Miraculous Speed Revision

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Why does Ladybug scale to Cat Blanc's FTL beam? She dodged tiny disc throws, not his giant uncontrolled energy beam, and Cat Blanc's attacks don't all have the same attack speed

Cat Blanc's FTL/MFTL+ attacks shouldn't scale to his combat and reaction speed, it should only be attack speed. Ladybug doesn't dodge Cat Blanc's MFTL+ Spirit Bomb or FTL energy beam

According to @DontTalkDT, throwing speed shouldn't scale to any other speed, so Majestia shouldn't scale to the FTL+ throwing speed of her rocket:

I wouldn't scale throwing speed to any other speed. Fundamentally it's a feat of accelerating another object, which is more so a strength thing, and we don't scale strength to speed even if there is a physical relationship.
(and since even real life humans can throw/shoot things faster than they can run, most authors probably don't consider a relationship anyway)

If these get downgraded, all FTL combat and reaction speed become Massively Hypersonic+, while Majestia becomes Sub-Relativistic+

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Same

 

[Shey]

Further input may change my decision but i agree

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah I agree for now.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The videos in the op are blocked for me.

Though, are Cat Blanc's other attacks stated different from the FTL/Massively FTL ones in terms of speed? We usually don't separate the speed of characters attacks unless there is a clear difference.

For Majestia, I agree. If no one reacts to/dodges the the rocket then it shouldn't scale to the characters other speed values.

 

[Coolboy6]

Neutral for now

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Though, are Cat Blanc's other attacks stated different from the FTL/Massively FTL ones in terms of speed? We usually don't separate the speed of characters attacks unless there is a clear difference.

The tiny dics throws from Cat Blanc that Ladybug dodges are way slower than the uncontrolled beam that split the the Moon or the Spirit Bomb that grew larger than an entire galaxy

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The tiny dics throws from Cat Blanc that Ladybug dodges are way slower than the uncontrolled beam that split the the Moon or the Spirit Bomb that grew larger than an entire galaxy

Well, I guess it's fine then.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm fine with it I guess. Majestia still scales to FTL by blitzing akumatized Techno-Pirate so it's not a massive downgrade

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Well, I guess it's fine then.

Thanks. I'll start applying the changes

 

[Coolboy6]

I’m fine with the changes now

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I'm fine with it I guess. Majestia still scales to FTL by blitzing akumatized Techno-Pirate so it's not a massive downgrade

Akumatized Techno-Pirate will get downgraded to Massively Hypersonic+ with this revision too

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Why does Ladybug scale to Cat Blanc's FTL beam? She dodged tiny disc throws, not his giant uncontrolled energy beam, and Cat Blanc's attacks don't all have the same attack speed

Ladybug also dodged an energy beam thriwn at her which was very similar to the large one

Cat Blanc's FTL/MFTL+ attacks shouldn't scale to his combat and reaction speed, it should only be attack speed. Ladybug doesn't dodge Cat Blanc's MFTL+ Spirit Bomb or FTL energy beam

Ladybug can dodge attacks from Cat Blanc, who scales to his attacks. Ladybug and Haek Moth both reacted to Cat Blanc firing his FTL blast before they were consumed and killed by it

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Ladybug also dodged an energy beam thriwn at her which was very similar to the large one

Where? I rewatched the entire episode and I don't see it.

Ladybug can dodge attacks from Cat Blanc, who scales to his attacks. Ladybug and Haek Moth both reacted to Cat Blanc firing his FTL blast before they were consumed and killed by it

The blast wasn't FTL at the time. It was FTL when it became an energy beam that shot into space

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Where? I rewatched the entire episode and I don't see it. Just the tiny energy disc throws that she dodged

It was here. His Mega Cataclysm is very similar to his attack that split the moon, as that was also a Mega Cataclysm, and there's no reason why it won't scale to his attack speed

The blast wasn't FTL at the time. It was FTL when it became an energy beam that shot into space

What??? The blast was definitely FTL and it pretty much immediately shot to the moon from Paris and destroyed it

There was never a moment when it accelerated when Cat Blanc fired it. It may seemed like it only because we saw it from above before it shot to the moon

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

It was here. His Mega Cataclysm is very similar to his attack that split the moon, as that was also a Mega Cataclysm, and there's no reason why it won't scale to his attack speed

It isn't similar. It was a tiny Spirit Bomb attack that was thrown by Cat Noir, not a giant-ass energy beam that got shot into space. And like LordGriffin1000 said, the speed of characters' attacks are separated when there is a clear difference. This tiny ball attack is clearly way slower than the Moon-splitting beam

What??? The blast was definitely FTL and it pretty much immediately shot to the moon from Paris and destroyed it

There was never a moment when it accelerated when Cat Blanc fired it. It may seemed like it only because we saw it from above before it shot to the moon

The blast was expanding outwards at a clearly much slower speed, then once it fully stopped expanding, a giant energy beam that reached the Moon under a second was shot out. The expansion of the blast is what Ladybug and Hawk Moth reacted to, not the giant energy beam

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

and Cat Blanc's attacks don't all have the same attack speed

This is never stated.

