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Master Hand and Tabuu downgrades, part 2

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Eficiente

Eficiente

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VS Battles
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Continuation from this thread.

Master Hand

"Created the Smash Bros. universe"

Mostly agreed to be removed.

"and pulled its fighters from other universes"

Same.

"When he is killed, the universe ceases to exist"

Same.

"Treats his versions of Arceus and the Creation Trio [who still have universal statements] as toys"

Still being somewhat discussed.

Tabuu

"Created"

It was always false.

"and embodies the Subspace realm"

Irrelevant.

"which is destroyed when he dies"

Supposedly a tier 2 feat due to the Subspace Gunship being "capable of infinitely rending space" from the universe to his realm.

  • Master Hand creating the stages of the game is being discussed, and is currently rejected.
  • Dialga, Palkia and Arceus feats are being discussed.
  • Apparently how no declaration that give info of characters should be taken seriously is also discussed.
 
"And is currently rejectded"

Boi we directly see him create a stage in Smash 64 what more evidence do you want?
 
Better evidence would be good.

..also I still agree on the 3-B via creating stages part (for now), I'm just informing the matter as well as encouraging others to bring new evidence and stuff.
 
We see him create a stage in 64. He's the source of creation in the Smash Universe. This implies that he created Spear Pillar.
 
That is all we have from the other thread, yes. If anything, you are making me see how vague and unreliable the evidence is. Now I'm sad...
 
The Smashor said:
We see him create a stage in 64. He's the source of creation in the Smash Universe. This implies that he created Spear Pillar.
Click to expand...
That was retconed game ago, also Kep debunked a lot of posts, it would be good if they were in the OP
 
"That was retconed game ago"

1. Grammar please.

2. In what way?

Also both Master Hand and Dialga's Spirits are Aces.
 
No one proposed this before but is there any chance of it being a hyperbole? We saw the thing shoot without infinitely rending nothing.
 
Well, still. Master Hand and Smash!Dialga are at least equals thanks to Spirits. Master Core is considered equal to the likes of Galeen, Tabuu and Dharkon.
 
Since when are Master Core and Tabuu comparable to Galeem and Dharkon? Tabuu was a spirit that was controlled by Galeem.
 
Dude, don't use spirit rankings to determine how strong someone is. By that logic, ******* anyone in Fire Emblem > Dialga, Arceus > Master Hand, Claus > Masked Man, and Absolutely Safe Capsule > Anyone. All of which are obviously incorrect.
 
These are non canon characters. This is the same verse where Olimar can fight Rosalina, Richter and Kirby and win.

Stop using canon characters to downplay a crossover verse.

Also ASC's durability would be stronger than anyone. It's attack is 0, making as strong as a base fighter without spirits.
 
The Smashor said:
These are non canon characters. This is the same verse where Olimar can fight Rosalina, Richter and Kirby and win.
Stop using canon characters to downplay a crossover verse.

Also ASC's durability would be stronger than anyone. It's attack is 0, making as strong as a base fighter without spirits.
Click to expand...
I know that. But if Master Hand created everything, then why are his creations stronger than him? Claus being stronger than Masked Man is horseshit, considering they are one and the same. Also, are you really saying that fighter's only scale to ASC because they both have 0 ATK? By that logic, ******* Goomba's are stronger than Mario.
 
A: I am no longer implying that since this arguement has been "Debunked"

B: There are multiple spirits that are the same person at different points in their lives.

C: I was debunking your arguement that ASC > Master Hand and Dialga. I mean the ASC would have Universal+ Dura but only whatever the heck the fighter's AP is going to be after all this is over when enhancing a fighter.
 
The Smashor said:
A: I am no longer implying that since this arguement has been "Debunked"
B: There are multiple spirits that are the same person at different points in their lives.

