Massive Source Downgrades (Maou Gakuin)

[Planck69]

Can someone link a summary of the Source's descriptions? I seem to get the gist of what the Source is from the other thread but I'd rather not miss anything.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You should evaluate other thread. This thread is just a mess. Man that was created first.

Can someone link a summary of the Source's descriptions? I seem to get the gist of what the Source is from the other thread but I'd rather not miss anything.

Source is the fire dew itself. Well in the initial arguments it was not explained.

 

[Planck69]

Asks for Source descriptions

"Go to other thread. Oh yeah, and Source is Fire Dew."

 

[Theglassman12]

@Planck69 here’s the explanation.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

"Go to other thread. Oh yeah, and Source is Fire Dew."

And you ignored this great.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/maou-gakuin-source-root-type-1-concept-round-2.150801/#post-5567836

Glass trying to call only staff that he knows on daily basis instead of knowledge staff who has been working on this verse for years like @Elizhaa and @Dereck03

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Can someone link a summary of the Source's descriptions? I seem to get the gist of what the Source is from the other thread but I'd rather not miss anything.

I can list off everything that's been discussed in this thread relating to sources when I get off work (assuming Glass doesn't get to it first).

 

[Theglassman12]

@EldemadeDityjon Good to know you don’t consider Celestial Pegasus, the guy who basically made Anos’ own page to be a knowledgeable member. Also I don’t talk to half of the guys I pinged, and Dereck already knows of this thread so tagging him would be redundant.

 

[Planck69]

@Planck69 here’s the explanation.

Assuming those are all of the relevant quotes regarding the Source, I'm honestly not seeing how it can be anything but a Type 3 concept. It fits the definition to a T;

• Unique to each individual and acts as a personal abstraction that gives them everything.
• Within their beings rather than existing disconnected from reality.
• Destroying it will destroy the individuals in question.

It's unaffected by reincarnation but that in itself is something even regular souls can achieve across fiction. It seemingly exists across past, present and future but frankly considering the former sentence, it's likely just that the sword destroys you across all of your lives via the fact that it's the only constant to all of them.

If there's more missing about Sources specifically then feel free to post it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@EldemadeDityjon Good to know you don’t consider Celestial Pegasus, the guy who basically made Anos’ own page to be a knowledgeable member. Also I don’t talk to half of the guys I pinged, and Dereck already knows of this thread so tagging him would be redundant.

You pinged Planck and tell me how Many MG Downgrade or Upgrade threads he has participated? Also you both has been recently appearing in same thread same time for many CRTs. Too much of coincidence then. My bad then if you don't know Planks on daily basis.

@Elizhaa hasn't even pinged to this thread. You have any idea how many threads for MG he/she has evaluated?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Assuming those are all of the relevant quotes regarding the Source, I'm honestly not seeing how it can be anything but a Type 3 concept. It fits the definition to a T;

• Unique to each individual and acts as a personal abstraction that gives them everything.
• Within their beings rather than existing disconnected from reality.
• Destroying it will destroy the individuals in question.

It's unaffected by reincarnation but that in itself is something even regular souls can achieve across fiction. It seemingly exists across past, present and future but frankly considering the former sentence, it's likely just that the sword destroys you across all of your lives via the fact that it's the only constant to all of them.

If there's more missing about Sources specifically then feel free to post it.

And you ignored this great.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/maou-gakuin-source-root-type-1-concept-round-2.150801/#post-5567836

 

[Planck69]

You pinged Planck and tell me how Many MG Downgrade or Upgrade threads he has participated? Also you both has been recently appearing in same thread same time for many CRTs. Too much of coincidence then. My bad then if you don't know Planks on daily basis.

He does know me and we're friends but so what? It's almost as if a moderately active staff member will be pinged a lot for different threads. Are you seriously thinking regularly pinging staff for threads is a massive conspiracy?

And regarding the MG downgrade threads, I've been in like what, 3? Imma be real with you, no language on Earth has numbers high enough to describe the number of ***** I do not give about Angelo Voldemort one way or the other. I'm just trying to give my best evaluation for a thread I've been called to.

