Minato Reaction

[MostPowerfull]

A doubt ... This Minato feat would not be cast as a Sub-Relativist!? I glanced over and some calculations climbed him as Sub-Rel in reaction, for being able to dodge the Raikage's punch by 1-2cm away from his face :

http://i5.**********.com/naruto/542/naruto-2393997.jpg

I've heard that even if the character is Mach 100, to dodge that distance from a punch, it would still be Nigh-Sub Rel / Sub-Rel...What do you think!?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Minato used the Flying Thunder God aka instantaneous teleportation, now in that short time he managed to throw that kunai some distance but that's all.

 

[Reppuzan]

This would be calc stacking.

Regardless, reacting to a Mach 100 character's punch doesn't warrant Sub-Relativistic, it just means that you're faster than a Mach 100 character.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Yes it is an incredible feat of both speed of reaction and speed of movement as Minato managed to move his arm to throw that kunai in the air in the short time that Fourth Raikage was going to reach his head, whatever I doubt that goes from Something anecdotic as any result would be called calc stacking and there is no way to get rid of it.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dariel

It doesn't justify inflating the results that high though.

On top of that, using an existing calculated speed for another calc attempt is Calc Stacking, which is forbidden here since you can use it to scale characters up practically infinitely.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Lord

Yeah...But that would fit into a part of the page Reactions, where it is said there that a character can deviate without moving, as is the specific case of Minato.

@Reppuzan

Why? I have seen several times that Reaction feats are extremely different from Combat feats ... In the case, Minato reacted at an extremely small distance from the Raikage, so he would have to be much faster, this would have to put him as far above Of the Raikage's reaction, which as far as I know, is said to have the speed of lightning in the Databook. Since Sennin Naruto is calculated as Mach 370+, I think the Databook is correct in saying that the Raikage has at least the average speed of lightining (150km/s aka Mach 440).

Of course, this disregarding that Kirin is MHS+, as the Manga says.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Yeah I know, I never denied that

 

[Reppuzan]

@MostPowerful

Our Calc Stacking rules are pretty much rigid. Here's why.

Let's say we have Character X, who was calced to move at Mach 100. Then Character Y dodges his attacks with ease from point blank range. Then a calc is used with the Mach 100 to find a timeframe. Then Character X dodges an attack from Character Y. That gets calced with the previously upgraded speed rating. Then Character Y dodges an attack from X. And thus the process repeats ad infinitum, leading to drastically inflated values.

The Raikage's rating comes from keeping up with Naruto who fought Pai, not some arbitrary flowery statement from a notoriously unreliable databook (Temari blows away the universe anyone).

Authors usually don't know what they're doing in regards to math and timeframes (heck Superman's solution to the math problem described in the picture we have for our calculations page is mathematically incorrect), so we tend to ignore statements like the one referring to Kirin's lightning in favor of rigorous scientific studies on the speed of lightning.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Oh, so I'm sorry. I interpreted that you were saying that it is not a feat of reaction for Minato not to move ...

 

[Amexim]

Wait, to clarify, you're saying that if I dodge your attack moving at the speed of light, and then you dodge my FTL attack, and we keep avoiding each other's attacks, that makes our speed sky rocket? I thought we just assumed that they're around the same speed for being able to react TO EACH OTHER. Am I wrong here?

 

[Heatforce]

What happens if a character reacts to Minato or the Second Hokage? e.g. Let's say Minato TP's behind a character who in turn reacts to Minato in some physical way, wouldn't reacting to a TPer be FTL or even MFTL?

 

[Amexim]

Also, is it really ok to write off an entire book for a few obvious exaggerations/mistranslations? I can obviously tell the difference between which is exaggeration and which isn't, can't you? And even then, that MHS calc is confusing because I'm pretty sure I saw Naruto being less than a football field's distance from Pain in both the manga and the anime. Can you clarify? I'm just asking questions, no disrespect.

 

[Amexim]

@Heatforce

I don't think so. Just because someone got behind you instantly doesn't mean that their strike is at the speed of light.

 

[Heatforce]

True but reacting to someone physically being behind you when they were perhaps miles away should mean something. Also, iirc Minato did save baby Naruto just as an explosive tag was about to go off and we see those things explode with various time limits.

 

[Amexim]

Yeah, but it's unquantifiable. If I suddenly teleport to where you are, and you-- who can, like, sense chi or something-- can sense that I just got behind you, and you dodge my punch-- that doesn't mean you're light speed or instant. It would be the exact same as if I teleported in front of you all of a sudden and you dodged the punch I just started to throw. You registered the fact that I was in front of you, sure, but dodging my punch is completely different. You get me? Am I botching the explanation? And, like, dodging an explosion is a feat of course, but not a reaction feat per se. He outran the explosion, so it's a speed feat.

Like, that's actually a really good indicator. Minato saw the paper bomb was on there-- or, like, he saw someone throw a grenade in his face. Him out running the blast after it explodes and him reacting to the explosion and dodging it himself, like he was caught off guard or something is another example.

 

[Heatforce]

Fair point

 

[Omimi]

Temari blows away the universe

pls it was mistranslation why are we repeating same thing over and over

Calc Stacking

how thats going to Calc Stacking when 4th raikage use his top speed

 

[Reppuzan]

Because A is scaled to Naruto, who's scaled to Pain, whose speed was calced. Therefore, textbook calc stacking.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Reppuzan

But that makes it contradictory, since the one who speeds at Pain is Naruto Sennin, not Naruto KCM. In the case here, Databook did not take the term of a calculation, but an extremely common quotation in the fictitious field, so it would not be scaled, as far as I know. Nothing prevents or contradicts A and Naruto KCM as fast as Lightning, since the Raikage was even able to escape the perception of Mangekyou Sasuke.

Mistranslation. The kanji in japanese for the word Universe, is also the same kanji of World, Nature, Society, among others ... Being the correct translation, it would be Nature that has several meanings and one of them, WE SEE, that it did indeed, Which would be to destroy various trees and etc., which would be the set of elements of the natural world. Since, if I am not mistaken, it is declared to be able to wipe out an entire forest ...

I saw that the deadline is not accepted, as it was said by Zetsu, I think I saw these words of Antvasima. Anyway, we would have to prove that he did not know what he was saying. Once he left it specified that even the Gennins are apt to know about cryptography and other things much heavier, such as espionage, he says a deadline for THEIR WORK, is very common. We would have to prove that, Zetsu was lying or deceived in what he said about the Lightning and... And this we can not do, without using our assumption and ignoring the manga itself.

To say that the author, in a simplified way, said shit because we do not want to accept what he said, does not sound ANYTHING correct.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Reppuzan

But I understand your point. Thanks for review!

 

[Reppuzan]

The fact that Kirin comes from the sky and is stated to be natural lightning heavily contradicts Kishimoto's statement, since natural lightning does not move that fast on average.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Reppuzan. Perhaps we should close this thread?

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Reppuzan

I see ... But would that change anything? After all, I've seen articles that say a lightning bolt moves at Mach 5000+, I think it's one of the fastest or fastest ever registered ib Brazil :

http://noticias.terra.com.br/ciencia/interna/0,,OI1742582-EI238,00.html

Would not that change anything !? This is the last question ...

@Antvasima

It's okay for me.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

Btw: Here are our standards for lighting speed.