Mathematics manipulation for Venuzdonoa, Arnos, and Sasha. Maou Gakuin

[EldemadeDityjon]

I am not, you are being too literal in your interpretation of the text, math in this context is not an ontological foundation, it is a simple measure. Speed nor distance are not made up of mathematics, that is objectively wrong, they can be described by mathematics, they are not constructed by it.

Everything in the maou Gakuin is abstract concepts. You are ignoring my point.

Once more, you have to PROVE that the maths here relates to anything but quantity, which there isn't as later on it is proven that it does relate to quantity when Venuzdonoa cuts all the gates created by Melheys, even though it did not cut them all.

It doesn't, but that's because it is the context of the OP's first scan, so this changes nothing

No. You are again ignoring the point. Its done by Destroying that reason. Not by manipulating laws and concepts. Reason is an abstract thing. Unless you say it isn't.

No, it doesn't, it's just Venuzdonoa cutting multiple things using only 1 cut again as it did against Melheys as I quoted earlier on

That doesn't debunks anything. Its just backs up number related things doesn't matter.

Good thing then that Venuzdonoa has already been shown to affect multiple things at once with its power at least 2 other times in the story, and so in addition to math here being used in reference to quantity, under Occam's Razor the interpretation used should just be taken as Venuz affecting multiple things at once rather than the interpretation of this somehow affecting some form of abstract or physical mathematics.

Again. Anything which is reasoned with will be destroyed. Venozdonor destroyed the reason. Anyway this is my last Reply. No one seems to be knowledgeable on the verse knows how Reason Manipulation works. LMAO. If null would have here then that would have been better.

“It doesn’t follow reason nor anything number related or things related to distance whether it be magical or conventional. Anything that can be reasoned returns to nothing before this principle destroying sword. It’s useless to think about what it can or can’t do.”

　命と引き換えに最大の成果を生む。その魔法が、その理が、滅ぼされていた。
　It produces the greatest results in exchange for life. That magic, that reason, had been destroyed.

"I'm saying I destroyed the reason of Fate turns for the sake of the world [Beld Rase Femblem]." (Anos)

"...It cannot be destroyed. It's not that it's too late or too early, but that fate is determined before it. Even if you go back to the past before the creation of the world and use your power, the [Cogwheel of Fate] will destroy the [Demon King Garden] before that..." (Eques)

How do you Qualify Concepts of speed without using mathematics?

Everything is done via Destroying the reasons.
I hope you don't say Reason isn't an abstract Concepts.

Abstract nouns are nouns that cannot be seen or touched. They are things like ideas, feelings or emotions.

For example:
love, happiness, excitement, criticism, reason, strength, morning, afternoon, beauty.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Guys, sorry to burst your bubble, but we actually have more than one precedent where we didn't allow MTLs.

Say, the most blatant example is Masada verse.

Also Machine Translations do not work well with most context based languages, like Japanese.

I experienced that with my mother language,Italian. English > Italian machine translations are awful.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Guys, sorry to burst your bubble, but we actually have more than one precedent where we didn't allow MTLs.

Say, the most blatant example is Masada verse.

Also Machine Translations do not work well with most context based languages, like Japanese.

I experienced that with my mother language,Italian. English > Italian machine translations are awful.

Masada they allowed machine translation but it got nuked because people one who used to support the verse didn't wanted it in the wiki.

 

[deonment]

Masada they allowed machine translation

No, it didn't, what are you on

 

[Orioreeem]

If you can get a human translator to translate this then feel free to do so.

 

[deonment]

That would be fine if we allowed MTLs to be the main evidence for a CRT or something like it, that is not the case, site standards need a human translator for most if not all untranslated material that is going to be indexed, it shouldn't be accepted otherwise, especially for high-end things.

 

[Tatsumi504]

After reading through what's been said. I actually agree with @Orioreeem and @deonment. If sasha negged the other bullets by affection mathematics then that's fine but it seems like it just killed the other three without needing to destroy them.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

After reading through what's been said. I actually agree with @Orioreeem and @deonment. If sasha negged the other bullets by affection mathematics then that's fine but it seems like it just killed the other three without needing to destroy them.

The point is she did negged all of them by affecting the reason of numbers. How do you classify mathematics?. Anyway I am done. Looks like Reason manipulation of MGF is just a law manipulation to others who actually haven't read the series. Can't help it. I will wait for second season of anime where people actually takes an interest in the verse and reads the series and understands how reason manipulation works.

I guess this thread can be closed. Well its upto Fixxed.

 

[Orioreeem]

That would be fine if we allowed MTLs to be the main evidence for a CRT or something like it, that is not the case, site standards need a human translator for most if not all untranslated material that is going to be indexed, it shouldn't be accepted otherwise, especially for high-end things.

Now that I recall LDG CRT, this isn't actually the case. Bringing raws so that they can be checked is good enough

 

[WarbleComeBack]

That would be fine if we allowed MTLs to be the main evidence for a CRT or something like it, that is not the case, site standards need a human translator for most if not all untranslated material that is going to be indexed, it shouldn't be accepted otherwise, especially for high-end things.