And you ignored this great.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/maou-gakuin-source-root-type-1-concept-round-2.150801/#post-5567836

I'm judging the Source based on its own descriptors and showings but I am aware of that post. And from what I can now gather, the crux of the entire argument is the single comparison statement with Fire Dew. Which seems quite flimsy to me based on the dissonance between Fire Dew's statements and individual Source showings.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'm judging the Source based on its own descriptors and showings but I am aware of that post. And from what I can now gather, the crux of the entire argument is the single comparison statement with Fire Dew. Which seems quite flimsy to me based on the dissonance between Fire Dew's statements and individual Source showings.

Collection of all the sources in the world is what creates the fire dew, on its own the source does not act like the fire dew

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He does know me and we're friends but so what? It's almost as if a moderately active staff member will be pinged a lot for different threads. Are you seriously thinking regularly pinging staff for threads is a massive conspiracy?

And regarding the MG downgrade threads, I've been in like what, 3? Imma be real with you, no language on Earth has numbers high enough to describe the number of ***** I do not give about Angelo Voldemort one way or the other. I'm just trying to give my best evaluation for a thread I've been called to.

Not saying you shouldn't I was pointing out he is not trying to ping the staff who has been constantly active in MG threads. Elizha has been Upto date with all MG threads his/her take is certainly needed.

I'm judging the Source based on its own descriptors and showings but I am aware of that post. And from what I can now gather, the crux of the entire argument is the single comparison statement with Fire Dew. Which seems quite flimsy to me based on the dissonance between Fire Dew's statements and individual Source showings.

It's single buddy there has been multiple statements you can clearly take a look at Misha statement too. Root itself is fire dew. Which is supported by Both novels and keywords.

"Mother's fire dew flow outside the world"

 

[ImmortalDread]

There appears to be a misunderstanding regarding the term of “reality” in the CM page. It should be noted that even CM type 1 can operate on a planetary scale without any issues, and there are no specific range/scale/scope of reality requirements for CM in this regard.

Therefore, the argument regarding “past, present, and future" should be misplaced, as it is misinterpreting the definition of the CM page.

The statement “It governs all reality” simply implies that the object in question governs the concept it represents.

With regard to the topic of this thread, I respectfully disagree with the premise that surviving or regenerating from source destruction, where the source is defined as a fundamental aspect of existence, constitutes mid-godly regeneration. This is my personal perspective on the matter.

Because currently, high-Godly regeneration is the definition of “surviving from one fundamental aspect of existence, body, soul and mind" which fits perfectly in these cases.

 

[Theglassman12]

@ImmortalDread No that’s not what a type 2 concept is, let alone type 1. Governing all reality means that the concept has an effect on reality itself. Changing it means that all aspects of it in reality changes completely. Someone’s personal concept, especially one that doesn’t have the same level of importance as Order does in this series doesn’t qualify for type 2 or type 1 concept.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I never argued for CM glassman and I actually clarified to MG supporters what is “reality” term means. Also, in matter of fact, you repeated what I said.

Governing all reality means that the concept has an effect on reality itself = “It governs all reality” simply implies that the object in question governs the concept it represents.

Like seriously? It suggests that the object or concept has a significant influence or control over all aspects of reality. So, no need to teach me if we both concede on this.

 

[Zencha9]

agree with the thread

 

[Theglassman12]

@ImmortalDread apologies then

 

[ImmortalDread]

There appears to be a misunderstanding regarding the term of “reality” in the CM page. It should be noted that even CM type 1 can operate on a planetary scale without any issues, and there are no specific range/scale/scope of reality requirements for CM in this regard.

Therefore, the argument regarding “past, present, and future" should be misplaced, as it is misinterpreting the definition of the CM page.

The statement “It governs all reality” simply implies that the object in question governs the concept it represents.

With regard to the topic of this thread, I respectfully disagree with the premise that surviving or regenerating from source destruction, where the source is defined as a fundamental aspect of existence, constitutes mid-godly regeneration. This is my personal perspective on the matter.

