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Mew and Mewtwo AP revision

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Aside from the personal argument. Looking at both evidences still I'm siding with Fates a lot more.

1.Far less speculation

2.Clearer evidence

3. Ryan's proposal is still an outlier and one that is far too speculative and a lot of ambiguous/unknown factors are what holds some of it.

So I have to agree with Fate
 
I actually find it funny that a recent Pokémon card has Mewtwo manipulating space and possibly stars. It isn't relevant. I just find it funny.
 
Dark649 said:
I think scaling all the legendaries to a spin off title where your goal is to make Pokémon photos is not reliable, also it's an outlier to all the other feats on his level, which are mostly on the tier 6 range. Colosseum and XD are canon to the non-mega continuity despite being spin-offs, this one is a maybe.
Click to expand...
If this is correct, I also find it unreliable to scale from this game.
 
@Ant. That feat got debunked anyway.

However, there is one thing I'd like to state. It involves Pokémon Cards. According to the manga, "How I Became a Pokémon Card," there's a backstory to all the art the cards. Possibly the moves as well, but definitely the art.

Mewtwo has been shown to have traveled to a faraway constellation, and possibly outside the galaxy.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I'm pretty sure we covered why its not an outlier already.
Click to expand...
Opposition presented a significant number of counter-arguments in regards to why yes, outlier is a valid counter-argument here as well.

Though I'm not discussing the Mew point. The Mewtwo one is the one which is being greatly exaggerated.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Didn't we count Pokemon card material for Arceus or someone else before anyway? If so it should be able to apply here to Mewtwo.
Click to expand...
I don't recall us doing that for Arceus. I recall Alphamon tho ovo jk
 
@Cal The ovo was supposed to be the indication I was joking, tho.

In that case, I sleep. Have nothing against that.
 
If the attacks are legit along with the art though... Then both, Mew and Mewtwo have some new broken abilities. Like Mewtwo passively negating any attack from an unevolved opponent (NLF, I know), and Mew having a De-evolution beam
 
Opposition presented a significant number of counter-arguments in regards to why yes, outlier is a valid counter-argument here as well.

Though I'm not discussing the Mew point. The Mewtwo one is the one which is being greatly exaggerated.

Like what?

And @Cal you still didnt credit me for giving you these links ovo
 
The slight problem with this is that the card might have an exagerated interpretation of the events that really transpired. And without the context, they aren't 100% reliable. (like, how they even saw Mewtwo in another galaxy?)

If they are going to be used, I suggest we use a "possibly". Though that's my opinion of it.

Edit: the moves should be legit. The dratini card has only the move wrap, since it was the only move he did in the story.
 
I don't see what's exaggerated though. That would be like saying Arceus and the CT's dex entrys are exaggerated since the people who canonically write them in-verse dont see universes be made or space-time heartbeats and breathes. But we know they are 100Ôäà reliable and true. This for Mewtwo seemingly looks no different.
 
But we have other examples of it being true with Arceus, not just the pokédex. While the cards we just have the cards themselves.
 
Pokédex Entries are meant to explain the Pokémon's powers / abilities both in-universe and out of universe. They being unreliable would defeat their entire purpose, and they are written by reliable sources in-universe.

This is like ignoring the SMT Demon Compendium. We've never seen Mada swallow a universe and all the Deva in Megaten, but we know he can / has done it because of the Demon Compendium entry.
 
@Matt

Not talking about the pokédex tho'. Is just a drawing on a card. We know nothing about what truly happened, and could just be an artist interpretion of the event. Based solely on the drawing we could literally come up with almost any event explaining it, and not one could be said is wrong since we don't have the story behind, only the drawing itself.
 
Just from this card, would you say it is a Charmeleon from a kid that wanted to join team rocket and accidentally discovered their secret way to force a pokémon evolution while battling some beedrill? Because that's the story behind it.


Dark Charmeleon 32 82 Team Rocket
 
Well again, pokemon is a Multiverse and having a unique specific back story on a pokemon shouldn't mean much of anything. Plus, where does that back story come from? I don't see if written on the card.
 
