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Well, Ulquiorra is now 7-A. As I remember he was High 6-C/6-B
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Minato Namikaze vs Grimmjow
- Thread starter Sonicflare9
- Start date
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Where you got that info from that Cursed Mark gives you 10x greater power?
From the manga.
Also,this reyatsu crush or whatever it is called is annoying,many of the Bleach vs Threads are Reyatsu crush discussions.A lot of people disagree with its mechanics here,maybe you should create a thread regarding that and verse equalization or link it if it was already discussed.
From the manga.
Also,this reyatsu crush or whatever it is called is annoying,many of the Bleach vs Threads are Reyatsu crush discussions.A lot of people disagree with its mechanics here,maybe you should create a thread regarding that and verse equalization or link it if it was already discussed.
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I wanted a panel proving that.Dzhindzholia said:
It would be nonsense to restrict reiatsu crush for the sake of discussion. Why not putting Bleach characters against ones that actually possess Soul Manipulation resistance? It would be a better match for this moment where reiatsu crush is accepted.
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The Curse Mark is explained by Jirobo to be a 10x increase (His type anyway).
And you could restrict Reiatsu Crush, it just wouldn't be added then. Also there's already a thread for Reiatsu Crush. And RC has been accepted for a while, it's why Bleach vs OP matches aren't a thing.
And you could restrict Reiatsu Crush, it just wouldn't be added then. Also there's already a thread for Reiatsu Crush. And RC has been accepted for a while, it's why Bleach vs OP matches aren't a thing.
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There is the panel ,next time just check the profiles.
It would be nonsense to restrict reiatsu crush for the sake of discussion. Why not putting Bleach characters against ones that actually possess Soul Manipulation resistance? It would be a better match for this moment where reiatsu crush is accepted.
It is controversal and many people disagree with how it works,I didn't say restrict it,I said just discuss it and create a standard or something.Every thread it is being discussed,that annoys.
It would be nonsense to restrict reiatsu crush for the sake of discussion. Why not putting Bleach characters against ones that actually possess Soul Manipulation resistance? It would be a better match for this moment where reiatsu crush is accepted.
It is controversal and many people disagree with how it works,I didn't say restrict it,I said just discuss it and create a standard or something.Every thread it is being discussed,that annoys.
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He said HIS power was increased by ten times. It doesn't say that every curse mark user is 10 times stronger than before. If that was a thing then Sasuke would stomp Naruto instantly in Valley of the End. And Yoruichi literally explained that Bankai power is around 5-10x greater for EVERY user. So even the most powerful Zanpakuto like Nozarashi or Ryujin Jakka can evolve to being much greater in power, while their Shikai itself is stronger than most Bankai of lieutenants/some captains. And it still depends on how much user growths.
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Can't we close this and move on with narutovsbleach?
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Yes his power increased by 10 when he used the curse mark... meaning it's a 10x boost why would he be the only one with that boost And sasume did stomp naruto once he used the CM, he instantly blitzed him and put a hole In his lung, the tide swung back into narutos favor when he used some kyubi chakra (hair got all spiky long nails)Ôü░
Regardless this is about SM, which is a higher boost then SM alongside the pre cog
Regardless this is about SM, which is a higher boost then SM alongside the pre cog
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It really depends of someone's base form and how strong it is. If Madara used Cursed Mark would his power increase 10 times? Jirobo himself wasn't that strong in base so it multiplied his own power, but he still got his ass owned by Choji in butterfly mode.
I meant 1 Tailed Naruto vs CM Sasuke.
We are still comparing Resurreccion and Sage Mode. Resurreccion is compared to Shikai/Bankai by Kisuke and Mayuri, and Bankai itself is 5-10 times stronger than Shikai, that is already far greater power than in base form (just look at Yumichika who's 3rd Seat of the 11th Division and his Shikai is >>>>>>>>> his base form). Sage Mode is power boost to base form itself. It doesn't have any stages and maybe it is 10 times greater than for example Jiraiya's/Naruto's base form, but it still has many weaknessess (like time to gather energy or limitation). Zanpakuto doesn't have time limits or required time to release them.