Time for 25 MG downgrades

 

[Orioreeem]

Time for 25 MG downgrades

Not really, just delete the verse.

 

[deonment]

Now that I recall LDG CRT, this isn't actually the case. Bringing raws so that they can be checked is good enough

Yeah just checked, that is true, that is surprising to me, but since that is indeed the case then yeah unless someone brings up stuff from a human translator that makes the MTL bad then it should be good for now

 

[WarbleComeBack]

I’m Neutral since I’m not sure I understand the requirements for MM. if anyone could help with that, Thanks.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I got a question, what results are made after he made 1+1 = 3?
What are the results he made when he altered the logic 4-1 = 0?

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

• Operation Manipulation: By changing the way mathematical operations work real phenomena described through them may have different results. For example by changing the laws so that 1+1=3, it could be made so that if one apple is taken and another one put to it, the resulting amount of apples is three apples. Another application of this is to forcefully apply mathematical operations to reality, for example building the sum of two things making them fuse together.

Yeah, this is kinda obvious

 

[ImmortalDread]

I agree with operation manipulation, but what is it different from mathematic manipulation?

Yeah, this is kinda obvious

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

It is basically a "Possible Use" in Mathematics Manipulation page

 

[Orioreeem]

I got a question, what results are made after he made 1+1 = 3?
What are the results he made when he altered the logic 4-1 = 0?

1+1 was never made to be 3. Again it's a metaphor

 

[ImmortalDread]

It is basically a "Possible Use" in Mathematics Manipulation page

Oh alright

 

[ImmortalDread]

1+1 was never made to be 3. Again it's a metaphor

What are the results of logic 4-1 = 0?

 

[wwereymy235]

1+1 was never made to be 3. Again it's a metaphor

No, it was to further prove that what she did earlier was operation manipulation. I don’t see how destroying reason would be reality warping either.

 

[ImmortalDread]

No, it was to further prove that what she did earlier was operation manipulation. I don’t see how destroying reason would be reality warping either.

Wait really? Then I agree with CRT.

 

[Orioreeem]

4 magics getting destroyed when Venuzdonoa only destroyed one but again that could be argued to just be Venuzdonoa's ability to affect multiple things at once. There needs to be a proof that it did this because it made 4-1=0 not because of its ability to affect multiple things.

What are the results of logic 4-1 = 0?

 

[Orioreeem]

No, it was to further prove that what she did earlier was operation manipulation. I don’t see how destroying reason would be reality warping either.

Every power on the wiki is a version of reality warping what your point?

 

[wwereymy235]

Every power on the wiki is a version of reality warping what your point?

If so, then wouldn’t mathematicis manipulation also be part of said reality warping?

 

[Orioreeem]

If so, then wouldn’t mathematicis manipulation also be part of said reality warping?

And so would every power on the wiki. We don't give them to characters just because they manipulate reality.

 

[ImmortalDread]

4 magics getting destroyed when Venuzdonoa only destroyed one but again that could be argued to just be Venuzdonoa's ability to affect multiple things at once. There needs to be a proof that it did this because it made 4-1=0 not because of its ability to affect multiple things.

Arguably, since 4-1 = 0 means 4 magics – 1 magic = 0 magic. I have no clue how you interpreted it as affecting multiple things at once in this equation.

 

[Orioreeem]

Arguably, since 4-1 = 0 means 4 magics – 1 magic = 0 magic. I have no clue how you interpreted it as affecting multiple things at once in this equation.

Idk maybe the same way @Pain_to12 inteprets that there aren't infinite timelines in the universe, and the rest of us inteprets that there are?

 

[wwereymy235]

And so would every power on the wiki. We don't give them to characters just because they manipulate reality.

See but the context of the scan is related to operations being manipulated. When Sasha negged all 4 magic bombs, she only needed to destroy one. She said that she destroyed the reason behind having to slash all 4, proven by her saying 4-1=0. Then at the end she clarifies that her Lord wouldn't allow 1+1=3 to further prove that the reality warping used here is operations manipulation.

 

[Orioreeem]

That intepretation is valid yes, but so is mine. That's why I said get some stuff to evalute this.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Idk maybe the same way @Pain_to12 inteprets that there aren't infinite timelines in the universe, and the rest of us inteprets that there are?

So the burden of proof is not on OP, since every one of us has a different interpretation. But I agree with this CRT since the author used numbers to interpret his case.

Because if it was affecting multiple things at once, why would the author use the logic of 1+1 = 3? Makes no sense, effecting multiple things at once would not require an anti-feat such as the “1+1 = 3 statement".

If he wanted really Venz just to destroy 4 magics at once, he could write it differently. But then later he also “1+1 = 3 statement" just to show there is operation manipulation in the case. No clue how you interpreted 4 magic minus one magic as equal 0 magic, it is impossible, therefore it is mathematic manipulation in the case.

 

[deonment]

Arguably, since 4-1 = 0 means 4 magics – 1 magic = 0 magic. I have no clue how you interpreted it as affecting multiple things at once in this equation.

