Hellbeast
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Wait what
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Mcu Thor and friends upgrade to tier 3
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Can't remember the exact explanation for why, but a sun can be seen seemingly moving at high speeds in the Shadow Realm fight
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Then Thor should scale from its
or not ?
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Yes, that's where the possibly 4-C comes from
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I still think we should include Odin’s feats among the top tier gods. Especially his stars creation feat. Cuz we know at the time he was alive, no one scaled to him. He beat Surtur and Hela, and not even Thanos could challenge him.
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I don’t know why but I really wanted to see Gorr pull a Madara Uchiha on Omnipotence City in the movie.
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That's been all of Phase 4 for me. So much cool shit that could happen just thrown away for a quippy joke, a joke fight, or a shitty attempt at "Subverting Expectations"
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We know that Hela grows stronger on Asgard, which she was kept away from for thousands of years until the events of Ragnarok:
ODIN: Her violent appetites grew beyond my control. I couldn't stop her, so I imprisoned her. Locked her away. She draws her strength from Asgard...and once she gets there, her powers will be limitless.
Heimdall states that Hela grows in power gradually the longer she's on Asgard:
HEIMDALL: She draws her power from Asgard and grows stronger everyday.
Thor also implies that Hela, despite growing in strength, never reached her full power during the events of the movie, and the point of trying to stop her during the final battle was be to ensure she never got the opportunity:
THOR: It won't end there. The longer Hela's on Asgard the more powerful she grows. She'll hunt us down. We need to stop her here and now.
So upgrading Odin shouldn't create any scaling issues, as Hela should only scale at the peak of her power, which she evidently never reached during the events of Ragnarok. Prime Hela and Ragnarok Hela would probably have to be two different keys.
ODIN: Her violent appetites grew beyond my control. I couldn't stop her, so I imprisoned her. Locked her away. She draws her strength from Asgard...and once she gets there, her powers will be limitless.
Heimdall states that Hela grows in power gradually the longer she's on Asgard:
HEIMDALL: She draws her power from Asgard and grows stronger everyday.
Thor also implies that Hela, despite growing in strength, never reached her full power during the events of the movie, and the point of trying to stop her during the final battle was be to ensure she never got the opportunity:
THOR: It won't end there. The longer Hela's on Asgard the more powerful she grows. She'll hunt us down. We need to stop her here and now.
So upgrading Odin shouldn't create any scaling issues, as Hela should only scale at the peak of her power, which she evidently never reached during the events of Ragnarok. Prime Hela and Ragnarok Hela would probably have to be two different keys.
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I actually agree with this. Considering this is the same Hela who got practically one shotted against Prime Surtur and Odin > Prime Surtur.
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- #93
Ok so are we doing 3-c using tier 4 stuff as supporting feats or?
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I think the current consensus is that "At least 5-A, possibly 4-C" is the best option here
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- #95
Why? What’s wrong with tier 3?
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People just mostly don't seem to agree with scaling Thor and co. to Celestials, but Egyptian God scaling is fine
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- #97
Based on what exactly?
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What about this?
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Because he apparently physically pushes the planet for his Low 5-B feat, but the 4-A one is done with hax.
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There was a whole CRT to address that
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- #103
Why not? If Zeus is the strongest then he should scale above celestials
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Low 5B using physical
while 4A is spatial manip ?
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Where are we getting low 5-B from all of a sudden the Konshu's feat was 5-B+ being right off of 5-A who ammit scales to who in turn scales lower than Ra who Zeus scales above
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Celestials aren't Creator Gods and we shouldn't scale anyone to Celestials until we actually see them fight a Celestial.
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- #109
Huh? Omnipotence city is litterly a god only place and since celestials are there then they are considering gods especially creator gods since they make stars and galaxies. And why do we need fights when we already have statments that say what would happen
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When does anyone mention that they can fight a Celestial? Are you talking about Gorr killing Gods? I don't think that's warrant enough to scale when they're beyond the nearest 4-A showing by a factor of 146 million and above the 4-B showing by something like a Quadrillion or a Quintillion times over.
Celestials create galaxies, and stars, we've seen them demolish a planet and one of them even made the big bang. Nothing any other god has done even remotely comes close to their showings. Scaling anyone to them without a goof reason shouldn't be done and I don't see anything from L&T that backs the idea that anyone can fight a Celestial. Especially since Gorr's plan wasn't even to physically go and kill people in Omnipotence City, but to steal Thor's axe so he could wish for Eternity to do so.
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- #111
No by Zeus stating he would
(3:34)
irrelevant, there still considered gods considering they know the way to omnipotent city and only gods know that. I already have in the op. Gorr’s plan is irrelevant power lvl wise considering it was already stated he had the power to kill top tier gods. He probably just did that so he could kill all of them in one fell swoop
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He would have done so by stealing Thor's axe and wishing with Eternity, not by physically going there to kill every god.
The power to kill someone like Zeus or Valkyrie is not the same as killing a Celestial. The power jump is incredibly massive and even with Odin's creation feat, they would still be quadrillions of times higher and hundreds of millions of times higher than the best feat performed by another god. There's nothing warranted for scaling because there's no indication he could fight a Celestial 1 vs 1.
The 5-B/4-C scaling at least has a basis to it, but 3-C is taking a claim and then applying it to someone that is vastly beyond anyone else the claim can apply to while also ignoring Gorr's plan to just wish them all dead rather than fight them.
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Yeah even with Odins 4-B and Konshu's 4-A one is ED and the other is via space manip hax so like those wouldn't work as middle grounds going up to the 3-C and as Qaw said they're infinitesimally lower than the 3-C value we have celestials at
In this case I do think the 5-A just has entirely more concrete basis even if you can argue the celestial arguement
In this case I do think the 5-A just has entirely more concrete basis even if you can argue the celestial arguement
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I'm fine with Tier 5/4 scaling, but 3-C does seem like a bit of a stretch
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This seems good imo
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- #117
It’s litterly stated that he has the power to kill the strongest gods in omnipotence city
It kinda is since Zeus I’d the top dog in omnipotent city. Agian irrelevant, why dose it matter that a weaker god did a less impressive feat then a stronger god. It’s litterly stated other wise
the 3-c already has a basis. I’ve already cited and shown Thor training and getting stronger. Along with Zeus being the top god in omnipotent city and even then it’s already stated he has the power to kill the strongest gods. I wonder why the god butcher would opt for the easer option then spending a crap ton of time trying to find and kill every god when he could just wipe them all out at once
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- #118
Why do we need a middle ground? Thor trained and got stronger simple as that.
I don’t see how when he scaling that says other wise
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I probably said that wrong and that's my bad I'm saying I don't think we need a middle ground because the middle grounds are less accurate than either the 5-A scaling or the 3-C scaling which have more basis than the other forms of scaling we could possibly. Maybe we are over complicating the 3-C but the 5-A does seem like the most simple option given its basis on a scaling chain we already recognize with the egyptian gods instead of one with celestials though that one is simple as well
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Zeus is the top dog because he is old and wise, not because he's the most powerful. Thor states this.
This is also important since Thor's quote doesn't make sense regarding the Celestials as well
Gods have timespans on their life that are measured in "just" thousands of years. Odin directly says this and he died of old age. The Celestials there would have to be younger than Zeus for that quote to make sense and they're likely thousands of times older since we get this from Arishem
Since they aren't Tiamut that means both are over a billion years old, which makes then far older than Zeus which means Thor isn't including them as gods in his statement.
I wonder if it was because he couldn't fight a Celestial.
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