I meant 1 Tailed Naruto vs CM Sasuke.
We are still comparing Resurreccion and Sage Mode. Resurreccion is compared to Shikai/Bankai by Kisuke and Mayuri, and Bankai itself is 5-10 times stronger than Shikai, that is already far greater power than in base form (just look at Yumichika who's 3rd Seat of the 11th Division and his Shikai is >>>>>>>>> his base form). Sage Mode is power boost to base form itself. It doesn't have any stages and maybe it is 10 times greater than for example Jiraiya's/Naruto's base form, but it still has many weaknessess (like time to gather energy or limitation). Zanpakuto doesn't have time limits or required time to release them.
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Jirobo simply states 10x, theres no evidence to point to it being based on the users latent ability, that would actually apply to bankai lol, and that's because butterfly choji is a 100x boost iirc
That just means 1 tailed is also a good amp
That still means res is below a 10x multiplier,since yorouchi statement is comparing it from shikai to bankai not bankai to base, and perfect sages literally blink and enter SM (naruto minato and hashirama)
That just means 1 tailed is also a good amp
That still means res is below a 10x multiplier,since yorouchi statement is comparing it from shikai to bankai not bankai to base, and perfect sages literally blink and enter SM (naruto minato and hashirama)
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He literally stated that HIS power it ten times greater than before. That doesn't mean every user has his power increased to that extent. I'll repeat myself - if Madara somehow received Cursed Mark, would he be 10 times stronger than before? No.Kidkinsey said:
I'm not denying that Cursed Mark is a good amp to Sasuke or One Tail to Naruto. Of course they should be much stronger. But I just don't think it compares to Arrancar Resurreccion or Shinigami Shikai/Bankai. Starrk already in his Resurreccion was kicking ass of 4 captains with Shikai released, and that was a first stage of Resurreccion (because Starrk didn't had Segunda Etapa, unlike Ulquiorra who was the only one). I'm not comparing Naruto/Sasuke and Starrk power of course but how much they stat amps compare, which is what we are talking about.
Yeah there you should be right, except that part with Minato, he needed to gather surrounding energy for a long time to enter Sage Mode and he said himself that Senjutsu is not really his forte and is weak at it. https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5a2c47562103235789620ca3ad8a449b.webp
It depends which Resurreccion we are comparing. There are Hollow Zanpakuto that can already compare in first stage of Resurreccion to some Bankai, like Grimmjow's, Starrk's, Ulquiorra's, Harribel's or Barragan's. Kisuke and Mayuri were comparing it to Shinigami's Zanpakuto because they both can't be repaired if they're damage in final release, but they didn't know how much they increase the power. That was a hypothesis. Or maybe I remember that in a wrong way? Someone can correct me if I'm not right, I watched Bleach long time ago
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I'm just addressing a few points that came up earlier since I'm not in the mood to read the whole thread:
- Reiatsu Crush relies on how big the difference between the two spiritual energies is. I saw a thread about Reiatsu =/= AP, but AFAIK in Naruto the more Chakra you can exert, the stronger you are, and if both characters scales to similar feats (sans the scaling chains) then Reiatsu Crush is unlikely to happen in a lethal way. If Grimmjow holds an advantage it'd need to be massive to put Minato down just with that. If both are 7-A+ the gap can't be that high, unless Grimmjow has feats of doing something like that to people comparable to him.
- Whether is spirit-based or mind-based, both energies are depicted as spiritual energy and works on similar fashions, so verse equalization covers that. The actual question is, can Minato touch or even see Grimmjow? As usual, Bleach's mechanics are unknown for me considering how many different opinions exists about the same verse for every user.
