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Zeus is the top dog because he is old and wise, not because he's the most powerful. Thor states this.

This is also important since Thor's quote doesn't make sense regarding the Celestials as well

Gods have timespans on their life that are measured in "just" thousands of years. Odin directly says this and he died of old age. The Celestials there would have to be younger than Zeus for that quote to make sense and they're likely thousands of times older since we get this from Arishem



I wonder if it was because he couldn't fight a Celestial.
Yet he was mentioned for a team to fight gorr and his weapon was still relevant agianst the god butcher on top of being the highest authoritative power

pretty sure that was Loki that said that and he was being sarcastic besides this only applies to Asgardians since celestials(which are gods)

gee I wonder if there’s a statment that says otherwise

I probably said that wrong and that's my bad I'm saying I don't think we need a middle ground because the middle grounds are less accurate than either the 5-A scaling or the 3-C scaling which have more basis than the other forms of scaling we could possibly. Maybe we are over complicating the 3-C but the 5-A does seem like the most simple option given its basis on a scaling chain we already recognize with the egyptian gods instead of one with celestials though that one is simple as well
Oh ok, but the 3-c option should be fine
 
pretty sure that was Loki that said that and he was being sarcastic besides this only applies to Asgardians since celestials(which are gods)
Odin at most died after living for about 10,000 to 20,000 years. Since far younger than the Celestials 1 Billion+ year range. The quote doesn't work with Zeus, since he can't be the Oldest and Wisest when the Celestials are much older, unless they just aren't considered Gods.
Oh ok, but the 3-c option should be fine
I'm not seeing it at the moment. We should wait to see if anyone actually fights a Celestial first before we scale people to them.
 
Odin at most died after living for about 10,000 to 20,000 years. Since far younger than the Celestials 1 Billion+ year range. The quote doesn't work with Zeus, since he can't be the Oldest and Wisest when the Celestials are much older, unless they just aren't considered Gods.
This. Celestials are probably considered "gods" the same way some people in-universe in DC consider Superman a god for his raw power (though the Celestials feat the description much better). Even then, the Celestials are their own very particular brand of beings with a very specific set of characteristics and very specific circumstances of creation no God has shown in any way in the setting so far so...
 
Odin at most died after living for about 10,000 to 20,000 years. Since far younger than the Celestials 1 Billion+ year range. The quote doesn't work with Zeus, since he can't be the Oldest and Wisest when the Celestials are much older, unless they just aren't considered Gods.

I'm not seeing it at the moment. We should wait to see if anyone actually fights a Celestial first before we scale people to them.
We’re exactly are you getting that from? And agian the thousand year quote comes from a sarcastic Loki so I doubt it’s that valid besides there’s another quote of Odin beating surtur like a half a million years ago so he was clearly much older then what your trying to say. They are considering there in omnipotent city

why do we have to wait for someone else to fight a celestial just to upgrade Thor? Especially when celestials are already 3-c
 
What about this?
Here's the official Disney+ audio description attached to this scene (apologies in advance for the crappy quality):





"Glittering lights rise like fireworks from Frigga's body and spiral into the starry sky where they disperse to become one with the firmament."

The scene shows a new glowing constellation of stars that was not there when Heimdall first looked up.
 
@The_one_you_least_expect I think this is fine for now considering the door isn't being closed and the fact we're acknowledging it for later scaling if we get it and not completely dismissing it I think is a good start at the very least
I got that but there’s no reason not to just do it now. Like why do we have to wait possibly years for a celestial or Thor to so up agian? We’ve had characters make massive jumps in power before and we didn’t have to wait chapters upon chapter or issue upon issue just to be safe(unless it was a clear outlier). Why not just upgrade him now and see what happens later just like ever other character
 
Here's the official Disney+ audio description attached to this scene (apologies in advance for the crappy quality):





"Glittering lights rise like fireworks from Frigga's body and spiral into the starry sky where they disperse to become one with the firmament."

The scene shows a new glowing constellation of stars that was not there when Heimdall first looked up.

That's the 4-B odin feat we've been mentioning it has a calc but it's not entirely relevant to scaling since its ED
 
We’re exactly are you getting that from?
Odin was stated to have ruled Asgard for thousands of years in the Thor novel
For thousands upon thousand of years, he had carried the burden of his crown alone.
Watching him now, as Odin spoke the words his own father had spoken to him thousands of years before, Loki had to admit Thor looked like a king.
Odin's rule has lasted thousands of years, and at various times over the course of his reign, the Allfather must replenish the Odinforce by going into ODINSLEEP.
Even after ruling for tens of thousands of years, it felt like only a day ago that his father had crowned him in a ceremony similar to this one.
quote of Odin beating surtur like a half a million years ago
From Thor in a hyperbolic manner. He even says "I thought my father killed you, like, half a million years ago."

If the Loki statement is invalid, then so is Thor's. Even in Thor's case, 500,000 years is much smaller than 1,000,000,000 years.
hy do we have to wait for someone else to fight a celestial just to upgrade Thor?
Because no one scales to the Celestials. Gorr doesn't and neither does anyone else.

Well besides Infinity Ultron I guess.
 
For what it's worth, Eternals director Chloe Zhao seems to consider Celestials to be gods:

"We asked ourselves from the very beginning – that would affect costume design, production design, everything […] ‘why are they here?’ Is it military? Is it missionary? Y’know, ‘cause everything’s going to look different if it’s military or missionary. So we realized that they were missionaries from the celestials. Y’know, celestials that are gods. So everything does have that kind of holy undertone. We also look at sacred symbols throughout human history, backtracking and thinking ‘maybe because of who they were, they inspired these shapes and these symbols.’"
 
