MG Upgrade Thread

[Dereck03]

Now that I'm done with my 12 days non-stop working schedule, I shall return to my upgrades threads.​

Previous Anos' profile had.

Limited Void Manipulation & Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Types 2, 3 & Aspect Type 1, 2, and 3 for his source; Anos' source is fused with Graham's nothingness and he is capable of using the latter's nothingness as a "shield" which converts whatever it interacts with into nothingness, to protect himself or to attack. Anos' source is stated to be even emptier than graham's nothingness)

Now the new proposal will be.

Nonexistent Physiology for his source (Nature Type 2; Aspects Type 1, 2, 3 & 4. Anos absorbed and superimposed Graham's nothingness into his own source. As a result of this, Roncruz stated that Anos' source is emptier than nothingness)

Roncruz's statement was translated by wiki translators here.

We have not yet translated the part where he uses Graham's source as a shield but it will be added when it is translated, but the current feat is enough for the moment.

Then another proposal is this.

Non-Physical Interaction (Could grab and absorb Graham's source of nothingness into his own source. Anos' source is continually destroying Graham's nothingness and his further states of nothingness)

---

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As for Venuzdonoa, it previously had.

Nonexistence Erasure (Can erase Graham's nothingness, though the latter could still regenerate it back due to his nature)

As for now, I want to add.

Nonexistence Erasure (Nature Type 2; Aspects Type 1, 2, 3 & 4. Venuzdonoa could destroy Graham's nihility)

-It should be noted that the raws do not say "order of nihility" (just in case to prevent misconceptions).

---

---

And last but not least, Graham.
We previously had.

Existence Erasure & Void Manipulation (Whatever comes in contact with Graham nothingness turns into nothingness)

As for now, I want to add.

Existence Erasure & Void Manipulation (Graham's nothingness can erase targets upon contact, such as how he did so to Anos' hand)

That's all.

Agree. (3,18) Damage3245, GarrixianXD, DarkDragonMedeus, Godsatoshi23, EldemadeDityjon, DemonKing021, Bernkastell, ROZAN-U, Dark_Soul20189 (Everything but NEP 2), HeavenlyVillain2, Saucy_Jackistan24, Dog3352, Oblivion_Of_The_Endless, Neoxxi16, Success0906, Fyodol_Empyrean, YoPercy, Robo432343, wwereymy235, BreezeHM, fandom_29dan.

Disagree. (0,2) Dark_Soul20189 (NEP 2), Echitesu.

Neutral. (0,1) Vietthai96 https://cdn.**********.com/emojis/1100534146318733384.webp?size=96

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Seems straightforward

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Agree with the wank

 

[DemonKing021]

Agree with the thread. Also I have noticed that the official English translation is getting a lot of things wrong.

They really translated Graham's nothingness which is without reason as "Order of Nihility"..

 

[Bernkastelll]

Agree

 

[Dereck03]

Agree with the thread. Also I have noticed that the official English translation is getting a lot of things wrong.

They really translated Graham's nothingness which is without reason as "Order of Nihility"..

In fact it has some errors for minor things, I asked privately to a wiki translator since in the raw the word "order" was never used, he confirmed that in fact order was never used, but the word "reason", it should say

“Venuzdonoa can't keep destroying the reason of his nothingness for eternity.”

But well, it doesn't matter that much.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Well, I personally disagree with being emptier than void being NEP 2. though this is just my personal understanding of the ability.

 

[ROZAN-U]

agree

 

[Dereck03]

Well, I personally disagree with being emptier than void being NEP 2. though this is just my personal understanding of the ability.

Not only that, this nothingness that lacks reason is even more nothing than the concept of nothingness itself. And lacking reason/logic puts it in a physiological state superior to everything in the verse that is linked to reason/logic, so it is not a simple superior nothingness.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Not only that, this nothingness that lacks reason is even more nothing than the concept of nothingness itself. And lacking reason/logic puts it in a physiological state superior to everything in the verse that is linked to reason/logic.

