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Mew and Mewtwo AP revision
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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- mew (pokémon) mewtwo pokémon
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Also, do the scans not show nebula? Do the scans not show the aura moving in front of the stars? In fact pictures are easier to showcase objects and movement as it's easier to compare and having a video on play makes it harder to interpret an object as you have less of a time frame to do so.
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For one, why are you bringing other verses into this and saying I can upgrade them based off [insert here] ? If they are upgradeable then go ahead and upgrade them and I thought we weren't supposed to do that anyway
Secondly, yes there is. It's in one of the scans Ryan posted above. Seems very very much like a nebula to me but I'll wait and see what others say about it as I haven't seen their inupt on it.
Third, if they don't beheave like real stars then what's stopping us from saying they are artificial ones? Seems much more logical than "floating glowing orbs"
@Dark
If they are legitimately Low 2-C then I don't see the issue. It's not like any of those pokemon would be remotely close to that outside MD they'd get their own profiles vastly different from their other incarnations. In the last MD post there was a discussion on making individual pages for the MD protagonists since they'd be legitimately tier 2 unlike their main canon counterparts but it never continued forward.
Secondly, yes there is. It's in one of the scans Ryan posted above. Seems very very much like a nebula to me but I'll wait and see what others say about it as I haven't seen their inupt on it.
Third, if they don't beheave like real stars then what's stopping us from saying they are artificial ones? Seems much more logical than "floating glowing orbs"
@Dark
If they are legitimately Low 2-C then I don't see the issue. It's not like any of those pokemon would be remotely close to that outside MD they'd get their own profiles vastly different from their other incarnations. In the last MD post there was a discussion on making individual pages for the MD protagonists since they'd be legitimately tier 2 unlike their main canon counterparts but it never continued forward.
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1. When they actually moved and you can see it by simply watching the video? Sorry, but Yes, it is.Ryandswagger said:
2. Head. Canon. You're making up tons of unlikely assumptions to reach that conclusion against the obvious one. And you literally can't prove it other than by saying "I think x or y" happened when there's literally nothing suggesting that.
3. So I'm assuming you do believe they disappear in less than 20 seconds after floating up. That's wrong on a hundred levels.
4. Read the discussion above as for why it contradicts. I won't be quoting the whole conversation when at this point those involved should have logically read it.
5. "Do you know how a nebula works?" ...So this is what your arguments are devolving to.┬▓ As a matter of fact, yes I do. But if you believe that is anything close to a nebula, and that stars will float up and disappear as well in the sky or in a nebula in less than 20 seconds, you should really ask that to yourself.
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Also, that's pretty funny. Before you said you weren't calling it a nebula and that I was strawmanning. Now you say that is a nebula over and over. Something's so amiss.
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1. Completely missing the point. Which is that both of them look like something that they are not at all (in a still scan). Both are illegitimate and both have nothing to do with the character's current tiering and their displayed feat.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
2. So any cloud in the sky equals a Nebula despite lack of stars in it? Fascinating.
3. Artificial stars that don't behave like stars at all while floating up and disappearing after a few secs. Instead of the way more obvious light globes/will o wisp effect. More headcanon, I see.
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@Fate
1) You've ignored a lot of what I said. The examples remain unrefuted and the points as well. You need to prove that A) The aura did not move or that the stars did move. B) the camera angle change wasn't sufficient enough to warrant a change in appearance of where the stars were.
2) calling it headcanon is not a proper refute. All that's been said is supported by screenshots. You are assuming that the camera angle isn't sufficient enough or the aura didn't cover the stars. Debunk my evidence I've presented.
3) quote me where I said or implied that. As this whole time I've already explained camera angle changes which you've ignored.
4) I've read the discussion. Not once did I see "shadow couldn't do X feat so therefore Y feat is an outlier".
5) You're claiming nebula isn't sufficient evidence. I'm questioning wether you do know how they work. Simple enough.
Prove that's not a nebula. You see why would I ask myself that when stars haven't disappeared in unnatural ways? Point of view has always been a natural thing.
6) nah. I did not repeat my self. The aura is clearly refrencing the covering of stars in the link you sent. The nebula is referring to the screenshot I sent a while ago that gave a comparison between a real nebula and the nebula shown in game. Once again misrepresenting what I said.