Because the equation is not literal, it is being used to quantify the number of magics there are rather than as I said before, being literal, and in fact, we already have previous cases of reason destruction affecting multiple bodies at once so this isn't out of its capabilities, and so by Occam's razor, we should simply take this as reason destruction doing what it has done before (affect multiple bodies), rather than perform something new (affecting an operation which isn't even entirely literal in this case).

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So the burden of proof is not on OP, since every one of us has a different interpretation. But I agree with this CRT since the author used numbers to interpret his case.

Because if it was affecting multiple things at once, why would the author use the logic of 1+1 = 3? Makes no sense, effecting multiple things at once would not require an anti-feat such as the “1+1 = 3 statement".

If he wanted really Venz just to destroy 4 magics at once, he could write it differently. But then later he also “1+1 = 3 statement" just to show there is operation manipulation in the case. No clue how you interpreted 4 magic minus one magic as equal 0 magic, it is impossible, therefore it is mathematic manipulation in the case.

I like this explanation.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

From what I'm seeing she made it so that cutting one of the four is equivalent to there being zero. It could be argued the 4-1 stuff is just her explaining how she is defying logic/reason, at the same time she could have in that brief moment changes how equations work.

Neutral because of how vague this one scenario is, I would help if there were more instances like it.

 

[Orioreeem]

So the burden of proof is not on OP, since every one of us has a different interpretation. But I agree with this CRT since the author used numbers to interpret his case.

Because if it was affecting multiple things at once, why would the author use the logic of 1+1 = 3? Makes no sense, effecting multiple things at once would not require an anti-feat such as the “1+1 = 3 statement".

If he wanted really Venz just to destroy 4 magics at once, he could write it differently. But then later he also “1+1 = 3 statement" just to show there is operation manipulation in the case. No clue how you interpreted 4 magic minus one magic as equal 0 magic, it is impossible, therefore it is mathematic manipulation in the case.

It's just a metaphor to represent it being able to do impossible things

 

[ImmortalDread]

Because the equation is not literal, it is being used to quantify the number of magics there are rather than as I said before, being literal, and in fact, we already have previous cases of reason destruction affecting multiple bodies at once so this isn't out of its capabilities, and so by Occam's razor, we should simply take this as reason destruction doing what it has done before (affect multiple bodies), rather than perform something new (affecting an operation which isn't even entirely literal in this case).

You gotta explain me that 4 damn magic minus one magic is equal to 0 magic, that makes absolute sense without manipulating operation or reality here. And you mentioned he once did that, did the author also use numbers to interpret that? Also, the equation makes no sense, and it was never meant to effecting multiple things at once.

It's just a metaphor to represent it being able to do impossible things

Exactly, doing impossible things is literally manipulation in this case. Bro affecting multiple things at once is actually a common thing. How is this not manipulation?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

From what I'm seeing she made it so that cutting one of the four is equivalent to there being zero. It could be argued the 4-1 stuff is just her explaining how she is defying logic/reason, at the same time she could have in that brief moment changes how equations work.

Neutral because of how vague this one scenario is, I would help if there were more instances like it.

Actually. Everytime Venozdonor is used author explicitly shows its power by his features to destroy concepts of reason. In this case it's shown by destroying mathematics concepts. Also if you look at the mathematics possible uses its pretty much fits under operation manipulation and probability manipulation.

One more feat was done in the same chapter. Well there is this thing of Deeper layers being higher dimensional ( i mean there was many comparison). Where the fight with was going on she turned that reality into normal reality where shallow layers attacks can reach deeper layers. You can literally compare dimensional manipulation in there. Well wiki don't accept layers as dimensional. What I am saying is how Venozdonor works.

 

[Orioreeem]

Exactly, doing impossible things is literally manipulation in this case. Bro affecting multiple things at once is actually a common thing. How is this not manipulation?

Doing impossible things in sense on reason manipulation not mathematic manipulation. Even if both achieve the same effect it's not manipulating mathematics

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Actually. Everytime Venozdonor is used author explicitly shows its power by his features to destroy concepts of reason. In this case it's shown by destroying mathematics concepts. Also if you look at the mathematics possible uses its pretty much fits under operation manipulation and probability manipulation.

I understand how Venozdonar works, I'm saying this is a very vague statement, it COULD be mathematics Manipulation if it was stated by the narrator, however it was stated by a character, and in this case it was likely explaining how she was doing the impossible, not that she was effecting the actual equation of 4-1.

It's iffy and that's why I said it's vague.

 

[Orioreeem]

Actually. Everytime Venozdonor is used author explicitly shows its power by his features to destroy concepts of reason. In this case it's shown by destroying mathematics concepts. Also if you look at the mathematics possible uses its pretty much fits under operation manipulation and probability manipulation.

One more feat was done in the same chapter. Well there is this thing of Deeper layers being higher dimensional ( i mean there was many comparison). Where the fight with was going on she turned that reality into normal reality where shallow layers attacks can reach deeper layers. You can literally compare dimensional manipulation in there. Well wiki don't accept layers as dimensional. What I am saying is how Venozdonor works.

She just destroyed order(concept) of magic bullet world which has an effect of stat reduction. Once it was destroyed people could fight with their own original power.