Chat Blanc just has two* different ratings because we assume his final Cataclysm to be a different thing than his normal cataclysm due the effects it has in Bunnyx‘ s Burrow; not because they have a particular variation between each other.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It isn't similar. It was a tiny Spirit Bomb attack that was thrown by Cat Noir, not a giant-ass energy beam that got shot into space.

Just because he fired two different attacks doesn't mean they have a completely different attack speed. Especially when it's stated nowhere

This tiny ball attack is clearly way slower than the Moon-splitting beam

Said who? By that logic every attack in all verses that aren't portrayed to be the speed that they are should be downgraded too.

By that logic let's also downgrade the AP of every single Tier 5 and above person since they don't destroy the Earth each time they attack

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Said who?

Said by an admin of this wiki

By that logic let's also downgrade the AP of every single Tier 5 and above person since they don't destroy the Earth each time they attack

That's Destructive Capacity vs Attack Potency, which is already addressed on the Attack Potency page

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Said who? By that logic every attack in all verses that aren't portrayed to be the speed that they are should be downgraded too.

By that logic let's also downgrade the AP of every single Tier 5 and above person since they don't destroy the Earth each time they attack

Visually the attack is clearly slower but that's visuals which is why I asked if there is a stated difference since visuals don't mean to much since attacks/characters can be appeared to be slow but that's for use to see.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Visually the attack is clearly slower but that's visuals which is why I asked if there is a stated difference since visuals don't mean to much since attacks/characters can be appeared to be slow but that's for use to see.

Just visuals.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Visually the attack is clearly slower but that's visuals which is why I asked if there is a stated difference since visuals don't mean to much since attacks/characters can be appeared to be slow but that's for use to see.

There is still a clearly massive difference between the attack that split the moon and the ones that he used against Ladybug. Cat Blanc's FTL calc comes from an uncontrolled giant energy beam. The ones that Ladybug dodges are much more controlled, smaller and thrown attacks

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Visually the attack is clearly slower but that's visuals which is why I asked if there is a stated difference since visuals don't mean to much since attacks/characters can be appeared to be slow but that's for use to see.

Yeah it's just visuals, since you can't always portrays speeds like that. And there's no in-universe reason as to why it'd be so much slower

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

There is still a clearly massive difference between the attacks. Cat Blanc's FTL beam is an uncontrolled giant energy beam attack. The ones that Ladybug dodges are much more controlled and smaller attacks

It doesn't matter if he controlled it or not, both of these scale to Cat Blanc's attack speed, and there's no in universe reason to why the second would be so much slower aside from visuals, but due to cinematic timimg you can't prove its speed from visuals alone

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Cat Blanc's FTL beam is an uncontrolled giant energy beam attack. The ones that Ladybug dodges are much more controlled and smaller attacks

Being uncontrolled doesn’t means that they are faster or slower. Chat Blanc was in total control of his final Cataclysm, yet that one was the fastest and strongest with a massive difference.

Being bigger or smaller it's just about AoE.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Being uncontrolled doesn’t means that they are faster or slower. Chat Blanc was in total control of his final Cataclysm, yet that one was the fastest and strongest with a massive difference.

Being bigger or smaller it's just about AoE.

Being in control means he can make them faster or slower. Cat Blanc's final cataclysm was his most powerful all out attack to destroy absolutely everything. His moon-splitting beam was because he was scared, panicking and didn't know what to do with Ladybug and Hawk Moth

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Being in control means he can make them faster or slower. Cat Blanc's final cataclysm was his most powerful all out attack to destroy absolutely everything. His moon-splitting beam was created from being scared and not knowing what to do with Ladybug and Hawk Moth

That doesn't mean anything. You still didn't explain why would Cat Blanc's other attacks be any slower or faster whether he's in control or not. Or why would he make it slower or faster.