Because currently, high-Godly regeneration is the definition of “surviving from one fundamental aspect of existence, body, soul and mind" which fits perfectly in these cases.

And to MG supporters:

Additionally, it is imperative for me to clarify my position without exhibiting any biased opinions, solely based on my affiliations.

With regards to the classification of CM type 2, it pertains to the act of Anos destroying the “source,” which results in the annihilation of all sources in existence.

However, it is evident that this event did not transpire in our scenario as the individual is merely removed from existence without any reference to the destruction of the “all source of existence.” Therefore, our scenario can be classified as CM type 3, although it is essential to note that I do not necessarily agree with HGR's perspective.

It is pertinent to mention that the classification of our scenario as CM type 3 aligns with the description provided on the CM page.

The sole justification I am able to advance in favor of categorizing the source as type 2 is its inclusion as a constituent of Fire Dew. Thus, I do not hold any opposition towards this classification.

The sole justification I am able to advance in favor of categorizing the source as type 2 is its inclusion as a constituent of Fire Dew. Thus, I do not hold any opposition towards this classification.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

And to MG supporters:

Additionally, it is imperative for me to clarify my position without exhibiting any biased opinions, solely based on my affiliations.

With regards to the classification of CM type 2, it pertains to the act of Anos destroying the “source,” which results in the annihilation of all sources in existence.

However, it is evident that this event did not transpire in our scenario as the individual is merely removed from existence without any reference to the destruction of the “all source of existence.” Therefore, our scenario can be classified as CM type 3, although it is essential to note that I do not necessarily agree with HGR's perspective.

It is pertinent to mention that the classification of our scenario as CM type 3 aligns with the description provided on the CM page.

The sole justification I am able to advance in favor of categorizing the source as type 2 is its inclusion as a constituent of Fire Dew. Thus, I do not hold any opposition towards this classification.

The sole justification I am able to advance in favor of categorizing the source as type 2 is its inclusion as a constituent of Fire Dew. Thus, I do not hold any opposition towards this classification.

I just want to say 2 things

1. Anos didn't destroyed the source. I don't know where you get that and it didn't just affected future alone by wounding the source in present causes all of future deaths happening to the character at the same time ( anyway this topic is dead i am just correcting your misunderstanding)
2. Fire Dew is type 1 concept not type 2.

Have a Good day.

 

[ImmortalDread]

He did not destroy a source? Brother, in season one, when that bastard was constantly murdering his waifu, did he not just destroyed his source with his own fists?
2- Alright, same, type 1 or type 2 lol

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He did not destroy a source? Brother, in season one, when that bastard was constantly murdering his waifu, did he not just destroyed his source with his own fists?

No that was later after playing with Diego.

His screams were louder than the cries of a dying man.

“Now do you understand? Having your source wounded is an agony worse than death. Condensing every imaginable pain in this world into one would still be incomparable. After all, the deaths of your infinite number of future incarnations are occurring all at once.”

With my fingertip, I applied a light wound to his source.

“Agh, graaaaaagh... Gaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

Tears and saliva dripped down Diego’s face, but he paid them no mind as he screamed like a beast.

2- Alright, same, type 1 or type 2 lol

When you realise even pain agrees with Fire dew as type 1 concept. (No hate pain )

 

[ImmortalDread]

Brother, he literally destroyed it and the bastard is permanently dead.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Brother, he literally destroyed it and the bastard is permanently dead.

He destroyed the source after some times but wounding it alone caused all future death of the characters affecting the character at the present (anyway currently argument has been changed to fire dew).

 

[ImmortalDread]

But this is not even my argument, my argument is he destroyed the source and the individual that is connected to source is the only one who got effected. Thus, type 3 definition.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

But this is not even my argument, my argument is he destroyed the source and the individual are the only one who got effected. Thus, type 3 definition.

Well you can check the type 1 upgrade thread for source. Tastumi Clarified why fire dew = source and fire dew= type 1 concept. This thread is just Stonewalling that. That thread literary has every answers.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Alright but all what you said did not counter what I was purposing, Elde. Concede on this point and we can move on.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Alright but all what you said did not counter what I was purposing, Elde. Concede on this point and we can move on.

