Minor MFTL+ upgrades for Dragon Ball Z

[Vizer04]

Hello, this is a new conservative speed scale for DBZ (Cell and Buu Sagas included). Everything here is backed up by statements from the manga and approved multipliers (not including SS2 and SS3).

Namek Saga Super Saiyan Goku > 596c, likely 1490c

Future Gohan scales above that, so > 596c, likely 1490c

Android 17 is double of that, so > 1192c, likely 2980c

Semi-Perfect Cell is double of that since absorption adds the power of the absorbed individual, so > 2384c, likely 5960c

Cell Saga SSJ Goku is double of that, so > 4768c, likely 11920c

Pre-training Base Gotenks scales above that, so > 4768c, likely 11920c

Pre-training Super Saiyan Gotenks > 238400c, likely 596000c

Post-training Base Gotenks scales above that, so > 238400c, likely 596000c

Post-training Super Saiyan Gotenks > 11920000c, likely 29800000c

Buutenks should be at least 2x stronger than Super Saiyan Gotenks by the same reasoning as Cell and 17. This applies to Buuhan and Base Vegito (it was stated in El Manga Legendario that Base Vegito was stronger than a hypothetical fusion of Goku and Gohan) as well for obvious reasons:

Buutenks, Buuhan and Base Vegito > 23840000c, likely 59600000c

Super Saiyan Vegito > 1192000000c, likely 2980000000c

To give you an idea of the speed, this means that it would take 264.56 seconds for Super Saiyan Vegito to fly to Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy (the closest galaxy to Earth).

EDIT: here's the blog with the calculations.

 

[Coolboy6]

Following

 

[Vizer04]

@SirAlex09, i guess this is gonna happen again lmao

 

[Ganasto]

I agree, but not sure about the semi-perfect cell thing

 

[Vizer04]

I agree, but not sure about the semi-perfect cell thing

What's the issue with that?

 

[Ganasto]

What's the issue with that?

Actually nvm I agree, I didn't get why at first, but I think your reasoning is that android 17 and 18 are basically equal and imperfect cell was stronger than 18, so by absorbing 17 he's at least double

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I would say that instead you using Semi Perfect Cell and Android 17, I would use this scaling instead:

Namek SSJ Goku < Mecha Frieza << SSJ Trunk <= SSJ Future Gohan << 50% Android 17

 

[Bernkastelll]

Another Vizer CRT? Following

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Dammit, I was going to do this after the scaling is fixed, but you beat me to it. I suggest we fix the scaling of DBZ first before applying values. For example the first base gotenks is way weaker than base Goku in the buu saga, so Goku as a SSJ would scale higher, but SSJ Gotenks is above SSJ3 Goku, and post training base gotenks is above even that. and you have stuff like 50% gohan = SPC, which is 2x and other stuff you have to take into account but this isn't a bad start, although IDK about that semi cell stuff.

 

[Vizer04]

Any of the "50% of X character" scaling seems wonky to me, i'm not sure if it's safe to use them.

 

[Dalesean027]

Damn Vizer you've been killing lately, I'm following this

 

[SirAlex09]

@SirAlex09, i guess this is gonna happen again lmao

Prediction : Nullflowerblush " Only Staff can ping" XDDDDDDDDDD. Nevertheless I agree

 

[SirAlex09]

Second prediction: Staff: "Number too high with no feats. Let's close this thread"

 

[Ganasto]

Second prediction: Staff: "Number too high with no feats. Let's close this thread"

lmao I think that's exactly what's about to happen

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Second prediction: Staff: "Number too high with no feats. Let's close this thread"

No that won't happen, Super saiyan god just saved our asses with his ki blast moving across the macrocosm in like 2 seconds.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks okay I guess. Though where does Semi-Perfect Cell having a 2x multiplier come from?

 

[Ganasto]

Looks okay I guess. Though where does Semi-Perfect Cell having a 2x multiplier come from?

Imperfect cell after absorbing a lot of humans > Android 17 and Android 18, Android 18 is relative to Android 17, Semi-perfect cell absorbed Android 17 making him atleast 2x stronger than Android 18

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Imperfect cell after absorbing a lot of humans > Android 17 and Android 18, Android 18 is relative to Android 17, Semi-perfect cell absorbed Android 17 making him atleast 2x stronger than Android 18

We don't know if he got 2x faster too, we don't even know if it's a linear increase like that. But in my opinion it makes sense.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Another Vizer CRT? Following

Ahh Today is Rudy!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, I'm fine with absorption stuff and fusion stuff being AP multipliers, but not sure about speed. I know Kaioken and SSJ are multipliers for both, though I do agree Semi-Perfect Cell's PL is basically greater than the combined might of Android 16 and Android 17 though.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Well, I'm fine with absorption stuff and fusion stuff being AP multipliers, but not sure about speed. I know Kaioken and SSJ are multipliers for both, though I do agree Semi-Perfect Cell's PL is basically greater than the combined might of Android 16 and Android 17 though.

Logically, beings with stronger power levels also have their speed increase by a similar rate in DB, so Semi Perfect Cell should likely possess more than twice the speed of Android 17 and Android 18, considering how even Imperfect Cell blitzed and stomped the combined might of Android 17 and Piccolo

 

[InfiniteSped]

Are ya'll really taking a 0.7c feat and using multipliers to get it to 745 million c?