Chapter 2 from how i became a pokémon card.

Hitoshi22


Plus, just because it's a multiverse we can't say anything about a vague thing and apply it.
 
The deoxys feat is neat but from what I can tell there's no material objects to scale from. But it does prove that some legendaries do have dimension creation.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Like what?
Click to expand...
I see no reason for me to quote stuff that has already been discussed way up there in this same thread. 90% of the people involved agreed that this is still a massive outlier.
 
It's almost like Ignis in KoF creating a Galaxy out of nowhere in his Disintegrational Universe attack and then blowing it up along with those inside it. IIRC, the description of his power also says "he draws power from the Milky Way" or something when literally everyone around is tons of times weaker than that. Furthermore, what Lephyr said in regards to the cards also makes sense.
 
Because of it being based off illogical faulty reasoning nonetheless when Mew and Mewtwos feats are casual and they are only put where they are now through scaling.
 
@Dark

It's to show dimension Creation feats in pokemon aren't uncommon really, not for tiering purposes.

@Ever

If alot of pokemon scale then they scale. I don't see why them scaling makes this questionable.
 
@Professor The current scalling makes a lot more sense and Mew's feat alone will have a hard time going over all the other situations that indicate the current levels, as opposed to the fact that they don't indicate anything close to the levels suggested here.

As for Mewtwo's "feat", that was debunked. Same goes for the thing with Mew creating a bunch of stuff (see Azathoth's reply)

The one feat left here that may be legit is the one from Mew in that manga, which is precisely why I'm not discussing a thing in regards to that.
 
Not everyone has agreed to whether or not the lights in Shadow Mewtwo's dimension are stars and even then, the background clearly shows us a nebula so that has to count for some form of an upgrade.

Not to mention there's still the discussion on making a profile for Mewtwo like Darkrai's, which would bump him to Low 2-C via Mystery Dungeon.
 
"Not everyone has agreed"

Those things don't behave like stars even in the slightest, and not any semblance of cloud you see in a sky equals a nebula. Agreeing to something that is debatable is one thing. Not agreeing to evidence does not matter. Against facts, no arguments.

At this point I'm almost making a gif of the video because anyone can see those things going up and disappearing. Sorry for sounding like a broken record here: But stars do not move up nor do they disappear out of nowhere. This globes of light/glow effect is seen in a lot of places in media where there are crystals.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Not to mention there's still the discussion on making a profile for Mewtwo like Darkrai's, which would bump him to Low 2-C via Mystery Dungeon.
Click to expand...
Literally every bosses after Primal Dialga are Low 2-C, including Wigglytuff and the entire guild, which includes a Bidoof, Diglett and a Corpish, so i'm not sure we should upgrade them basing on that.
 
The Mewtwo feat equals me posting this and saying Ouma Mana created through this feat a Nebula and a bunch of stars in the background.

Screenshot-1 12 2012-6 41 16-pm
 
1) simply stating "it clearly moved" is not evidence. Considering the fact that A) the aura moved to the position where the stars were. Meaning the evidence isn't there and B) the camera angle changes within the time frame of the video meaning the stars *LOOK* like they've moved but in actuality it's only being covered by rocks. I'll give 2 examples.

(aura) Lets say you have a train track. You're on one side of it and a rock is on the other side. The train comes by. Now you can't see the rock due to the train being in the way. Did the rock move? Probably not as we can't see the rock as something is blocking the sight. To assume the rock moved because we can't see it is illogical.

(Camera angle) Lets say you're in the middle of the desert. It's night. You look up into the sky and see hundreds of stars. Now, let's say you were magically teleported to New York City. Obviously you wouldn't see as many stars as you did in the desert due to the buildings being in the way.

How does it contradict Mewtwos stats? We've never seen shadow Mewtwo before. What contradicts this feat statistically from this Mewtwo?

Do you know how a nebula works? A nebula is the "birth place" of stars and planetary systems. And we so happen to see stars around these nebula.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.universetoday.com/61103/what-is-a-nebula/amp/

Stars disappear from point of view. As shown here in the game. But the location of stars don't change once again, as shown in the game.
 
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