1) You've ignored a lot of what I said. The examples remain unrefuted and the points as well. You need to prove that A) The aura did not move or that the stars did move. B) the camera angle change wasn't sufficient enough to warrant a change in appearance of where the stars were.
2) calling it headcanon is not a proper refute. All that's been said is supported by screenshots. You are assuming that the camera angle isn't sufficient enough or the aura didn't cover the stars. Debunk my evidence I've presented.
3) quote me where I said or implied that. As this whole time I've already explained camera angle changes which you've ignored.
4) I've read the discussion. Not once did I see "shadow couldn't do X feat so therefore Y feat is an outlier".
5) You're claiming nebula isn't sufficient evidence. I'm questioning wether you do know how they work. Simple enough.
Prove that's not a nebula. You see why would I ask myself that when stars haven't disappeared in unnatural ways? Point of view has always been a natural thing.
6) nah. I did not repeat my self. The aura is clearly refrencing the covering of stars in the link you sent. The nebula is referring to the screenshot I sent a while ago that gave a comparison between a real nebula and the nebula shown in game. Once again misrepresenting what I said.
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1. The points I ignored were moot simply because they rely on massive headcanon and unlikely assumptions on your end. I don't need to answer to that.Ryandswagger said:
2. It is because the source itself contradicts what you're saying. And like I previously mentioned, the still screenshots you insist on posting do not show the behavior not typical of stars that anyone can see going from the video. So yes, I can and will stand by the fact that your argument relies on massive headcanon.
3. It's literally the only way your argument stands. Otherwise it falls apart by itself because there's nothing supporting it in the video.
4. Except all those times people said this scales to a lot of people. And that it would be an outlier for Mewtwo even if it was actually a feat. Which it isn't. Real talk: How did you let that one pass? Shadow Mewtwo still goes on Mewtwo's profile.
5. "Prove that's not a nebula."Again, burden of proof fallacy. Burden of proof is on you to prove that is a nebula when it doesn't work like a nebula at all by virtue of its so called "stars" going up and disappearing out of nowhere in less than 20 secs. Not on me. Nebulas aren't utterly devoid of stars. And stop this whole "camera angle changed'. Because that's also headcanon on your end. I rewatched the video and the camera does not change view at all.
6. So this is what your arguments are devolving to.┬│
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Note: Going to point here I'm referring to the specified timeframe where the stars go up and disappear, before anyone mentions an entirely irrelevant point in it and says that "Yes, it did."FateAlbane said:
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This thread is a mess.
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Then i will resume what is proposed:
1) A Card Manga Mew key for the star creation feat if legit, which is from at least High 4-C.
2) Shadow Mewtwo possible upgrade from his dimension creation.
3) Low 2-C Key scaling from all Post Primal Dialga Bosses [They are the Protagonists, All the Guilld, Froslass, Gyarados, Regis, Team Charm, Muk, Trio Birds, Trio Beasts, Eons, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Heatran, Giratina, Mew, Mewtwo, Jirachi, Deoxys and Gabite. but i do not think it should not scale to everyone.
1) A Card Manga Mew key for the star creation feat if legit, which is from at least High 4-C.
2) Shadow Mewtwo possible upgrade from his dimension creation.
3) Low 2-C Key scaling from all Post Primal Dialga Bosses [They are the Protagonists, All the Guilld, Froslass, Gyarados, Regis, Team Charm, Muk, Trio Birds, Trio Beasts, Eons, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Heatran, Giratina, Mew, Mewtwo, Jirachi, Deoxys and Gabite. but i do not think it should not scale to everyone.
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@Matt Indeed. I'll refrain from keeping up this particular branch of the discussion to avoid the possibility of making matters worse.
Now being honest: Out of everyone involved, I've seen that most people seem to be against this. Either because outlier, scalling or because some of the feats are dubious or debunked. Or a combination of the three.
Now being honest: Out of everyone involved, I've seen that most people seem to be against this. Either because outlier, scalling or because some of the feats are dubious or debunked. Or a combination of the three.
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@Dark
Gardevoir's black hole is not at all like a real black hole.
Gardevoir's black hole is not at all like a real black hole.
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Final word from me on this matter: Not even the OP (Cal) claimed that Mewtwo's dimension is 4-A or that those things are stars. He said himself that Mew's feat is the one that matters in his book.
