which refers to the semantic implications of what a timeline is. In this sense, we can equate things X and Y because they share similar properties—specifically, their general appearance. We use terms like "flowing," "stream," and others that are commonly associated with both rivers and timelines.
To clarify, if you have a car with four doors and two people with keys, this analogy refers to the burrow as the car and the portals as the destinations the car can travel to, not whatever you may be suggesting.
Within the narrative, this interpretation makes much more sense than the one you're trying to argue. Another point to consider is that the alternative interpretation of the burrow would limit Cat Blanc to being just 2-A. If you believe that when Bunnyx says "all of time," she is referring to the entirety of the Miraculous Ladybug multiverse, then Cat Blanc's ability to affect that "connector" would scale him to that level. However, there is no evidence that there is more than one burrow, right? Well, sort of. The current interpretation is that all we know is that there exists a burrow within the main Miraculous universe. But if that's the case, why can't the burrow travel to other universes? The answer is simple: there exists a burrow in each universe, which would explain why they cannot do what I just mentioned. But that's an argument for another day.



Now, here's the current understanding of how time works within the verse.


The Burrow is the connector of all time within a universe.
The totality of time flows to it and exists within it.
The Burrow's time is "distinct" from all the other timelines that exist within a universe.
Within the verse, we directly see that altering time affects portals and vice versa.


If Event A exists within a window and then Person A changes Event A with an ability, causing it to become Event B, this does not mean that Event A never happened. Instead, it means that Event A now exists differently from Event B. For these two distinct, tangent events to coexist, a separate time-space is required for them to exist independently. Both tangent events cannot exist within the same temporality, as that would create a contradiction.


For example, if Ladybug dies (let's take the wish as an example and assume she doesn't get saved due to plot reasons, and we can also place a ghost in her place if necessary), then that window is gone. Everything before it still exists, but when Ladybug fails multiple times, the windows that allowed her to travel to those places turn black. This indicates one thing: timelines within the verse operate on a principle known as root-cause-contingency (RCC). RCC refers to the concept where timelines branch off from the main timeline, but when the main timeline is destroyed, the others are also destroyed. This is because their fundamental existence depends on the existence of the main timeline, even though they are distinct time-spaces. This process explains the events we see in the movie.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In conclusion i have provided arguments and reasoning behind why what your sayng is wrong and the correct interperation of the burrow.



gg ez no re
Click to expand...
The issue here is that if Bunnyx failed to stop Ilya, the entire timeline would be wiped, and she would not exist. If what you say about there being multiple timelines in a universe is true, then Bunnyx would be independent from them all, given your explanation. But she is clearly not. In fact, her future iterations still need the single timeline they're in to exist to even be alive. There is only one defacto timeline per universe.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
The issue here is that if Bunnyx failed to stop Ilya, the entire timeline would be wiped, and she would not exist. If what you say about there being multiple timelines in a universe is true, then Bunnyx would be independent from them all, given your explanation. But she is clearly not. In fact, her future iterations still need the single timeline they're in to exist to even be alive. There is only one defacto timeline per universe.
Click to expand...
To build off this, for 2-A or 2-B the timelines have to be independent of each other. If by destroying the "Trunk" of one branch you destroy all other branches then you don't have an independent timestream, you just have one that will branch off and then come back at a later point. The FAQ even mentions this scenario
First, note that in our terms a universe, and hence also space-time continuums and timelines, always includes all of the three dimensional space that can be reached from it. That is to say, any place that can theoretically be reached via regular three-dimensional movement alone (e.g. via spaceflight) would be considered as part of the same universe, and hence timeline, regardless of whether the fiction considers it as such. Traveling from one universe to another should only by possible via portals, higher-dimensional movement, teleportation or other unusual means of transportation.

By default, universes are assumed to have separate three-dimensional spaces, but should a piece of fiction demonstrate the opposite destruction of several timelines connected in such a way would only be Low 2-C (Universe level+).
Click to expand...
However, if the act of destruction is going: Universe -> Burrow -> All other universes then I can still see an argument for them being higher into Tier 2. But the OP is arguing that doesn't happen, so it would just be a Low 2-C showing.
 
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