Especially when there's no in-universe reasonings to this, so you have to come up with your own headcanon to explain why you think they're faster or slower aside from the final blast

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Being in control means he can make them faster or slower. Cat Blanc's final cataclysm was his most powerful all out attack to destroy absolutely everything. His moon-splitting beam was because he was scared, panicking and didn't know what to do with Ladybug and Hawk Moth

So is his Moon Cataclysm his fastest attack? Otherwise being uncontrolled would mean that it made it slower.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

That doesn't mean anything. You still didn't explain why would Cat Blanc's other attacks be any slower or faster whether he's in control or not. Or why would he make it slower or faster.

Especially when there's no in-universe reasonings to this, so you have to come up with your own headcanon to explain why you think they're faster or slower aside from the final blast

All of Cat Blanc attacks that Ladybug dodges are energy spheres/discs that he physically throws at her. The FTL calc is a massive energy beam that was shot out from a giant blast that covered the entire city of Paris.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

All of Cat Blanc attacks that Ladybug dodges are energy spheres/discs that he physically throws at her. The FTL calc is a massive energy beam that was shot out from a giant blast that covered the entire city of Paris.

So? That still doesn't mean they're at a completely different speed. And the size of the attack is AoE and nothing else

Again, there's no in-universe statement that this particular attack to the moon is faster than the rest of his attacks

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

So? That still doesn't mean they're at a completely different speed. And the size of the attack is AoE and nothing else

That doesn't mean they aren't a completely different speed either. Cat Blanc uses his Cataclysm attacks way differently against Ladybug than when the attack was an energy beam that split the Moon

Again, there's no in-universe statement that this particular attack to the moon is faster than the rest of his attacks

There is no in-universe statement that Infinity Ultron's explosion is faster than his other energy attacks, but nobody that reacts to his other energy attacks scales to the explosion speed

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

There is no in-universe statement that Infinity Ultron's explosion is faster than his other energy attacks, but those that do react to his other energy attacks scaling to it was rejected

Link the thread. Tried to search for it and failed. The closest thing to that I found was two threats that addressed the What If!Avengers not really reacting to that specific explosion, not a debate if every energy attack from Ultron has or doesn't has that attack speed with different attacks.

Aside from that, I'm sure this wiki follows the statement about the MCU Power Stone varying when it comes down to the size of the target, which is the source of Infinity Ultron's powers alongside the rest of the Infinity Stones; so it isn’t the same case.

And overall, nothing to do with this case in particular.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That doesn't mean they aren't a completely different speed either. Cat Blanc uses his Cataclysm attacks way differently against Ladybug than when the attack was an energy beam that split the Moon

It does without you having anything else to prove it. There's no reason he'd attack any slower or faster for no reason other because you say he does.
The only reason we even give Cat Blanc a different speed for his giant Cataclysm attack as it was literally about to destroy everything including time

There is no in-universe statement that Infinity Ultron's explosion is faster than his other energy attacks, but nobody that reacts to his other energy attacks scales to the explosion speed

Whataboutism isn't gonna help your case. Other verses don't matter in a Miraculous Ladybug discussion

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

It does without you having anything else to prove it. There's no reason he'd attack any slower or faster for no reason other because you say he does.
The only reason we even give Cat Blanc a different speed for his giant Cataclysm attack as it was literally about to destroy everything including time

It's throwing energy balls vs shooting out an energy beam. There is no reason the speed of a energy ball being thrown would be the same as the attack speed of an energy beam being shot out

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

It's throwing energy balls vs shooting out an energy beam. There is no reason the speed of a energy ball being thrown would be the same as the attack speed of an energy beam being shot out

His Kame Hame Ha-esque Cataclysm isn’t thrown. And he's not actually physically grabbing them, he's firing them. This point is a nitpick.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

And he's not actually physically grabbing them, he's firing them

He is physically throwing them

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He is physically throwing them

Cataclysms can't be physically thrown as they are not physical objects. Not that it helps your point even if they were

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Aside from that, I'm sure this wiki follows the statement about the MCU Power Stone varying when it comes down to the size of the target, which is the source of Infinity Ultron's powers alongside the rest of the Infinity Stones; so it isn’t the same case.

One Infinity Stone having that power mechanism doesn't change all five others not having that

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Cataclysms can't be physically thrown as they are not physical objects. Not that it helps your point even if they were

Cat Blanc is blatantly hurling them towards Ladybug after they are formed

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Cat Blanc is blatantly hurling them towards Ladybug after they are formed

He just fires them. He charges them in his hands and then releases. It's not really holding