Miraculous Speed Revision

[Marvel_Champion_07]

He just fires them. He charges them in his hands and then releases. It's not really holding

He charges them in his hands and hurls them at Ladybug. And it's nothing like how his energy beam is a singular straight attack shot from Paris all the way to the Moon

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He charges them in his hands and hurls them at Ladybug

Ok? That's no different then someone like Goku throwing a ki blast, but you seem to miss the point that Cataclysm is not a physical object

And again he doesn't hold it, he charges it in his hands until he throws it at Ladybug

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

And again he doesn't hold it, he charges it in his hands until he throws it at Ladybug

It's his arm that throws the Cataclysm and makes it move towards Ladybug. Those Cataclysms' speeds don't come from them like the energy beam. They come from Cat Blanc's arm throwing them

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

One Infinity Stone having that power mechanism doesn't change all five others not having that

Your argument was that it was the same case, it's not wherever you believe the rest of the stones follow or not the same criteria. Don’t care about Infinity Ultron speed altogether, but that this discussion has no place here.

Cat Blanc is blatantly hurling them towards Ladybug after they are formed

If you go frame by frame, you notice that, like any other of his blasts, the cataclysm is formed above his palm, not right on it. That's because no matter how big the actually grow, they don’t go into touching Chat Blanc's palm.

Chat Blanc doesn't even moves his fingers in the entire sequence; they are not being physically throw, they are being fired.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

If you go frame by frame, you notice that, like any other of his blasts, the cataclysm is formed above his palm, not right on it. That's because no matter how big the actually grow, they don’t go into touching Chat Blanc's palm.

Chat Blanc doesn't even moves his fingers in the entire sequence; they are not Being physically throw, they are bing fired.

I can see that. It's still his arm moving that gives makes these Cataclysm blasts travel towards Ladybug

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

I can see that. It's still his arm moving that gives this Cataclysm blasts travel speed towards Ladybug

Says who?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Because if they were blasts, he wouldn't have to swing his arm? He'd just point and shoot.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Says who?

The scene is literally showing Cat Blanc hurling the Cataclysm blast towards Ladybug like throwing a ball. The only difference is that it isn't touching his palm, but his arm is still swinging to throw the blast at Ladybug and make it travel towards her

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

They still aren't a physical object. No matter how you try to twist it, he isn't throwing them because he doesn't hold it, just charge and fire it

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

fire it

By moving his arm after the blast was formed to make the blast move to Ladybug. Just like throwing a ball, only that he isn't physically touching it

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Because if they were blasts, he wouldn't have to swing his arm?

Swinging doesn’t means it's not a blast.

The scene is literally showing Cat Blanc hurling the Cataclysm blast towards Ladybug like throwing a ball.

But he’s not throwing a throwing ball, not firing them like how you would fire a throwing ball.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

But he’s not throwing a throwing ball, not firing them like how you would fire a throwing ball.

He is physically moving his arm to make the blast actually travel to where he wants it to go

Swinging doesn’t means it's not a blast.

The bolt wasn't shot out when she was swinging. It was shot out when she finished pointing at Ladybug. Cat Blanc's Cataclysm already formed before he started swinging his arm to throw it at Ladybug

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

He is physically moving his arm to actually make the blast travel

Yes, along with it being fired.

The bolt wasn't shot out when she was swinging. It was shot out when she finished pointing at Ladybug. Cat Blanc's Cataclysm already formed before he started swinging his arm to throw it at Ladybug

The point it’s not that when the blast was fired, is if a swing is needed for a blast to be a blast. Neither Stormy Weather nor Chat Blanc's attack need actual hand gestures, they do so because because.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Neither Stormy Weather nor Chat Blanc's attack need actual hand gestures, they do so because because.

Stormy Weather isn't Cat Blanc. Those attacks that he throws at Ladybug need hand gestures because they are little balls being held above his hand that don't move on their own. The one that split the Moon doesn't because it's an energy beam.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Those attacks that he throws at Ladybug need hand gestures because they are little balls being held above his hand that don't move on their own

Then what's this? Cat Blanc doesn't move his hand to fire this attack

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Then what's this? Cat Blanc doesn't move his hand to fire this attack

He moves his finger. He's flicking the Cataclysm like how I flick something off my table

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He moves his finger. He's flicking the Cataclysm like how I flick something off my table

He doesn't move it. He just releases it which fires the attack. He doesn't flick it at all

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

He doesn't move it. He just releases it which fires the attack. He doesn't flick it at all

Watch it in slow mo. His finger blatantly moves and flicks to send the Cataclysm towards the area that Ladybug is standing on

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Watch it in slow mo. His finger blatantly flicks the Cataclysm to move it towards the ground

He just releases it. And honestly I still don't understand why this argument even matter when you still have nothing to prove why Cat Blanc's attacks are so much slower than his other attack when there's no in-universe statement for it

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Stormy Weather isn't Cat Blanc.

I know.

The point it's not that Stormy Weather and Chat Blanc are the same, it’s that swinging has nothing to do with nothing.

Those attacks that he throws at Ladybug need hand gestures because they are little balls being held above his hand that don't move on their own. The one that split the Moon doesn't because it's an energy beam.