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Yes jirobo says his because he is talking about himself, he has no reason to mention other people, why wouldnt madara get a 10x boost by using the CM, unless stated it depends on the user it's a 10x boost
I'm not sure what starks performance has to do with an amp, an amp we know its below 5-10x
Idk why he said it takes him time to do it when right after that he blinks and it's there lol
Again that's user dependent not really a stat boost, res is only a stat boost, SM is Stats and precog
I'm not sure what starks performance has to do with an amp, an amp we know its below 5-10x
Idk why he said it takes him time to do it when right after that he blinks and it's there lol
Again that's user dependent not really a stat boost, res is only a stat boost, SM is Stats and precog
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Naruto the more Chakra you can exert, the stronger you are, and if both characters scales to similar feats
AP isn't dependant on how much Chakra you have in Naruto. Naruto himself had farmore chakra than Kakashi as a kid, but Kakashi easily spanked him.
@Kidkinsey
SM users don't have Precog anymore. It's getting replaced by Movement Prediction. Also Souls in Naruto work different from Bleach, due to the fact they are visible to people, whereas Bleach's are not.
AP isn't dependant on how much Chakra you have in Naruto. Naruto himself had farmore chakra than Kakashi as a kid, but Kakashi easily spanked him.
@Kidkinsey
SM users don't have Precog anymore. It's getting replaced by Movement Prediction. Also Souls in Naruto work different from Bleach, due to the fact they are visible to people, whereas Bleach's are not.
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They scale to Kirin right now. I don't even know why they should scale to that meteor, since they already scale far higher than that and they were afraid of that meteor (Huh, 7-A TS is bullshit). So yeah, Minato is stronger and faster than Grimmjow, and Calaca pointed out some good points about RC.Hst master said:
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You need outstanding reiatsu (be a Quincy/Hollow/Shinigami/Fullbringer) to see the souls. Chad could beat the shit out of Hollow though, even if he couldn't see him (Rukia gave him directions xD)
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So? I was just pointing out that Precog is getting replaced. I honestly don't care about the SM vs Resurrection side debate.Kidkinsey said:
Also that's what you need in the Bleach verse, not the Naruto verse.
@M3X
Kirin is 600MT, unless it got recalc'd for the umpteenth time. Also Calaca thought Chakra worked the same as Reiatsu as the more you have = Stronger. Which isn't true provided by the Naruto and Kakashi example.
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Also Reiatsu Crush doesn't always have to be lethal. Unless they have absolutely no resistance to Soul Manipulation it could pin the opposing person to the ground.
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I didn't say it depends on how much you have but how much you can exert. Naruto improved a lot after he learned how to control his Chakra or when he unlocked the Bijuu cloak.
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Exert chakra / = / amount of inner chakra.
Reiatsu Crush still not working in Minato, according to Bleachverse's own explanation..
Reiatsu Crush still not working in Minato, according to Bleachverse's own explanation..
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It's not based on that at all. It depends on the Quality of the Chakra, it's why Karin is always more worried about how the chakra feels than how much is being exerted as with Bee. Naruto's Biju Cloak isn't exerted Chakra but higher quality stuff than a majority of other Ninjas.
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None of this matters since Minato has no resistance feats.
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@HST
This example is false. You said "Kakashi easily spanked him." but this has to do with combat ability and not a clash of power. During Part I, Kakashi and Naruto have never had a power struggle between their chakra for you to state it. During Part II, Kakashi said Naruto has 100x more chakra than he does, and Naruto shows a far more destructive attack than anything Kakashi has shown. Naruto has more chakra than Kakashi and by logic, has more power. During Part I he just did not have as much ability and control of that power to be so effective. I remember Sakura's explanation of chakra saying that it is no good to use a huge amount of chakra if you do not know how to control. There are several examples showing that more chakra = stronger. Jinchuuriki's transformations are nothing more than an increase in the chakra. Naruto has a jumptier between 7-A + and 6-C with this increased chakra, the same goes for the lightning armor, which the Raikages use.
Well I remember a calc with 700MT+ result but Minato still stronger.
This example is false. You said "Kakashi easily spanked him." but this has to do with combat ability and not a clash of power. During Part I, Kakashi and Naruto have never had a power struggle between their chakra for you to state it. During Part II, Kakashi said Naruto has 100x more chakra than he does, and Naruto shows a far more destructive attack than anything Kakashi has shown. Naruto has more chakra than Kakashi and by logic, has more power. During Part I he just did not have as much ability and control of that power to be so effective. I remember Sakura's explanation of chakra saying that it is no good to use a huge amount of chakra if you do not know how to control. There are several examples showing that more chakra = stronger. Jinchuuriki's transformations are nothing more than an increase in the chakra. Naruto has a jumptier between 7-A + and 6-C with this increased chakra, the same goes for the lightning armor, which the Raikages use.
