Massive upgrades for people who can slightly inconvenience Yujiro Hanma

[Schnee_One]

So only Yujiro and Yuichiro for a High 7C.

@Amlad You still need to be that physically strong to swing your swords, scaling him to 6 Kilotons means Yujiro would have one shotted him with any attack, especially in Demon Back

I say Backscale Baki and Musashi to Town Level, Maybe Town Level+

 

[Amlad22]

Musashi is far weaker without his swords. Like, A LOT weaker. He is badly harmed by Retsu's strikes and states himself that he can't beat Hanayama physically. It's because of Musashi's title as the greatest swordsman that he is only that strong with his swords.

 

[Amlad22]

I wouldn't use the logic of, he needs to be that strong to swing his sword in a series like Baki, especially when every feat has him far weaker physically. Yujiro literally KO'd Musashi for a few seconds with a slap so that shows a lot.

 

[Schnee_One]

Musashi also took a punch from him to the face and still kept his grip.

 

[Amlad22]

Yes, he was knocked out cold by that same punch. He's consistently shown as far weaker than the top tiers of the verse and can only harm them with his swords. If characters who are gonna be scaling to Low 7-C like Retsu and Doppo can harm him. I find it ridiculous to say he's even close to Yujiro without his swords.

 

[Drite77]

Didn't Doppo hurted Yujiro? He should be 7-C since 18 Kilotons is like, 3X above baseline

 

[Amlad22]

No completely wrong. Doppo did zero damage to Yujiro and only stunned him. Hence why he will scale directly to the 6 Kilotons feat. He'll be very low end 7-C

 

[Schnee_One]

Anyway, I gave my reasoning on why Yujiro should be High 7C.

Ya'll can figure out the rest

 

[BakiHanma18]

Isn't Musashi just a glass cannon? Meaning he can dish out mad damage with his Niten Ichi-ryu and swords, but gets slapped if the high tiers exhale in his general direction

 

[Schnee_One]

Baki brings a good point.

So how about this.

Yujiro and Yuichiro hate High 7C with DB

EoS Baki is 7C+ with Demon Back, and Miyamoto is 7C all round in base, but 7C+ with his swords in his second Key for being able to damage the skin of DB Yujiro

Any good?

 

[Amlad22]

Yes exactly, Musashi's best feats have him being slightly comparable but still weaker than the 18 Kilotons characters while he's worst feats he's below some of the ones who scale to 6 Kilotons. So I think to be safe, scaling him to 6 Kilotons will do.

 

[Schnee_One]

But his swords scale below Yujiro

How's that?

 

[Amlad22]

Yeah 7-C Base Musashi is good. With one sword he would be 7-C as well but higher (like Base Yujiro) and with both swords I agree with the 7-C+.

 

[Schnee_One]

That's perfect

 

[BakiHanma18]

Awesome, glad we got that sorted out

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody summarise the suggested changes here and the reasons for them?

 

[Drite77]

Every High 8-C will be Low-End 7-C due to doing more damage than the Lightning bolt, some will be + via being way stronger, like Baki with the demon back, and Yujiro and Yuchiro will be High 7-C via the demon back because of the scaling

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. As long as there are calculations supporting it, that should probably be fine,

 

[Antvasima]

What about the earthquake calculation? I think that DMUA mentioned that it had been lowballed.

 

[Schnee_One]

You rejected that yourself a while ago.

 

[Antvasima]

Well he was just talking about the magnitude of the earthquake that was stopped.

 

[Schnee_One]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3217108?useskin=oasis

You said it was too presumptuous

Antron had a problem as well

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that DMUA said that the earthquake is likely of higher magnitude than what we decided to use, and he probably has better judgement than I do about this issue.

 

[BakiHanma18]

If I understand correctly, as of rn, the earthquake was deemed a 6.5 due to the fact that an average EQ in Japan is a 6, and dame of the current party at that event referred to it as a "big one". Is that correct? If so, what does the new calc potentially say?

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask him to comment here again via his message wall if he does not reply.

 

[Amlad22]

My personal view on how the changes should be made.

Below 6 Kilotons:

Prime Doppo- Low 7-C (Produces similar results as the lightning feat on Yujiro with his punches) The reason for Doppo being Low 7-C is because this was done on a weaker Yujiro, multiple years before the lightning feat. He's not a lot weaker, but it still matters hence why I think downscaling works best.