While Azzy debunked the snap feat here: "Going to point out that the Pokemon Snap feat isn't even a feat. Professor Oak states that the constellations are natural and can be seen over the island, and then says that Mew must have created the signs (which are the things you photograph in the courses, not the constellations) as a hint to its location."
Therefore, going from what was discussed so far, my final position is that I am against everything here due to the previously discussed matters of outlier, scalling and the feats being dubious and outright debunked from my point of view - with the exception of the Mew feat in the manga, to which I'm Neutral.
While Azzy debunked the snap feat here: "Going to point out that the Pokemon Snap feat isn't even a feat. Professor Oak states that the constellations are natural and can be seen over the island, and then says that Mew must have created the signs (which are the things you photograph in the courses, not the constellations) as a hint to its location."
Therefore, going from what was discussed so far, my final position is that I am against everything here due to the previously discussed matters of outlier, scalling and the feats being dubious and outright debunked from my point of view - with the exception of the Mew feat in the manga, to which I'm Neutral.
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I have to disagree with the proposals 2 and 3.
At first I believed in the possibility of stars in the dimension of Mewtwo, but now I think it is too doubtful for the reasons explained above, although at least I think Mewtwo can get Spatial Manipulation and Matter Manipulation because of the creation of that dimension.
At first I believed in the possibility of stars in the dimension of Mewtwo, but now I think it is too doubtful for the reasons explained above, although at least I think Mewtwo can get Spatial Manipulation and Matter Manipulation because of the creation of that dimension.
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@Fate
1) That's not how these things work. I do not get to pick and choose what points I refute because I view them as wrong or head canon. If that's the case I would've never even bothered to respond. I view this as a yield as you can't seem to refute them.
2) no the screenshots support it. There being a nebula is already shown. The aura covering the stars which you keep on ignoring is shown. And the camera angle differences (which is a pic you actually sent) is shown. What screenshots go against my points?
3) Laughable. So let's say that I was wrong. That doesn't mean I'm suggesting what you are saying. IF I was wrong I would only be using wrong reasoning not what you are saying. Again a strawman.
4) Hold up. A) you're using a ad populum as proof of your argument. B) You're getting Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (With primal Dialga) confused with Pokken Tournament (Shadow Mewtwo). 2 very different games with different characters.
5) I've already provided the proof. I sent comparison images between a real nebula and a nebula in game. Looks exactly the same. Thus is a nebula. I've already provided proof. You have yet to (properly) refute my proof. Debunk it. I've been waiting for a while now. And yes the angles changed. In fact I overlapped the 2 images you sent to prove this.
1) That's not how these things work. I do not get to pick and choose what points I refute because I view them as wrong or head canon. If that's the case I would've never even bothered to respond. I view this as a yield as you can't seem to refute them.
2) no the screenshots support it. There being a nebula is already shown. The aura covering the stars which you keep on ignoring is shown. And the camera angle differences (which is a pic you actually sent) is shown. What screenshots go against my points?
3) Laughable. So let's say that I was wrong. That doesn't mean I'm suggesting what you are saying. IF I was wrong I would only be using wrong reasoning not what you are saying. Again a strawman.
4) Hold up. A) you're using a ad populum as proof of your argument. B) You're getting Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (With primal Dialga) confused with Pokken Tournament (Shadow Mewtwo). 2 very different games with different characters.
5) I've already provided the proof. I sent comparison images between a real nebula and a nebula in game. Looks exactly the same. Thus is a nebula. I've already provided proof. You have yet to (properly) refute my proof. Debunk it. I've been waiting for a while now. And yes the angles changed. In fact I overlapped the 2 images you sent to prove this.
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@Fate
For one, stop putting words in my mouth and shouting "headcanon" every 5 seconds. I never said they were artificial stars I was asking if it would be logical to CALL them that instead of just floating glowing orbs. No amount of headcanon was in my reply so just because you have different views on the matter doesnt mean you can say this.
Second, I hardly see how that is just a "cloud". It's far away in the background of the space. Comparing it to other Nebula and it looks very very much like one.
For one, stop putting words in my mouth and shouting "headcanon" every 5 seconds. I never said they were artificial stars I was asking if it would be logical to CALL them that instead of just floating glowing orbs. No amount of headcanon was in my reply so just because you have different views on the matter doesnt mean you can say this.