Well I remember a calc with 700MT+ result but Minato still stronger.
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Naruto's Jinchuriki Transformations is literally just him swapping his chakra with Kurama's and which case without Kurama he already has a huge amount. And if you don't like the Kakashi and Naruto example there's also Kakashi and Guy, Kakashi also notes he naturally doesn't have a lot of Chakra in the 1st place. Sakura states that about Chakra control but that's completely contradictive about your argument as Chakra Control isn't about Exerting Chakra, it's about controlling it to a focal point that has much higher AP than you would usually in Sakura's Case(Sakura and Tsunade's Monster Strength) or to waste less Chakra doing a justu than you have to, as Ebisu explains in Part 1 after the Prelims of the Chunin Exams, it's even what the Water Walking Excersise was for.
And I'm 99% sure that's Tengai Shinsei as it was 738MT.
And I'm 99% sure that's Tengai Shinsei as it was 738MT.
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Minato should have soul resistance seeing as how kcm naruto and orochimaru do They were literally playing tug of war for their soul
And movement prediction is more so what the sharigan does, the SM sensing is different why is it being changed lol
And so outside of the bleach how do you see souls then, the naruto characters seeing edo souls float away should be enough
And movement prediction is more so what the sharigan does, the SM sensing is different why is it being changed lol
And so outside of the bleach how do you see souls then, the naruto characters seeing edo souls float away should be enough
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maybe some shinobi do but it's incredibly draining for them as they need to complelty focus their strengh to not instantly loose their soul.
so against a passive aura that is always on , it mean they wouldn't be able to fight and resist the soul crush at the same time .
their resistance would prevent them from dying right away tho.
souls in bleach are invisible , is there any quote in naruto that say that souls are invisible ? when neji died i don't remember seeing his soul . the time they have been visible was when a jutsu was used , never naturally.
so against a passive aura that is always on , it mean they wouldn't be able to fight and resist the soul crush at the same time .
their resistance would prevent them from dying right away tho.
souls in bleach are invisible , is there any quote in naruto that say that souls are invisible ? when neji died i don't remember seeing his soul . the time they have been visible was when a jutsu was used , never naturally.
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when dangai ichigo showed up to save them from chrysalis aizen they werent just being vaporzied, reitsu crush only really works when the gap is HUGE, and their passive aura isnt trying to take their soul out like the reaper death seal
and arent they only invisible to people who arent spiritually aware?
and arent they only invisible to people who arent spiritually aware?
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once again , ichigo friends have soul manip resistance feat against beings far stronger than them , reiatsu can be controlled if needed and aizen/ichigo weren't in fight mode near them.
naruto characther struggle against a technique that rip one soul at a time from characther that are on their level.
tatsuki resisted yammy's gonzui that rip hundreds of souls. tatsuki is 10-A ,yammy is 7-A , her resistance is massive.
naruto characther struggle against a technique that rip one soul at a time from characther that are on their level.
tatsuki resisted yammy's gonzui that rip hundreds of souls. tatsuki is 10-A ,yammy is 7-A , her resistance is massive.
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can ya'll settle on this stupid "hollows can't be seen" in other verses?