Baki Dou Doppo- Low 7-C (Close to his original power, could slightly harm Musashi)

Post SOO Retsu- Low 7-C (Comparable to Baki Dou Doppo, capable of breaking Musashi's nose)

Post SOO Katsumi- Low 7-C (Comparable to Retsu) 7-C with True Mach Fist (Made Pickle kneel in pain)


Above 6 Kilotons:

Post SOO Hanayama- 7-C (Superior to the lightning feat as he actually made Yujiro bleed)

Post SOO Jack- 7-C (Did far better against Pickle than Retsu or Katsumi and made him use his full power, albeit he was utterly stomped after this)

SOO Base Baki- 7-C (Superior to Jack and Hanayama per statements of Yujiro)

Musashi (Physically)- 7-C (Far weaker without any weapons, was harmed by both Retsu and Doppo and nearly killed by Hanayama)


Above 18 Kilotons:

SOO Demon Back Baki- 7-C (At least 3x stronger than Base)

Oliva- 7-C (Slightly weaker than Baki)

End of SOO Base Baki- 7-C (Far stronger after unlocking his Demon Back, can somewhat harm Base Pickle and matched Nomi)

Base Yujiro- 7-C (Can one shot characters on Oliva's level)

Base Yüichirō- 7-C (Comparable to and possibly stronger than Yujiro)

Kaku Kaioh- 7-C (Comparable to Base Yujiro)

Shibukawa- 7-C with Aiki (Dislocated Oliva's wrist)

Base Pickle- 7-C (Comparable to Base Yujiro)

Musashi (With Swords)- 7-C (Cut into Yujiro's skin and easily defeated Hanayama once using his swords)

Nomi- 7-C (Broke all of Oliva's ribs)


Above 54 Kilotons:

End of SOO Demon Back Baki- At Least 7-C (3x Stronger than before)

Demon Back Yujiro- At Least 7-C possibly High 7-C (Still much stronger than Baki when going all out)

Demon Back Yüichirō- At Least 7-C possibly High 7-C (Should be comparable to and possibly stronger than Yujiro)

Full Power Musashi- At Least 7-C (Comparable to Baki, could harm Yujiro)

Transformed Pickle- At Least 7-C (Overpowered Demon Back Baki At the end of their fight)

 

[Amlad22]

Sorry for the long post but I think this summarizes every change in a quick and easy to understand way

 

[Amlad22]

Also I think Magnitude 6 is fine for the earthquake feat. Not like it's an outlier or anything. Yujiro being able to casually stop a 15 Kilotons earthquake is consistent with him one shotting the 18 Kilotons characters.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. It is consistent.

 

[Amlad22]

I can begin changes as soon as tonight, at this point I think it's fine to start as I highly doubt something wrong will come up with DMUA's calc. The main concern has been the scaling rather than the calc itself.

 

[Schnee_One]

DT disagreed but he hasn't responded

 

[Antvasima]

What did DT disagree with?

 

[Amlad22]

Oh well never mind then lol. Depending on what's wrong we may end up with extremely different results so back to the waiting game.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I gotta be honest: this all seems correct, but I guess we'll see what's wrong

 

[Antvasima]

You can remind DontTalkDT if you wish.

Just remember to briefly describe the issue in the topic of your message, and to tell him that I would appreciate his help.

 

[Amlad22]

I messaged him and he hasn't responded yet. I just didn't realize when I messaged him that he had already disagreed with it

 

[Antvasima]

Which calculation did he disagree with? If the earthquake and lightning feats are comparable, shouldn't we be able to still use one of them for scaling?

 

[Amlad22]

Not exactly. The lightning feat is what's being used to upgrade the lower tiers as it gives us a value of what AP Yujiro can flex off like nothing. The earthquake feat can't really be used for that. If the current lightning feat is not used, I'd leave the lower tiers the way they are with the old lightning calc and only scale the top tiers to the new earthquake calc.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Well, DontTalkDT is one of out most skilled mathematicians, and wrote a lot of our calculations regulations, so if he disagrees with the lightning bolt feat, we probably cannot use it.

 

[Amlad22]

Agreed, I would like him to give his thoughts again before we just throw the calc away though. Is there a better way to contact him outside his message wall?