C: I was debunking your arguement that ASC > Master Hand and Dialga. I mean the ASC would have Universal+ Dura but only whatever the heck the fighter's AP is going to be after all this is over when enhancing a fighter.
Click to expand...
No. That's not how that works. Just no. Masked Man is Claus, except Masked Man has mastered his PSI, and has robotic transplants and stuff that boosts his power. Yet is somehow weaker than an unamped, untrained version of himself from several years ago? No, that's stupid. Spirit's stats/rankings are just gameplay mechanics. Don't actually use them.
 
The Smashor said:
Boi these are non canon characters they arn't the same
Click to expand...
Yes, I know. But Masked Man is literally just Claus but stronger. This is blatantly made obvious by his trophies refering to it.
 
The Smashor said:
Where? Show me the exact quote.
Click to expand...
DUDE, THERE ARE TROPHIES THAT REFER TO THE EVENTS OF MOTHER 3. Masked Man is LITERALLY just Claus but trained and amped. That's it. Besides, you can't use spirit levels to determine power levels. Does that mean Mario's strength drastically changes depending on his outfit? Of course not. Dry Bowser is a Legend Spirit, and since Dry Bowser and Bowser are one and the same, I guess that means Bowser is stronger than Giga Bowser. In other words, his final smash weakens him. Do you see the problem? Rule of thumb: Don't use stats that involve game mechanics.
 
Once again. Your using canon to try and downplay a crossover. Wii Fit Trainer and Bowser are EQUALS in Smash Bros. Nothing in Smash implies Dry Bowser is the same person as Bowser. Show me the EXACT quote from ANY trophy that proves that in the smashverse Clause is weaker than Masked Man. Because there are no trophies for Claus or Masked Man in any smash bros game. Checkmate.
 
Guys, can we please stop fighting here? Anyway, it's true, please don't get canonicities mixed up; all Smash fighters are comparable to each other in canon. While at the same time, we don't really use statistical numbers to say character A > Character B. But still, Smash fighters are all comparable to other Smash fighters regardless of weather it's Olimar or Shulk, and Spirits are more or less comparable to other spirits.
 
By the way, the spirits are consistent if we're talking about the same verse. Basically, one star are Low-tier, 2 mid tier, 3 too tier and 4 god tier. As long as we consider simply the Smash spirits, they're pretty much giving us a "smash tierlist" of them. Even if this doesn't really change anything.
 
Who said anything about using numbers to rank spirits? I only brought up Tabuu to refute the idea that Galeem is comparable to him. Nothing about numbers.
 
The Smashor said:
Once again. Your using canon to try and downplay a crossover. Wii Fit Trainer and Bowser are EQUALS in Smash Bros. Nothing in Smash implies Dry Bowser is the same person as Bowser. Show me the EXACT quote from ANY trophy that proves that in the smashverse Clause is weaker than Masked Man. Because there are no trophies for Claus or Masked Man in any smash bros game. Checkmate.
Click to expand...
Paper Bowser's trophy in Smash 4 says that Paper Mario defeated him twice. Yet in Ultimate, Paper Bowser is a legend spirit, while Paper Mario is only an ace spirit. Waluigi is an ace spirit, yet Mario Strikers Waluigi is only an advanced spirit. Same with Petey. Pauline's trophy states that she was kidnapped by Donkey Kong and Mario defeated DK, yet a powered up version of Mario is only an advanced spirit, yet DK is a legend spirit. I can keep going.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
By the way, the spirits are consistent if we're talking about the same verse. Basically, one star are Low-tier, 2 mid tier, 3 too tier and 4 god tier. As long as we consider simply the Smash spirits, they're pretty much giving us a "smash tierlist" of them. Even if this doesn't really change anything.
Click to expand...
Yeah, because obviously Mega Lucario is stronger than Groudon, Claus is stronger than Masked Man, and Pauline is stronger than Dimentio.
 
Stronger characters can be defeated by weaker characters. Also Sticker Star Bowser is Legend, regular Paper Bowser is the same level as Paper Mario, ace.
 
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