Naruto character have seen souls((nagato soul pulling and naruto looking at it being pulled out)), ghosts((ghosts are constantly brought up in the lore)), astral beings ((hagoromo and otsusuki spirits like momoshiki and hamura)) and spirits alike ((death reaper seal))
Reiatsu crush isn't going to help a bleach character in this situation
Tobirama has flexed his energy out and no one died
the Juubi shook the entire planet and no one died
and yes, this energy flexing is something that actually has an effect on the areas mass as shown in Boruto : https://img.fireden.net/a/image/1499/97/1499975354065.jpg
theres too much energy ((chakra)) which indeed can have its own mass and it was enough to be detected far beyond the range of earth's solay system
Naruto character have seen souls((nagato soul pulling and naruto looking at it being pulled out)), ghosts((ghosts are constantly brought up in the lore)), astral beings ((hagoromo and otsusuki spirits like momoshiki and hamura)) and spirits alike ((death reaper seal))
Reiatsu crush isn't going to help a bleach character in this situation
Tobirama has flexed his energy out and no one died
the Juubi shook the entire planet and no one died
and yes, this energy flexing is something that actually has an effect on the areas mass as shown in Boruto : https://img.fireden.net/a/image/1499/97/1499975354065.jpg
theres too much energy ((chakra)) which indeed can have its own mass and it was enough to be detected far beyond the range of earth's solay system
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For this battle Minato out speeds Grimmjow in reaction as well as combat speed via FTG
he has sealing techniques if to take out Grimmjow from continoing a battle at all, not even needing sage mode Minato can plant a TP seal on Grimmjow and ram a rasengan into his back-- and continously use that TP over many more times
he has sealing techniques if to take out Grimmjow from continoing a battle at all, not even needing sage mode Minato can plant a TP seal on Grimmjow and ram a rasengan into his back-- and continously use that TP over many more times
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the only time souls have been seen in naruto were by the use of a jutsu.
no soul from any ninja were seen when they died naturaly ,like when neji died .
tobirama aura flex doesn't affect the soul so i don't see what's your point ,same for the juubi. Aura in naruto can't kill or severly affect the opponent , in bleach it can.
reiatsu can be felt throught other dimensions so once again ,i don't see your point .
no soul manip resistance= you're done.
no soul from any ninja were seen when they died naturaly ,like when neji died .
tobirama aura flex doesn't affect the soul so i don't see what's your point ,same for the juubi. Aura in naruto can't kill or severly affect the opponent , in bleach it can.
reiatsu can be felt throught other dimensions so once again ,i don't see your point .
no soul manip resistance= you're done.
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it doesn't matter if jutsus were used in order for people to see souls-- they were still visible.
Souls in Naruto aren't common like in a show in Bleach where people seek them out as a daily job.
The point stands: ghosts, spirits, astral beings and things alike are visible in the Narutoverse and thats the fact.
and the Tobirama point wasn't for the topic of souls, it was for the topic of flexing out mass amounts of energy as people do with Reiatsu flexing. The pressurized field techniques are not exclusive to bleach and a lot of other verses have their own resistance to being held down or crushed by things like that.
Souls in Naruto aren't common like in a show in Bleach where people seek them out as a daily job.
The point stands: ghosts, spirits, astral beings and things alike are visible in the Narutoverse and thats the fact.
and the Tobirama point wasn't for the topic of souls, it was for the topic of flexing out mass amounts of energy as people do with Reiatsu flexing. The pressurized field techniques are not exclusive to bleach and a lot of other verses have their own resistance to being held down or crushed by things like that.
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Where the souls when Haku and Zabuza died? Or maybe Neji? Or Kakashi vs Pain? Jiraiya? Asuma? Etc etc? Not once was a soul visible to anyone unless a jutsu was involved and made the soul visible so to say that the jutsu being used is irrelevant is incredibly disingenuous. Alternatively, if the souls are always visible, why does that let Minato see an invisible one?
And every time they show up, its due to a jutsu. Damn its almost like jutsu consistently make them visible.
Glad you agree that they are simply visible and thus Minato can't see Grimm.
.......... you really missed the point of this one. Tobi flexing is meant to show that chakra does not do the same thing as reiatsu because it doesnt. Show a single scan of chakra being flexed and it doing things like reiatsu. Also being a physical force is irrelevant when reiatsu isnt a physical force but a spiritual, so you needs to show that flexing chakra affects the soul like reiatsu.
And every time they show up, its due to a jutsu. Damn its almost like jutsu consistently make them visible.
Glad you agree that they are simply visible and thus Minato can't see Grimm.
