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Mathematics manipulation for Venuzdonoa, Arnos, and Sasha. Maou Gakuin

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Orioreeem said:
It's just a metaphor to represent it being able to do impossible things
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Well i guess your argument is from you belief it's a metaphor where our argument clearly comes from how author intends to show how Venozdonor reason manipulation works.
Produce maximum results in exchange for life. That magic, that reason, was destroyed.
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As @Dread explained Shu literally states 4-1=0 by destroying the reason of operation
Orioreeem said:
Doing impossible things in sense on reason manipulation not mathematic manipulation. Even if both achieve the same effect it's not manipulating mathematics
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"One sword, four self-destruct magic bullets. What about 4-1?"

Sasha's annihilation sword pierces Viridia's chest.

Red blood spurted out.

"The answer is 0"
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"Maximum efficiency or maximum results, no matter how correct the calculations are, just destroy them. My demon king won't allow me that 1+1 doesn't equal 3"
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I guess it doesn't seem like a mathematical explanation. 🗿.
 
I mean, if you have to destroy 4 different magic, you destroy 1 and then there is 0 magic left, and it is even explained that all magic was destroyed because it changed mathematics to make 4-1=0 Real, it is plain Operation Manipulation:
  • Operation Manipulation: By changing the way mathematical operations work real phenomena described through them may have different results. For example by changing the laws so that 1+1=3, it could be made so that if one apple is taken and another one put to it, the resulting amount of apples is three apples. Another application of this is to forcefully apply mathematical operations to reality, for example building the sum of two things making them fuse together.
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ActuallySpaceMan said:
I understand how Venozdonar works, I'm saying this is a very vague statement, it COULD be mathematics Manipulation if it was stated by the narrator, however it was stated by a character, and in this case it was likely explaining how she was doing the impossible, not that she was effecting the actual equation of 4-1.

It's iffy and that's why I said it's vague.
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"One sword, four self-destruct magic bullets. What about 4-1?"

Sasha's annihilation sword pierces Viridia's chest.

Red blood spurted out.

"The answer is 0"
Click to expand...
Produce maximum results in exchange for life. That magic, that reason, was destroyed.
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4 magic bullets — 1 Sword = logically 3

The thing is it's clearly mentioned she destroyed that reason of 4-1=3 and turned it into "0"
 
Orioreeem said:
Doing impossible things in sense on reason manipulation not mathematic manipulation. Even if both achieve the same effect it's not manipulating mathematics
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No, you did not understand how Author want to address us. He clearly wants mathematics to be involved, unless you got another explanation of 4-1 = 0.
But what I am sure is he definitely doesn't want to say affecting multiple things at once is 4-1 = 0. Undoubtedly not. Why would he even go further, and say 1+1 = 3? I will tell you why, he actually wants to say that 4 damn magic destroying by one is equal (look at the bold term, I said EQUAL) 0 magic. It means to make it 4-1=0 real. It fits the operation manipulation explanation perfectly.
 
Orioreeem said:
She just destroyed order(concept) of magic bullet world which has an effect of stat reduction. Once it was destroyed people could fight with their own original power.
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You didn't understand what I said. I was saying layers are not accepted as dimensions. If we consider that layers as dimensional then it's literally Manipulating the dimensions Hierarchy. Well that's a different things.
 
isn't this just an effect of destroying logic or reason and not specifically because he is manipulating mathematics?
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
isn't this just an effect of destroying logic or reason and not specifically because he is manipulating mathematics?
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EldemadeDityjon said:
4 magic bullets — 1 Sword = logically 3

The thing is it's clearly mentioned she destroyed that reason of 4-1=3 and turned it into "0"
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From what I understand this is how the feat was done. Author specifically used same kinda explanation In operation manipulation in Mathematics manipulation page.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
isn't this just an effect of destroying logic or reason and not specifically because he is manipulating mathematics?
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From what I've understood, she's manipulating mathematics by manipulating reason (she destroyed the reason about why 4-1 isn't 0, and thus making 4-1=0)

But it doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed as Math Manip, such as we list Yogiri's Death Manipulation as many different haxes despite all of them being an extension of his Death Manipulation or (without taking other verses) how Venuzdonoa has Causality Manipulation, Resistance to Power Absorption, Immortality Negation, etc. Despite all of those powers being an extension of its "Reason Manipulation"
 
I already dropped my arguments here. I wanted just to address those affecting multiple things at once has no proof at all, and it is literally an assumption.
Alone, that 4-1=0 = affecting multiple things at once is a literally false interpretation, and this is not what the author wanted to address.
 
Also this Chapter. Anos Manipulated reason & gave 127 points for eleonore and 150 points for Zesia. But the thing is 100 is the perfect score. 🗿. However look at this it's clearly defying the logic of mathematics. If the math not affected in abstract level they would have failed the exam for changing and cheating like that. But they literally passed the exam even the score that they recieved exceeded the score which was listed.

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"Anos Voldigoad, what a wonderful thing. A perfect score of 100."

　HM. There was no confirmation for the second question, but was it a hit?

"Misha Necron, this is also excellent, 100 perfect score."

　Misha blinks her eyes.

"Sasha Necron also got a perfect score of 100."

　Sasha gave a dubious look.

"Eleonor Bianca, 127 points."

"what……!?"

　It was Scarlet Monument King Grecilis who raised his voice.

"... Umm, 100 points is the perfect score, but 127 points?"

　Eleonor can't hide his surprise.

"Zesia Bianca, 150 points. Wow."

"... it's my first time to get more than a perfect score..."
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"I should have told you. I didn't cheat. I just destroyed the reasoning that you can't get points just because you made a mistake."