Odin was stated to have ruled Asgard for thousands of years in the Thor novel





From Thor in a hyperbolic manner. He even says "I thought my father killed you, like, half a million years ago."

If the Loki statement is invalid, then so is Thor's. Even in Thor's case, 500,000 years is much smaller than 1,000,000,000 years.

Because no one scales to the Celestials. Gorr doesn't and neither does anyone else.

Well besides Infinity Ultron I guess.
Ok cool is there anything stating Olympians live only a thousand years

my point was there both invalid or equally valid. Thor said odin was much older then you previously were trying to state

Zeus thinks otherwise
 
For what it's worth, Eternals director Chloe Zhao seems to consider Celestials to be gods:

"We asked ourselves from the very beginning – that would affect costume design, production design, everything […] ‘why are they here?’ Is it military? Is it missionary? Y’know, ‘cause everything’s going to look different if it’s military or missionary. So we realized that they were missionaries from the celestials. Y’know, celestials that are gods. So everything does have that kind of holy undertone. We also look at sacred symbols throughout human history, backtracking and thinking ‘maybe because of who they were, they inspired these shapes and these symbols.’"
She says this on camera in front of Kevin Feige (timestamp 3:43). He does not stop or contradict her. Kevin in fact nods in agreement at this instant. Doesn't WoG by default now make Celestials gods?


 
Thor said odin was much older then you previously were trying to state
Thor made a joke, the same one Loki made. If both are valid, then just go with the omniscient source, which implies they're life span is measured in the tens of thousands of years rather than the billions.
Zeus thinks otherwise
Zeus said Gorr can kill Gods, but Zeus also isn't older than the Celestials which means Thor wasn't including them in his statement.

This is going in circles though. I'm for the 5-B+ or 5-A upscaling but against any 3-C rating until we get something more.
 
Thor made a joke, the same one Loki made. If both are valid, then just go with the omniscient source, which implies they're life span is measured in the tens of thousands of years rather than the billions.

Zeus said Gorr can kill Gods, but Zeus also isn't older than the Celestials which means Thor wasn't including them in his statement.

This is going in circles though. I'm for the 5-B+ or 5-A upscaling but against any 3-C rating until we get something more.
Yes and ones a thousand and the other is a hundered thousand and regardless how is this relevant to Olympians exactly?

Zeus feared gorr would kill everyone in omnipotent city. That’s pretty clear cut.

and I’m all for 3-c right now
 
Because 3-C is based on them killing Celestials based on Zeus being afraid that they can kill him, while also ignoring Gorr's plan was just to wish them all to be dead rather than invade and fight them all at once.
Because it is way easier then hunting down ever god. It’s litterly never implied that couldn’t kill them when he was going about his plan
 
Eh then can we just ping the other MCU staff to get their final opinions because this is ginna be circular sincr neither side will agree here or compromise

5-A possibly 4-C versus 3-C
 
Okay, I watched the Endgame fight scenes. There is one moment where they clash however if you look frame-by-frame I believe that Thanos stopped Stormbreaker by hitting its hilt and stopping the blade from hitting him. So the Stormbreaker itself doesn't create scaling issues to my knowledge.
thor-fat-thor.gif
 
I'd say 5-A, possibly 4-C would be more reasonable in this predicament. But make sure this only scales to L&T attendees and no backscaling to Phase 3.
 
@Colonel_Krukov @LordGriffin1000 @Sir_Ovens @GyroNutz @Emirp sumitpo @KLOL506 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, @Propellus @Aguywhodoesthings @KingTempest @M3X 2.0

If you're able, could you weigh in on the proposed scaling. Right now the two sides are "5-A (Upscaling from Moon Knight), possibly/likely 4-C (Gorr moving a star)" or "5-A, possibly/likely 3-C (Scaling to Celestials)"
The former is more sound to me.

Although tbh, I don't like either option but I don't feel like going in depth on that.
 
I'm not having a great time finding a version of the scene that isn't severely edited, but Zeus does say "he could kill us" in regards to Gorr having the Necrosword, so even if Gorr was never planning to directly hunt down and kill every god, Zeus seemed to believe he had the ability to do so.

She says this on camera in front of Kevin Feige (timestamp 3:43). He does not stop or contradict her. Kevin in fact nods in agreement at this instant. Doesn't WoG by default now make Celestials gods?
Yeah, I see little reason why they wouldn't be. Between WoG and their presence in Omnipotence City, which isn't shown to be inhabited by anyone other than gods or their entourages (specifically around the Golden Temple, where "the most powerful creator gods in the universe hang out") they are clearly intended to be classified as gods in the MCU.
 
I don't think anyone is denying them being gods or I haven't gotten that impression since they like blatantly are, thought this was just a scaling arguement
 
I don't think anyone is denying them being gods or I haven't gotten that impression since they like blatantly are, thought this was just a scaling arguement
I think only was qaw to a degree with his werid age argument or whatever
If the Celestials are considered gods as well, scaling to them should fine. Are their any anti feats? Like, do they struggle with the tier 4 stuff?
No,Not from my memory
 
I was checking my sandbox for Love and Thunder Thor and I was just wondering should we merge Thors Post-Awakening and Endgame keys into one since they're both basically the same strength (even though Endgame Thor is a bit stronger), the only difference between the two is that the Endgame key has Mjolnir but even then he shouldn't have "higher" because of it since Mjolnir is only as strong as he is
 
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