.......... you really missed the point of this one. Tobi flexing is meant to show that chakra does not do the same thing as reiatsu because it doesnt. Show a single scan of chakra being flexed and it doing things like reiatsu. Also being a physical force is irrelevant when reiatsu isnt a physical force but a spiritual, so you needs to show that flexing chakra affects the soul like reiatsu.
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Woah hold up. That can be written off as just plot. But Shikamaru still saw Asuma who even spoke to him when he defeated Hidan. Kakashi was coming back to life anyway which is why I said it's plot and why we didn't see his soul.
Also Minato summoned the death god. In the series we still don't even know what that thing is because it never really got explained
Also Minato summoned the death god. In the series we still don't even know what that thing is because it never really got explained
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Spirits and ghosts present themselves when they want to interact with people. Naruto's verse doesn't always deal with ghosts so they dont always depict souls being seen but for any case where a soul could be visualized, they were seen by people.
All the cases where Naruto characters see spirits and etc. happens during jutsu because they don't have to deal with fighting spirits as they're often sent to the "Pure Land", which is another place people don't have access to, and isn't described to be on a different plane within the same dimension.
Henceforth, when spirits and ghosts are in the same dimension as ninja they can be detected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz17OhZsUfI 1:09 Orochimaru stares at his soul being cut off partially
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwoy-VWtL_8 6:44 Naruto stares at his soul and literally has a tug of war with it to pull it back in
Orochimaru sends out souls to the plane people exist on, from the trapped stomach prison of the Shinigami:
https://gyazo.com/02554a91ffadb67ff96e0731af607077
-- Hagoromo summoning souls from the spirit land to intervine with something in the story
Unlike in Bleach where Souls remain in a purgatory like state and are allowed to **** with people in the "main world", albeirt in another plane, in Naruto the souls are deliberately sent to another dimension that only dead people can access. The only interaction characters have with that place is to call forth a soul-- but if the soul is in the same plane and presence then they can and will be detected.
To further eleborate, IN THE CASE of purgatory, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Limbo:_Border_Jail where souls cannot be interacted with Limbo spawns can only be interacted with if you have six paths chakra/senjutsu. There's no comparison of Madara's limbo clones being souls but they're described to be on another plane that coexists with the regular world.
Ninjas have no problem jumping to other dimensions, places they can't even acess without forceful entrance.
The point I'm making is in Naruto, souls aren't in purgatory like they are in Bleach, they're sent to another place entirely.
This concludes that : Yes, Souls CAN be seen they just aren't regularly because they're not even in the same plane as the regular world. And not to be confused with other series that have souls and spirits trapped in Purgatory, its explained souls are sent to a place other than purgatory in Naruto. Purgatory and the Pure Land are two seperate entities and are depicted differently.
And furthermore, people in the Pure Land can forcefully jump out to interact with people in the regular world, as did a soul before heading back in.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111210761/5034638-naruto-5158785.jpg -- Hagoromo talking about Pureland
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f83528d1f7ab1d773d9f39f6f1489cff.webp\ -- Obito jumping out of the Pureland forcefully
https://gyazo.com/cbf890754a737db48289e6c0ec48f2ed
Dan leaving to go back to the pureland, and not purgatory
As for Reiatsu crushing,
Its described that Reiatsu is the spiritual pressure rather than just being Spiritual energy
cool
Reiatsu being the force of energy contained within a person being released just means someone with a large amount of energy is exerting their force outward. This can be combated if you have an equal or higher amount of energy that the person exerting out force. Gladly, most veres show a clear distinction of matching energy being used or when someone far exceeds the other person-- and if not you could just figure it out by who exerts more force via feats but thats a different topic.
https://bleach.fandom.com/wiki/Reiryoku Reiryoku is essentially described as energy-- and the more of this spiritual energy you have the stronger you can be going to superhuman abilities and higher. It also counts as will power.
COINCIDENTALLY
Chakra is a combination of spiritual and physically energy
The point being, both are energy regardless.
If you look at how Reiatsu and Reiryoku are described, and then understand how Reiatsu crushing works-- its essentially ******* useless in other verses where someone can output more energy than the Bleach character Reiatsu crushing. By their own rule, People with greater control over their own spiritual energy, and large amounts or more than the opposing person can simply negate the Reiatsu crush.