That is not the problem for me, I see NEP 2 as being neither nothingness (0) nor existence (1). That means just being a deeper nothingness is just layered NEP 1 if that exists (I have seen this on some profiles at least).

Again though, this is just how I see the ability.

Though, if you can prove that the "nothingness" is not 0s, then that would be acceptable for me as NEP 2.

I do hope I made my case clear why I personally don't see it as an NEP 2, and instead just see it as Layered NEP 1.

 

[HeavenlyVillain2]

Agree

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Also, specifically disagree with NEP 2.

 

[Dereck03]

That is not the problem for me, I see NEP 2 as being neither nothingness (0) nor existence (1). That means just being a deeper nothingness is just layered NEP 1 if that exists (I have seen this on some profiles at least).

Again though, this is just how I see the ability.

Though, if you can prove that the "nothingness" is not 0s, then that would be acceptable for me as NEP 2.

I do hope I made my case clear why I personally don't see it as an NEP 2, and instead just see it as Layered NEP 1.

Good point, but here there is no layered nothingness as such (yet), since we have in verse, existence (1), nonexistence (0), Graham's source would be categorized as something different from common nonexistence, since this is the concept of nonexistence, which can be neither 0 nor 1 and therefore, Graham's true nothingness that lacks reason is neither 0 nor 1 nor the concept of nonexistence, since everything that has to do with concepts in the verse is linked to reason/logic, lacking this reason/logic makes everything unreasonable, Venuz is the best example of unreasonable walking sword.

And it's not that I say it's NEP just because I want it to be, this was discussed and accepted by DT and other staffs when the standards changed.

 

[HeavenlyVillain2]

Also, specifically disagree with NEP 2.

After Graham became "true nothingness" he said it was even beyond reason.

This means
Previously his NEP wasn't unbound by reason
Which suggests that it was still something that can be bound by logic.

But after he gained his true nothingness, it became beyond reason.
Which once again would suggest that currently Graham is something which is nothing, nothing at all that can't be bounded by anything.

If 0 is non-existence bound by reason and 1 is existence bound by reason, then Graham's nothingness would be none of them.
He would be a unique third state of nothingness beyond conventional nothingness.

And his all the time calling it "true nothingness" only validates it being a greater ontological nothingness state, which is NEP 2.

 

[Saucy_Jackistan24]

Obviously Agree with the thread, although, a question:

Wouldn’t Roncruz’s statement be referring to Graham’s nothingness? It would make sense considering Anos’s source is affiliated with chaotic destruction only and this was way after Anos absorbed Graham inside his source, which would further explain the “emptier than nothingness” that Roncruz was seeing inside his source (which Grahams nothingness deepens to an emptier state each time it is destroyed)

 

[Dereck03]

Wouldn’t Roncruz’s statement be referring to Graham’s nothingness? It would make sense considering Anos’s source is affiliated with chaotic destruction only and this was way after Anos absorbed Graham inside his source, which would further explain the “emptier than nothingness” that Roncruz was seeing inside his source (which Grahams nothingness deepens to an emptier state each time it is destroyed)

It actually refers to the same thing, since in reality both are merged into one through destruction and nothingness, that's why roncruz said that the compatibility between the 2 was very bad.

 

[Saucy_Jackistan24]

It actually refers to the same thing, since in reality both are merged into one through destruction and nothingness, that's why roncruz said that the compatibility between the 2 was very bad.

Ic, so you argue it’s merged

Very well then, count me in for Agree

 

[Dog3352]

So Graham is inside Anos? I bet some MG fan said this is gay in the ncode comments.

Agree with OP

 

[Damage3245]

Seems fine to me.

 

[ROZAN-U]

So Graham is inside Anos? I bet some MG fan said this is gay in the ncode comments.

Agree with OP

"some" would be understatement

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Neoxxi16]

Agree

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm neutral cause that spot is empty

 

[Deleted member 40129]

I agree with the additions.

 

[Fyodol_Empyrean]

Agree with the thread.

Also to address the point dark_souls made,

Graham has three states,

Physical body, existence
Source, non-existentence
True nothingness (the nothing that remains after Graham's non-existent source is destroyed)

This true nothingness is in no way just a deeper nothingness a.k.a layered nep1.
As the true nothingness is an ontologically superior state.