Bold; This is a headcannon. If anything, the scene where he doubts into firing it at Ladybug or Hawk Moth when pointing at them suggest that he doesn't needs to do so.

His Moon Cataclysm beam starts like any other of his blast. And his Kame Hame Ha-esque Cataclysm also has an energy trail.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

He just releases it.

And honestly I still don't understand why this argument even matter when you still have nothing to prove why Cat Blanc's attacks are so much slower than his other attack when there's no in-universe statement for it

Throwing a tiny little ball won't have the same speed as shooting an energy beam

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

If anything, the scene where he doubts into firing it at Ladybug or Hawk Moth when pointing at them suggest that he doesn't needs to do so.

He doesn't need to for all the attacks. But those ones that he throws at Ladybug is blatant throwing speed

His Moon Cataclysm beam starts like any other of his blast

And it quickly descends into a massive blast that covers him and Paris before shooting out through space to the Moon. It's very different from all the ones that Ladybug dodges

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Throwing a tiny little ball won't have the same speed as shooting an energy beam

Said who? Especially when neither of these contain any mass

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Because Cat Blanc is throwing it. Not shooting it like a straightline beam

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Because Cat Blanc is throwing it. Not shooting it like a straightline beam

Again, said who? Who says they aren't as fast? Why would we assume different speeds when we have 0 proof of it being the case?

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

He doesn't need to for all the attacks. But those ones that he throws at Ladybug is blatant throwing speed

Bold; So which ones need to? Your thesis was that the energy spheres have to be thrown because they have no speed on their own (because?) and now it's just some of them?

Underline; Blatant throwing speed without actually throwing it? This is arbitrary.

And it quickly descends into a massive blast that covers him and the entire city before suddenly shooting out through space to the Moon. It's very different from all the ones that Ladybug dodges

Bold; As stated before, this is just AoE. And it has nothing to do with the speed of the blast itself but how it was released. I also stated that his first blast actually has an energy trail as well and wasn’t "thrown"

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Bold; So which ones need to? Your thesis was that the energy spheres have to be thrown because they have no speed on their own (because?) and now it's just some of them?

I'm saying not all his attacks need to be thrown. I concede that the first blast wasn't thrown after rewatching

Underline; Blatant throwing speed without actually throwing it? This is arbitrary.

Not all fictional characters need to physically hold stuff to throw them

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Not all fictional characters need to physically hold something to throw them

Using other verses do not helps your case. Again, this is a Miraculous discussion, not other verses

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Using other verses do not helps your case. Again, this is a Miraculous discussion, not other verses

"That's no different then someone like Goku throwing a ki blast"

I'm using Thanos as an example. Just because a character isn't physically holding something doesn't mean they aren't throwing it someway or another

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

I'm saying not all his attacks need to be thrown. I concede that the first blast wasn't thrown

His attacks don’t need to be actually thrown; as this point is neither stated and it's directly suggested otherwise.

Not all fictional characters need to physically hold something to throw them

This isn't related to the discussion, the scene shows that the speed of the meteors isn't related to the swing and the Space Stone itself has MHS+ attack speed because of this. All in all, this is a bad example.

Anyways, my apologies if coming out as rude.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

the scene shows that the speed of the meteors isn't related to the swing and the Space Stone itself has MHS+ attack speed because of this

Thanos grabs the meteors using the Space Stone and then throws it at Iron Man. But whatever

Or maybe I'm just an idiot and misinterpreting the scene

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Thanos grabs the meteors using the Space Stone and then throws it at Iron Man. But whatever

Or maybe I'm just an idiot and misinterpreting the scene

The point is that they don’t get their speed from Thanos' arm swing; as it's not Thanos who outputs the power, it's the space stone. That's unless you’re stating that Thanos is the one moving the entire mass of the shattered moon by himself at those speeds, which is what you’re arguing about Chat Blanc's blast.

Aside from that, that power wouldn’t be EM, it would be TK, which is absolutely the opposite of any dynamic that works through body gestures in terms of physical outputs (other than "tactile" telekinesis, which is a different thing); so the comparison simply doesn’t hold up even disregarding that they come from different verses altogether.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why does Ladybug scale to Cat Blanc's FTL beam? She dodged tiny disc throws, not his giant uncontrolled energy beam, and Cat Blanc's attacks don't all have the same attack speed

While I do see where you're coming from and would agree in outside circumstances, on the wiki unless there's an explicit statement about the attacks being slower/faster the base assumption is that if the character is seriously fighting someone else they wouldn't hold back their speed.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

While I do see where you're coming from and would agree in outside circumstances, on the wiki unless there's an explicit statement about the attacks being slower/faster the base assumption is that if the character is seriously fighting someone else they wouldn't hold back their speed.

Understandable

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So, it seems like only the FTL+ removal for Majestia is accepted

If so, then only her page needs to be edited and then the thread can be closed

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

So, it seems like only the FTL+ removal for Majestia is accepted

If so, then only her page needs to be edited and then the thread can be closed

Her page is already edited

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Her page is already edited

Alright then. So I guess this crt is now complete and can be closed

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.