With Naruto characters having both spiritual and physical energy as chakra, showcasing crazy control of manipulating this form of energy, and also having a LOT of it-- carrying amounts of energy where they could casually produce high level nuclear attacks, excert crazy amounts of force and what not ((not even including the merge of natural energy from the planet which Naruto has swallowed whole before)) It is unlikely in a VsBattle for ninjas that have a lot of chakra to fall to Reiatsu crushing.
Reiatsu crushing as I said before is useless when two characters match the same tier of physical durability, because even if its never stated in one persons verse that they are using spiritual energy Reiatsu is described as a physical force.
If we could brush this aside and actually get back to the battle between the two characters that'd be great.
All the cases where Naruto characters see spirits and etc. happens during jutsu because they don't have to deal with fighting spirits as they're often sent to the "Pure Land", which is another place people don't have access to, and isn't described to be on a different plane within the same dimension.
Henceforth, when spirits and ghosts are in the same dimension as ninja they can be detected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz17OhZsUfI 1:09 Orochimaru stares at his soul being cut off partially
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwoy-VWtL_8 6:44 Naruto stares at his soul and literally has a tug of war with it to pull it back in
Orochimaru sends out souls to the plane people exist on, from the trapped stomach prison of the Shinigami:
https://gyazo.com/02554a91ffadb67ff96e0731af607077
-- Hagoromo summoning souls from the spirit land to intervine with something in the story
Unlike in Bleach where Souls remain in a purgatory like state and are allowed to **** with people in the "main world", albeirt in another plane, in Naruto the souls are deliberately sent to another dimension that only dead people can access. The only interaction characters have with that place is to call forth a soul-- but if the soul is in the same plane and presence then they can and will be detected.
To further eleborate, IN THE CASE of purgatory, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Limbo:_Border_Jail where souls cannot be interacted with Limbo spawns can only be interacted with if you have six paths chakra/senjutsu. There's no comparison of Madara's limbo clones being souls but they're described to be on another plane that coexists with the regular world.
Ninjas have no problem jumping to other dimensions, places they can't even acess without forceful entrance.
The point I'm making is in Naruto, souls aren't in purgatory like they are in Bleach, they're sent to another place entirely.
This concludes that : Yes, Souls CAN be seen they just aren't regularly because they're not even in the same plane as the regular world. And not to be confused with other series that have souls and spirits trapped in Purgatory, its explained souls are sent to a place other than purgatory in Naruto. Purgatory and the Pure Land are two seperate entities and are depicted differently.
And furthermore, people in the Pure Land can forcefully jump out to interact with people in the regular world, as did a soul before heading back in.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111210761/5034638-naruto-5158785.jpg -- Hagoromo talking about Pureland
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f83528d1f7ab1d773d9f39f6f1489cff.webp\ -- Obito jumping out of the Pureland forcefully
https://gyazo.com/cbf890754a737db48289e6c0ec48f2ed
Dan leaving to go back to the pureland, and not purgatory
As for Reiatsu crushing,
Its described that Reiatsu is the spiritual pressure rather than just being Spiritual energy
cool
Reiatsu being the force of energy contained within a person being released just means someone with a large amount of energy is exerting their force outward. This can be combated if you have an equal or higher amount of energy that the person exerting out force. Gladly, most veres show a clear distinction of matching energy being used or when someone far exceeds the other person-- and if not you could just figure it out by who exerts more force via feats but thats a different topic.
https://bleach.fandom.com/wiki/Reiryoku Reiryoku is essentially described as energy-- and the more of this spiritual energy you have the stronger you can be going to superhuman abilities and higher. It also counts as will power.
COINCIDENTALLY
Chakra is a combination of spiritual and physically energy
The point being, both are energy regardless.
If you look at how Reiatsu and Reiryoku are described, and then understand how Reiatsu crushing works-- its essentially ******* useless in other verses where someone can output more energy than the Bleach character Reiatsu crushing. By their own rule, People with greater control over their own spiritual energy, and large amounts or more than the opposing person can simply negate the Reiatsu crush.