The true nothingness that anos cannot completely destroy as it just keeps deepening could maybe qualify for layered nep2

 

[Echitesu]

Background on G's Origin: Graham's origin is the Void (this is NEP1), which is linked to the True Void. After progressing to Annihilation, Graham returns to a Void form - 0 Shape, Amoral (this 2nd form is NEP2).

That part you guys brought up and claimed was a Negation of NEP2, it's not even negating Graham's original void origin )

In <Demonic Eye of Destruction>, before the one from <WavE-Bodied Probability Manifestation Veneziara> could be erased, a silent blade flashed chaotically.

The wall was cut, the floor was slashed, and my entire body was sliced into pieces.

The moment that the many layers of the powerful <WavE-Bodied Probability Manifestation Veneziara> were destroyed by my Demonic Eye, Graham’s body, pierced by the Destruction Sword, was cut in two, top and bottom.

(yeah that's neg nep2, lol. All it destroyed was the magical ability that Graham was using.)

p/s: a brief overview of <WavE-Bodied Probability Manifestation> Veneziara.

A spell that materializes possibilities. With this magic, contradictory events and actions can coexist. For example, the caster can remain still while a possible version of themselves, a blur, moves to another location. Furthermore, this spell can be activated multiple times, increasing the number of alternative versions of themselves. The contradictory forms of Veneziara can exist simultaneously because they are merely possibilities. With this spell, Anos was able to draw Leviangilma without destroying its origin. He created the possibility of both drawing and not drawing the sword into reality at the same time.

==========================================

On the main topic:

Anos was unable to see, feel, or affect Graham when he returned to his second form, and Graham completely outclassed him.

A voice echoed from behind me.

I couldn't see his form, only the Chaotic Divine Scythe Befenguzdogma was floating there.

As if someone were lifting it.

It's different from the Void from before.

The upper half of his body, which had escaped Venuzdonoa’s blade, faintly faded and turned into Void.

Nothing.

There, where I couldn’t even feel a trace of magical power, he was definitely there.

"The order of this world is that what is destroyed returns to nothing. Before the Destruction Law Sword, all Laws are meaningless, and all things perish. I suppose its effect only lasts until the target is destroyed?"

Only a voice echoed from the surrounding void.

"However, the nothingness after destruction, a void without even law, is my origin’s true form."

Suddenly, I heard Graham's laughter.

"<Nuerienu>"

His lower body, which had been split in two and was scattered, also disappeared, and a complete Void appeared there.

I couldn't see it, smell it, or feel it.

But it's there –

"...Chi..."

The Void of <Nuerienu> gouged into my flank.

No blood even spurted from the hole.

"Let's assume you can destroy me."

A voice echoed from nowhere.

Before I knew it, the blade of the Chaotic Divine Scythe was pointed at my throat.

=========================================

That's the Negation of NEP2? He can't even see him, much less Negate his NEP2

Stop wank.

 

[Echitesu]

Disagree on Anos' NEP2 and Anos' Ability to Touch NEP2 in Maougakuin

Please carefully read the evidence and both the raw and translated versions before making counter-arguments.

1. Anos Cannot Affect the Shapeless Void, Graham's State After His Origin Breaks (NEP2)

Graham's origin is the Void (NEP1).
When Graham's body and origin are destroyed, he progresses to the Shapeless Void state (NEP2).
During the battle with Anos, when Graham was destroyed both in body and origin, he progressed to NEP2. At this point, Anos used his Demonic Eyes but still couldn't see, understand, or feel Graham. Anos could only determine Graham's presence through his voice.

• The voice rang out from behind me
  I couldn't see the halo of my gem, only the Befenguzdogma, the Divine Hunting Scythe, was appearing.
  It seemed like someone was upgrading it
  It was different from the Void before

• His upper body that had escaped Venuzdonoa's blade gradually opened, turning into Void
  Nothing.
  There, where I couldn't feel even a trace of magical power, there was definitely someone out there.
  