　Even if you dodge the sword, it's easy to get the wrong answer in front of the slashed sword, and even add points.

　Even a blank answer will be reduced to 100 points.

"... oh my..."

　Too much humiliation, Greece distorted his face.

　But either he realized that there was nothing he could do about it, or he did not seek further injustice.
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@Dread This feat literally shows Anos giving extra points and making 127/100 for Eleonore and 150/100 for Zesia which shouldn't be possible in common mathematics logic.

Also the fact the who were participating couldn't do anything about it even though it's pretty much cheating shows he clearly affected the math in there and changed the logic behind that.

Even Anos only got 100 points.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
@Dread This feat literally shows Anos giving extra points and making 127/100 for Eleonore and 150/100 for Zesia which shouldn't be possible in common mathematics logic.

Also the fact the who were participating couldn't do anything about it even though it's pretty much cheating shows he clearly affected the math in there and changed the logic behind that.

Even Anos only got 100 points.
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Ngl we need an explanation page for reason manipulation as many think it is only “reasoning”. The sword is capable of many things.
 
Dread said:
No, don't use head canon claims, mate. Also, the explanation you said above, and the equation does not fit. Please use some basic math.
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Except Anos’s range is making him stop all of them at the same time, it has nothing to do with math
EldemadeDityjon said:
Tell me without telling me you read all the conversation.
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The funny thing is that was what I arrived at from reading the entire thing
 
theultimate5105 said:
Except Anos’srange is making him stop all of them at the same time, it has nothing to do with math
The funny thing is that was what I arrived at from reading the entire thing
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The one who did the feat was Sasha lmao

Anyway, it's plain Mathematic Manipulation:

Sasha destroyed the reason and made 4-1=0 logical. Therefore, after she destroyed one of the 4 self-destruction magic, the number of self-destruction magic active was reduced to 0 (4 self-destruction magic --- 1 self-destruction magic = 0 self-destruction magic), she even says "Maximum efficiency or maximum results, no matter how correct the calculations are, just destroy them. My demon king won't allow me that 1+1 doesn't equal 3"

That's plain Mathematic Manipulation, more specifically, operation manipulation
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
The one who did the feat was Sasha lmao

Anyway, it's plain Mathematic Manipulation:

Sasha destroyed the reason and made 4-1=0 logical. Therefore, after she destroyed one of the 4 self-destruction magic, the number of self-destruction magic active was reduced to 0 (4 self-destruction magic --- 1 self-destruction magic = 0 self-destruction magic), she even says "Maximum efficiency or maximum results, no matter how correct the calculations are, just destroy them. My demon king won't allow me that 1+1 doesn't equal 3"

That's plain Mathematic Manipulation, more specifically, operation manipulation
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
The one who did the feat was Sasha lmao

Anyway, it's plain Mathematic Manipulation:

Sasha destroyed the reason and made 4-1=0 logical. Therefore, after she destroyed one of the 4 self-destruction magic, the number of self-destruction magic active was reduced to 0 (4 self-destruction magic --- 1 self-destruction magic = 0 self-destruction magic), she even says "Maximum efficiency or maximum results, no matter how correct the calculations are, just destroy them. My demon king won't allow me that 1+1 doesn't equal 3"

That's plain Mathematic Manipulation, more specifically, operation manipulation
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Pretty simple and great explanation 👌. Its easy to understand.
 
I don't know if some people have noticed, but to say that what Venuzdonoa did was destroy reason and not math manipulation just makes it more of a proof.

Logic = Reason = Math

I'm not saying they're both on the same level, but since the math has a logical result, it's venuzdonoa destroying reason, Venuzdonoa is destroying reason why 1+1 and 2, and making 1+1 be 3.

And didn't Anos mention that anything that can be rationed (he also mentions numbers in that statement, if I'm not mistaken) are nothing to Venuzdonoa?
 
I mean, it's obvious that Venuzdonoa's doing that by manipulating reason. Like literally every other ability on its profile: Causality Manipulation, Immortality Negation, Resistance to Power Absorption, etc. Yet it has those abilities listed. So she should have mathematics manipulation listed too.
 
deonment said:
Yes, of the magic bullets, the magic bullets are not the equations, which I will once more say are being used as a representation of quantity, how many of something there is, the feat is simply just destroying multiple things at once a feat which it has performed before, by its own profile's recognition, not screwing with mathematical formulas, because that isn't even what the numbers here are meant to represent.
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deonment said:
Not actually, this is a false equivalence, both God-Man and Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo fundamentally changed the underlying principles that defined mathematics, in particular for the former, when the act was performed reality was wholly reconstituted and we could see it being torn apart, but here maths is being used as a measure of quantity rather than the underlying calculations that define reality.
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How many time i must says, sasha destroy the reason/logic of math, and the logic it self is basic of reality that govern and encompasses all things in MGF verse. So sasha destroy the principles of 1+1 is not equal to 3, the principle of calculation or math
 
By the way i agree with Mathematic Manipulation.
JustANormalPerson01 said:
The one who did the feat was Sasha lmao

Anyway, it's plain Mathematic Manipulation:

Sasha destroyed the reason and made 4-1=0 logical. Therefore, after she destroyed one of the 4 self-destruction magic, the number of self-destruction magic active was reduced to 0 (4 self-destruction magic --- 1 self-destruction magic = 0 self-destruction magic), she even says "Maximum efficiency or maximum results, no matter how correct the calculations are, just destroy them. My demon king won't allow me that 1+1 doesn't equal 3"

That's plain Mathematic Manipulation, more specifically, operation manipulation
Click to expand...
This also seems like a good explanation.
 
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