 

[Ganasto]

Are ya'll really taking a 0.7c feat and using multipliers to get it to 745 million c?

I don't really see the problem its just natural db speed progression

 

[InfiniteSped]

Do they have any other FTL feats around the mid and higher ends?

 

[Ganasto]

Do they have any other FTL feats around the mid and higher ends?

I don't think so, but the multipliers we use are very blatant increases, so I do not see why they cant be used. I don't think its really wank to say they've gotten a lot faster since that one feat from the beginning of the show, especially when we don't use ssj2 or ssj3 multipliers also there's a 196 quadrillion x sol feat in super

 

[Purgy]

Spoiler

I'm calling it now, this thread will be the catalyst for multiplier stacking being banned.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

multiplier stacking being banned

 

[Orange]

Third prediction: multipliers will get banned, speed feat standards will change, and we will stop using ssj and kk
Btw I agree with the thread

 

[Dalesean027]

Oh yeah If I didn't say before either I obviously agree

 

[Coolboy6]

If I haven’t said it before, I agree.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Nobody can say this is wank and multiplier abuse since it's accurate because they get such a big feat in the beginning of super, unlike my DBS speed thread which was nuked with multiplier abuse comments because there were no feats to prove it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Spoiler

I'm calling it now, this thread will be the catalyst for multiplier stacking being banned.

But... aren't they already? I sure as hell made profiles with the idea that no, I cannot stack x2 to 20 multipliers to get a result 1 billion greater than any actual feats.

Nobody can say this is wank and multiplier abuse since it's accurate because they get such a big feat in the beginning of super, unlike my DBS speed thread which was nuked with multiplier abuse comments because there were no feats to prove it.

How is that relevant for Cell and Buu saga stuff though?

 

[Nepuko]

Not really saying it's wank or anything of the sort, I merely was genuinly not aware we could use purely multipliers to boost something a billion times. It makes me and friends look like fools, we argued over 1k on 1k multipliers and how they shouldn't be applied with no real feat in that range and thought it was too big of a jump to be allowed without evidence...

This... this... is amazing if it's allowed! Hehehehehehehehe

 

[SirAlex09]

I called it guys. I called it. Remember when Leopold the Brave considered universal Goku planet++. Maybe DBZ characters are just hypersonic+++ fast

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

How is that relevant for Cell and Buu saga stuff though?

Because the argument is that we are using a relativistic feat to boost the speeds up MFTL+ without any actual feats, but it would be consistent with the story regardless because the multipliers are very accurate in actually scaling the power and speed of the characters and it's still lowballing massively, and it's also consistent with the huge as feat done in super which is the arc after buu.

 

[EmilioRory10]

Piccolo and Pre-training Base Gotenks scales above that, so > 1192c, likely 2980c

How does this prove Pre-Training Base Gotenks>Semi-Perfect Cell? Am I missing something?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

How does this prove Pre-Training Base Gotenks>Semi-Perfect Cell? Am I missing something?

Goten and trunks individually scale above this cell.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I called it guys. I called it. Remember when Leopold the Brave considered universal Goku planet++. Maybe DBZ characters are just hypersonic+++ fast

I mean, how many verses do use a billion fold multiplier that all relies on stacking two and one digit multipliers? If this is a common thing to do, then indeed some of the verses are know are in for upgrades.

Because the argument is that we are using a relativistic feat to boost the speeds up MFTL+ without any actual feats, but it would be consistent with the story regardless because the multipliers are very accurate in actually scaling the power and speed of the characters and it's still lowballing massively, and it's also consistent with the huge as feat done in super which is the arc after buu.

I know it's the Arc after Buu, but I also know characters on God juice Goku that saga would whoop Buu in the Buu saga. Probably, super was very wonky with scaling of weaker characters.

And as far as I was aware, multipliers on a scale above 100 - let alone stacked multipliers - need more than not contradicting things.

Mind, I don't oppose the concept. I do feel like it'll snowball until they are just banned. Not like there'd need to even be an edit for the multiplier page, as ambiguous as needing increasingly more proof above X100.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I mean, how many verses do use a billion fold multiplier that all relies on stacking two and one digit multipliers? If this is a common thing to do, then indeed some of the verses are know are in for upgrades.


I know it's the Arc after Buu, but I also know characters on God juice Goku that saga would whoop Buu in the Buu saga. Probably, super was very wonky with scaling of weaker characters.

And as far as I was aware, multipliers on a scale above 100 - let alone stacked multipliers - need more than not contradicting things.

Mind, I don't oppose the concept. I do feel like it'll snowball until they are just banned. Not like there'd need to even be an edit for the multiplier page, as ambiguous as needing increasingly more proof above X100.

The biggest multiplier that's being used in Z is only 50x not 100x or more, and it's backed up with a lot of proof. There is the SSB multiplier which is 2500x but it's also backed up by proof and accepted here.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The biggest multiplier that's being used in Z is only 50x not 100x or more, and it's backed up with a lot of proof. There is the SSB multiplier which is 2500x but it's also backed up by proof and accepted here.

Stacking multipliers does in-fact count against the total amount. And if not, why the hell would it not?

The end result is the characters are a billion times greater than the feats they have.

I'm not sure I even agree with speed scalin linearly with power multipliers, but that is a wholly different argument that I've no interest to get to.

Again, if this is allowed that's fine. I'm just saying that I'll apply the same logic to verses I'm dealing with.