  "The order of this world is that what is destroyed will return to Void, before the Sword of Destruction, all Morality became meaningless, all things were destroyed. I guess its effect only works until the target is destroyed?".
  Only a voice echoed from the surrounding space.
  
  "However, the Void after being destroyed, the Void that doesn't even have morality, is the original form of my Origin."

• Suddenly I heard Graham's laughter.
  
  < Nuerienu >
  His lower half, which had been split in half and scattered, also disappeared, and the Void completely appeared there.
  
  I couldn't see him, couldn't smell him, couldn't feel him.
  
  But there he was--
  
  "...Chi..."
  < Nuerienu >'s Void dug deep into my side
  Blood didn't even flow from the hole
  
  "Suppose you could destroy me."
  A voice echoed everywhere.
  Before I knew it, the Chaos God's sickle was pointed at my throat.

Conclusion: This shows that when Graham shifts to the Shapeless Void (NEP2), Anos cannot see, feel, or affect him. Anos can only affect Graham's Void Origin (NEP1).
2. Anos Confirms He Doesn't Have a Void Origin and Can Only Use Graham's Origin as a Shield

During the battle with Anahem, Anos used Graham's Origin to shield his chest from Anahem's Glezami thrust. Anos confirmed that it wasn't his Origin but the Void, and Anahem exclaimed, "Graham."

• With even more force, Anahem pushed Guzelami.
  Even though I coughed up blood, I still grinned.
  
  "...Why... are you laughing... the end of your life... in front of Anahem, your final death is laughing...? Is this a dream..."
  "Hahaha. You're not dreaming, Anahem. You're just an idiot anyway. Take a closer look with your divine eye and look into the abyss."
  I said, trying to provoke him.
  
  "What you're looking at isn't my Root, but the void, right?"
  
  Anahem began, drawing out the withered sword Glezami.
  The tip of the blade was missing. It was as if it had been swallowed by nothingness.
  "Graham's Root"

Conclusion: This shows that Anos merely took Graham’s Void Origin to defend himself. Anos's own Origin is not the Void.
3. The Void is Greater Than All - Roncruz Zeybat's Comment
Roncruz Zeybat made this observation after witnessing the clash between the Void and Destruction Origins inside Anos' body.

• "The <Radpirika Fusion Reincarnation> will soon be complete, but the environment inside your body is nothing less than hellish. Unbelievable destruction is raging, and it even seems like a void that is even more empty than nothing. I have never seen such an aggressive source before, and the compatibility is simply too poor."

Context: Roncruz made this statement while being saved by Anos, who used Fusion Reincarnation. Anos had both his Destruction Origin and Graham’s Void Origin inside him. These two origins constantly conflicted, competing for dominance. Anos’s Destruction Origin was destroying Graham’s Void Origin.


4. Anos Uses Ingall to Resurrect His Origin and Body Against Yzak

In the battle against Yzak, Anos had to use the resurrection spell <Ingall> to restore his body and origin after Yzak tore them apart.

• The blue magical power concentrated on the freezing disaster claws. To ensure it would hit my Origin directly, he didn't dare avoid the possibility of the <Deep Death Bebzud>.
  
  Five claws that tore through the world gleamed.
  
  "Jiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!"
  
  Cutting through skin, tearing flesh, and easily severing my bones, those claws ripped apart my Origin. A vast amount of demon king's blood poured out, yet it was still so powerful that it couldn't be completely eroded.
  
  He not only damaged my Origin but also killed this body instantly.
  
  But--
  
  "Tch."
  
  The calamitous being, hovering in the air, directed a ferocious gaze at me, who had been resurrected by <Resurrection Ingall>.

Conclusion: This shows that Anos had to use a resurrection spell on himself when both his origin and body were destroyed.
Overall Conclusion

Based on the above information, I conclude that:

• Anos' Origin is Destruction, not the Void. He only possesses Graham's Void Origin (NEP1) as a shield.
• Anos did not touch, see, or feel Graham's Shapeless Void (NEP2) state when Graham's origin was broken and reached that form.