Second, I hardly see how that is just a "cloud". It's far away in the background of the space. Comparing it to other Nebula and it looks very very much like one.
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^^^^^ Extremely agreed with the whole head canon thing.
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@Kal
Well, it is observed how Mewtwo creates from nothing the scenary which is clearly composed of matter so Matter Manipulation seems feasible...
Mewtwo could also have Energy Absorption because he's dedicated throughout Pokken's history to absorb all of Synergy Power:
Well, it is observed how Mewtwo creates from nothing the scenary which is clearly composed of matter so Matter Manipulation seems feasible...
Mewtwo could also have Energy Absorption because he's dedicated throughout Pokken's history to absorb all of Synergy Power:
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@Professor and Ryan >>> Both skipped the part where I told Matt I wouldn't be keeping up the discussion for the sake of the thread and stated my final position on the matter.
Nice.
Nice.
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Nice
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Doesn't mean we're not allowed to respond. I saw your comment to be wrong so I refuted it. Regardless wether you refute it or not I don't care. I just want people to see what's been said.
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The point is that you're replying to an argument that endlessly went in circles between the two of us just to have some final sort of final word. I could totally do the same and reply to both you and professor right now and we would be back to step 1. At this point it's senseless/pointless discussion.
Others can see if they agree with what either of us said but replying to me at this point is silly because my position is final. And I stated the going in circles part like, long ago.
Others can see if they agree with what either of us said but replying to me at this point is silly because my position is final. And I stated the going in circles part like, long ago.
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TL
R We will never agree on this, so drop it and leave it to others to see which side they believe makes more sense.
R We will never agree on this, so drop it and leave it to others to see which side they believe makes more sense.
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- Thread starter
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This is making me look bad. Like, really bad. Please just drop the Shadow Mewtwo feat altogether and focus on what I'm trying to keep relevant?
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I had the final word yes. But the reason I responded wasn't for that as I've already explained.
If you truly think this discussion was a nuisance to the thread then why did you make a even more irrelevant conversation? Going off of your previous words you shouldn't respond to this.
If you truly think this discussion was a nuisance to the thread then why did you make a even more irrelevant conversation? Going off of your previous words you shouldn't respond to this.
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I'm sorry, Cal ;_;
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I was explaining to you why that branch of the discussion had to be ended and why these replies were pointless. No more, no less. The next point you make in regards to this, I'll give you an aloof "Sure" as an answer.Ryandswagger said:
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Here's Mewtwo shown being by a constellation. He had to have traveled there in a short time span, no matter what the story would be.
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Don't get upset Cal. I have done stuff on this site that is much more ambitious than what you are doing . In fact, i am doing one right now as we speak, but i am not ready to present it yet. It's Franklin Richards and Marvel related, something so ambitious that i never bothered to even consider it until now.
Off-Topic . Just trying to say Cal isn' the only one with such ambitions . As for the upgrade in question, I am very neutral. Is there any tier 4 feat that for those who scale to Mewtwo ?
Off-Topic . Just trying to say Cal isn' the only one with such ambitions . As for the upgrade in question, I am very neutral. Is there any tier 4 feat that for those who scale to Mewtwo ?
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Literally everyone sans Yveltal/Xerneas who scale to Mewtwo are featless. Their only tiering comes from fighting Mewtwo or someone who fought Mewtwo. In fact, the only one who hasn't (that's not Yveltal or Xerneas) is Darkrai, who has tier 2 feats.
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Isn't Darkrai technically a species?
Off topic, but wanted to clarify.
Off topic, but wanted to clarify.
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Deoxys and Mega Rayquaza are featless now?
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I mean, technically. But there's like, 3 in existence.
Azzy, how do you feel about the speed thing, as Mewtwo has been shown to have traveled near constellations or out of the galaxy in card artwork, and the artwork has been confirmed to have stories behind them.
Azzy, how do you feel about the speed thing, as Mewtwo has been shown to have traveled near constellations or out of the galaxy in card artwork, and the artwork has been confirmed to have stories behind them.
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Yes. Deoxys is featless. Mega Rayquaza has his meteor bust, but said meteor was Deoxys. Plus, they're currently scaled to being above Groudon and Kyogre, who aren't included in this.
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