Respectively I don't agree with your view. So all I can say is agree to disagree with whatever that Source getting destroyed thing. We can just move on to Fire dew argument.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Wdym you aint agreeing with my view, literally in ANIME he just destroyed it and ONLY the bastard is dead, where else is “view”, it literally happened.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, no I ain't moving unless you concede in this obvious feat, wtf

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Wdym you aint agreeing with my view, literally in ANIME he just destroyed it and ONLY the bastard is dead, where else is “view”, it literally happened.

Novel is more canon than Anime

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Also, no I ain't moving unless you concede in this obvious feat, wtf

Novel is more canon than Anime

 

[ImmortalDread]

Mate, even if novel is “more canon”, the anime literally presented what novel said, WTF. Elde, focus, source is ******* individual's fundamental existence, AND WHEN it is destroyed, it won't destroy any random other source. It literally only cause the individual to true death.

I am not actually arguing over an accessible obvious feat right now?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Mate, even if novel is “more canon”, the anime literally presented what novel said, WTF. Elde, focus, source is ******* individual's fundamental existence, AND WHEN it is destroyed, it won't destroy any random other source. It literally only cause the individual to true death.

I am not actually arguing over an accessible obvious feat right now?

Infinite future incarnation argument has nothing to do with source destruction. Also no anime removes too many contents.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So you think that destroying a source will eventually destroy every source in existence? Is this your current argument?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So you think that destroying a source will eventually destroy every source in existence? Is this your current argument?

I didn't claimed that and Source is fundamental concepts of Existence* you are considering source is concepts of source itself the interpretation is wrong

For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

Read type 2 example

 

[ImmortalDread]

I didn't claimed that and Source is fundamental concepts of Existence*

Individual's fundamental concepts of Existence*

you are considering source is concepts of source itself the interpretation is wrong

No, I am considering that the source is only attached to one individual which described type 3 perfectly.

Read type 2 example

Yes, here is the example

Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself

Now, we are talking about the concept “Source”, when it ever got destroyed or manipulated, did it change all “sources”??????????????????????? No, only the character.

You need to replace “object” with the source since we are giving source CM type 2, which means source is conceptual.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Alucard: Blood in Hellsing is fundamental information and a person's "essence" which is separate from the mind and soul. Still type 3.
Shipgirls: Wisdom Cubes in Azure Lane contain the fundamental information of a Shipgirl's existence as well as their memories, mind, and emotions. Still type 3.

These are due to how Type 2 information is fundamental to their existence and that within this type 2 information exists the type 3 concept.
They are fundamental due to how information types 2 functions and how it is interconnected to the concept.
and like I said in my earlier statement they aren't well elaborated on what their effect is and we just know they exist. their application cannot be type 2 because there is nothing to support it as type 2
These are special Cases and extrapolating the fundamental level of information type 2 to Type 3 concept for being part of said information that is fundamental is a different thing from existing on the same level as information Type 2

Kratos: Souls in GoW are the metaphysical nature of a being and their mind itself. Still type 3.

Literally, Mimir said that soul is composed of all other things but sometimes just one among those things is enough like Luck but it will affect the entire soul as a whole
which then ties again on how This Type 3 concept may or may not be truly fundamental on the object they govern and could possibly survive without those.
The difference here would be that this one is said to be confirmed less fundamental unlike the first two examples where it was just left vague.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Individual's fundamental concepts of Existence*

No, I am considering that the source is only attached to one individual which described type 3 perfectly.

Yes, here is the example

Now, we are talking about the concept “Source”, when it ever got destroyed or manipulated, did it change all “sources”??????????????????????? No, only the character.

You need to replace “object” with the source since we are giving source CM type 2, which means source is conceptual.

Source governs existence of one's existence not that source governs Source.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Source governs existence of one's existence not that source governs Source.

This is why it is not type 2 since it requires the latter to be type 2. The former IS type 3.