 

[YoPercy]

Agree with the OP.

 

[DemonKing021]

That's the Negation of NEP2? He can't even see him, much less Negate his NEP2

Venuzdonoa can in fact continue to destroy Graham's nothingness forever. He stated this after Venuzdonoa destroyed his source of nihility. The time limit was the problem, not the sword's ability.

“If you keep using the power of Venuzdonoa, I will keep perishing. But is that demon sword capable of maintaining its shape forever?

Voldigoad's source of destruction can also destroy Graham's true nothingness infinitely.

“Once I lose my body, my source will approach nothingness. This is just a repeat of before,” a voice echoed through Leaks.
“If you hadn’t taken Jeph hostage, my father would have defeated you,” I said.
“He had not the means to destroy me.”
“No. He would have been able to lead your source to destruction as it neared nihility.”
His laugh echoed in my ears.
“Really now. How so?”
Blood poured from my chest. With the hand holding Graham’s source, I pierced my own chest with Vebzud.
“This is the answer.”
Graham’s source was superimposed over mine as I sent it to the depths of my source.
“Oh, I see. So that’s how it is. Smart thinking... Indeed, he might have been capable of this,” Graham said, realizing what I was implying. “If he took the source of nihility into his own body, Nuelien would reduce the source to nothing. The Voldigoad source of destruction would then continuously destroy my nihility—he was trying to end things for both of us back then.”

“Graham will continue to be destroyed in the depths of this source,” I said to the sword, the only memento of my father. “He will go through endless destruction until his nihility truly becomes nothing.”
Right now his nihility was still deep in my source, facing constant and repeated annihilation.
“Even if I were to perish someday, his nihility would not escape. Father. The Voldigoad source I inherited from you—the source that mother gave her life to bring into this world—will seal that fool in the abyss of hell.”
Eternity didn’t exist in this world; even nothingness itself would perish one day. But if I was wrong, and Graham’s source really could live as nothing forever, then that would mean my destruction would be similarly eternal. In the end, with his nihility deep in the abyss of my source, there was nothing left for him but to face endless destruction.

Disagree on Anos' NEP2 and Anos' Ability to Touch NEP2 in Maougakuin

I am pretty sure being able to interact with his source of nothingness already qualifies for non physical interaction. Sources are already abstract concepts while Graham's nothingness is even more abstract.

Also Venuzdonoa and his source can interact with Graham's true nothingness as shown.

3. The Void is Greater Than All - Roncruz Zeybat's Comment

Is that even relevant? Graham's nothingness and Anos' chaos is merged. Anos can use Graham's nihility freely to shield himself and then start destroying source again. It doesn't contradict Roncruz's statement. When Anos pulls out Graham's true nothingness from his source, it takes the form of his (Graham's) source (NEP 1), so Anos can use it to defend himself. But inside his source, Graham continues to be destroyed and exists as true nothingness.

This shows that Anos had to use a resurrection spell on himself when both his origin and body were destroyed.

One of the strongest characters in the verse, a Chief God in his own world being able to interact with Anos' source isn't an anti feat. We know Venuzdonoa, a god's authority can interact with Graham's true nothingness. It's a feat for Yzak.

 

[ROZAN-U]

this is horrendous translation , and just by seeing conclusion only I can say you entire understanding is distorted due to the translation , I don't think there's is any need to reply to this unless you provide with proper translation.
If you don't know what I am saying then damaging source=/= destroying it so there's no destruction of anos source there, he only resurrected his body with ingall like he did with god of time , ingall doesn't even regenerate source.

snip

 

[Echitesu]

Character feats are shown, but if you ignore them, just focus on the 3 texts (But if you read them, you will ignore the important texts). While this series's texts constantly fight each other, not to mention the information that is retconned in each volume, for example, in volume 3, Anos needed Agronemt to revive the origin and himself, but in volume 13, when fighting Yzak, Anos's body and origin were torn apart by Yzak, but with Ingall, both of these things were revived.