With Naruto characters having both spiritual and physical energy as chakra, showcasing crazy control of manipulating this form of energy, and also having a LOT of it-- carrying amounts of energy where they could casually produce high level nuclear attacks, excert crazy amounts of force and what not ((not even including the merge of natural energy from the planet which Naruto has swallowed whole before)) It is unlikely in a VsBattle for ninjas that have a lot of chakra to fall to Reiatsu crushing.
Reiatsu crushing as I said before is useless when two characters match the same tier of physical durability, because even if its never stated in one persons verse that they are using spiritual energy Reiatsu is described as a physical force.
If we could brush this aside and actually get back to the battle between the two characters that'd be great.
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cool , none of that prove that souls in naruto are invisible to begin with so what is your point ?
reiatsu target the SOUL , it doesn't target the body , shinigami and hollow are souls yet reiatsu can affect them despite their resistance to soul manip.
chakra isn't a product of spiritual energy the same way that reishi is . chakra is spiritual as in the mind/spirit , reishi is spiritual as in the soul .
"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience"
as you can see , seishin energy even though it is refered as spiritual come in fact from the MENTAL/MIND
now let's look at bleach reishi/reiryoku :
"Reishi (Ú£èÕ¡É, Spirit Particles) is the main component material of Souls and all spiritual matter."
"Reishi composes the spiritual bodies of Hollows and Shinigami, and the two planes of existence, Hueco Mundo and Soul Society in their entirety. Reishi is invisible to mortals, with the exception of spiritually aware ones such as the Quincy; they can, however, still interact with normal matter and produce physical effects. It is noted, however, that Reishi and atoms do not mix well."
"The difference between spiritual energy and spiritual pressure is simple: Reiryoku is the amount of energy a being has stored within their body or soul, whereas Reiatsu is the pressure that a person's Reiryoku exerts. In other words, Reiryoku is potential while Reiatsu is energy in use and can be sensed by other spiritually aware beings. In general, those with high levels of Reiryoku will often have the highest levels of Reiatsu also. A skilled warrior can overcome a person possessing greater Reiryoku by possessing greater Reiatsu - this is achieved by having greater control over their own spiritual energy."
now that we indeed proven that naruto chakra doesn't have anything in common with bleach reishi/reiryoku/reiatsu and thus naruto characthers have no defense agaisnt it , can we please go back to the fight ?
reiatsu target the SOUL , it doesn't target the body , shinigami and hollow are souls yet reiatsu can affect them despite their resistance to soul manip.
chakra isn't a product of spiritual energy the same way that reishi is . chakra is spiritual as in the mind/spirit , reishi is spiritual as in the soul .
"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience"
as you can see , seishin energy even though it is refered as spiritual come in fact from the MENTAL/MIND
now let's look at bleach reishi/reiryoku :
"Reishi (Ú£èÕ¡É, Spirit Particles) is the main component material of Souls and all spiritual matter."
"Reishi composes the spiritual bodies of Hollows and Shinigami, and the two planes of existence, Hueco Mundo and Soul Society in their entirety. Reishi is invisible to mortals, with the exception of spiritually aware ones such as the Quincy; they can, however, still interact with normal matter and produce physical effects. It is noted, however, that Reishi and atoms do not mix well."
"The difference between spiritual energy and spiritual pressure is simple: Reiryoku is the amount of energy a being has stored within their body or soul, whereas Reiatsu is the pressure that a person's Reiryoku exerts. In other words, Reiryoku is potential while Reiatsu is energy in use and can be sensed by other spiritually aware beings. In general, those with high levels of Reiryoku will often have the highest levels of Reiatsu also. A skilled warrior can overcome a person possessing greater Reiryoku by possessing greater Reiatsu - this is achieved by having greater control over their own spiritual energy."
now that we indeed proven that naruto chakra doesn't have anything in common with bleach reishi/reiryoku/reiatsu and thus naruto characthers have no defense agaisnt it , can we please go back to the fight ?
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