 

[DemonKing021]

Character feats are shown, but if you ignore them, just focus on the 3 texts (But if you read them, you will ignore the important texts). While this series's texts constantly fight each other, not to mention the information that is retconned in each volume, for example, in volume 3, Anos needed Agronemt to revive the origin and himself, but in volume 13, when fighting Yzak, Anos's body and origin were torn apart by Yzak, but with Ingall, both of these things were revived.

Maybe Rozan is right. Reading the wrong translation gave you wrong impression.

Say what you want about this series is really consistent with its previous volumes.

Anos needed Agronemt because it's a sword specifically created to destroy his source. It's not an anti feat for Anos' source but a feat for Evansmana. Later we know that this is because Anos is an almost perfect Lion of Destruction.

White light gathered around Evansmana before bursting out as blinding beams. In the span of a single breath, countless slashes tore apart my body. The first hidden art that could severe fate—Heaven Splitter—drove into me faster than the sword itself. The blade left numerous wounds on my source. The blood of the Demon King could corrupt all attacks, but its one weakness was the holy sword created to destroy the Demon King.

The sword Jerga used to destroy Anos' source was a holy sword similar to Evansmana. So again it's a feat for Evansmana and that holy sword.

Even so, I regenerated in no time at all.
“A source-destroying holy sword—similar to the Sword of Three Races, but lesser in power.”

Ingal can't revive source. Here's a better translation. Yzak didn't destroy his source, just injured it.

The claws that tore the skin, ripped the flesh, and easily cut through the bones, chopped up my source. Although a huge amount of the demon lord’s blood gushed out, the attack was so powerful that the blood could not corrode it. Moreover, the blow not only injured my source, but also killed my physical body for an instant.
However…
- Tch, – Izak, floating in the air, glared at me, who had been resurrected with the help of “Ingal”. – The way you brushed me off with sheer force was quite amusing…
Calamity Flesh landed on all fours like a beast. Just before I took the blow with Calamity Claws, I threw him into the air, throwing him off balance and causing him to miss by a hair.
- ...But your source is much more interesting, – he looked at me with a smile full of wild delight. – Not everyone is able to take the blow of the Calamity Claws, capable of tearing apart deep-sea worlds, and stand with an unperturbed face, – his frosty magical eyes sparkled piercingly, looking into my abyss – the source of destruction. – And are you really the Arzenon Lion of Destruction?

 

[Robo432343]

agree

 

[ROZAN-U]

Character feats are shown, but if you ignore them, just focus on the 3 texts (But if you read them, you will ignore the important texts). While this series's texts constantly fight each other, not to mention the information that is retconned in each volume, for example, in volume 3, Anos needed Agronemt to revive the origin and himself, but in volume 13, when fighting Yzak, Anos's body and origin were torn apart by Yzak, but with Ingall, both of these things were revived.

there's no retcon here , it's just you didn't understand it. Anos needed agronemt only against evansmana and holy sword similar to it cause it is weakness of his source as negates the abilities of source of destruction.
and you ignored what I said source being damaged=/= destroyed , this is clearly shown is volume 3 , where his source was first wounded and then destroyed

so Ingall not working if there is no source still remains a truth , don't try to make retcon to applications of spell with your bad translations

 

[Dereck03]

I wouldn't even bother in addressing Echitesu's argument seeing he's using horrendous translations (most likely MTL, which are banned) and he doesn't even seems to know what he's arguing.

1. Nobody has brought Veneziara so idk why it was mentioned.
2. Nobody brought any form for NEP Negation so idk why it was mentioned.
3. There's mention of even further volumes that includes Yzak, what does Yzak have to do here?. Also they mention that Anos' source was destroyed by Yzak, but in his owns scans it says that only his body was destroyed and his source was damaged, not destroyed, so he used ingall to restore his body, if they are made that argument, they should know that ingall can't restore source, the only spell that can do that is Agronemnt.

As for the rest is the same, anyway I just woke up, I'll update the OP tally.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Read this before. I agree.

 

[wwereymy235]

Read this before. I agree.

I disagree with your agree.

Anyways, I agree with the thread.

 

[BreezeHM]

The Wank looks fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[fandom_29dan]

AGREE 100%