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Massive Source Downgrades (Maou Gakuin)

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We did reach a positive conclusion. Type 2 concepts and type 2 info are going. As no evidence has been provided of HGR, that will go too. If there are any characters who have HGR not reliant on regenerating their sources, now would be the time to list them (or, y'know... just give evidence that sources are harder to regen than type 1/2 concepts).
 
The only part of the thread I’m neutral on is the high godly regen, the rest of it I agree, including the information type 2 since it’s insufficient for it being info hax
Buddy character can think and act with sources which are fundamental concepts which also stores ones Existence via memories which are abstact information which forms the building blocks of one's Existence.

Insufficient hax? What hax ? Why don't you show information type 1 Regenerating someone from soul and mind destruction?
 
@Dog3352 a thread being terminated means it's not rejected tho, second that's a much older thread compared to what I posted, which again the arguments applied over to the concept page as we clearly see.

@ImmortalDread she's only applying stuff that's been accepted.

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara you might need one more staff input on the regen for that to be applied since I'm neutral on the whole thing.
 
a thread being terminated means it's not rejected tho, second that's a much older thread compared to what I posted, which again the arguments applied over to the concept page as we clearly see.
Lmao? See the topic, the description says that it is a continuation of the previous topic, because it was not finished, and the topic in the link of the one I posted is the same one that you posted. Literally said that the topic was not finished, nor fully decided, what I posted and the continuation of what you posted.
The topic you posted started in September 2021, the one I posted not only says in the description itself that it is a continuation of the topic you posted, it also says it is not finished, it also starts in November 2021, and ends in 2022.
 
@ImmortalDread she's only applying stuff that's been accepted.

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara you might need one more staff input on the regen for that to be applied since I'm neutral on the whole thing.
Who agreed ? Have you even waited for dereck to comment on this ? DDM also Disagrees maveric literally said neutral. This thread hasn't been active for 2 days. Nice way to push it without consulting staff who are knowledgeable for their own profit.
 
@PrinceofPein

  • Staff members and trusted knowledgeable members who do not have content revision thread evaluation rights are still encouraged to provide their insights and observations regarding suggested revisions.

Still want to talk? Unless you are ignoring Dereck for not being a knowledgeable member of the verse.
 
Also, this is involving big or controversial changes to the verse, 2:2 is not definitely enough for applying any changes.
  • In cases where the series verse has a significant following or a large amount of material has been published based on its content, it may be necessary to seek approval from a minimum of three staff members to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed revisions. However, it is important to note that this requirement should not be interpreted as a guarantee that the proposed revisions will be approved if a minimum of three staff members have given their approval. In cases involving big or controversial changes, or in situations where a verse is one where many of our staff members are knowledgeable, it may be advisable to involve as many staff members as possible in the review and approval process. This requirement is in place to ensure that revisions to popular or widely-recognized series verses are thoroughly reviewed and approved by a sufficient number of individuals with the necessary expertise and knowledge.
 
a thread being terminated means it's not rejected tho, second that's a much older thread compared to what I posted, which again the arguments applied over to the concept page as we clearly see.
Topic I posted: It is a continuation of the topic you showed, and newer than yours (started in December 2021 and ended in 2022, yours started in September 2021 and ended in the same month), and also your topic and said to be a continuation of the incomplete topic you posted.

"The topic of this discussion is in regards to how we treat conceptual manipulation and is sort of stemming from the current JjK hax revisions thread, and this incomplete thread discussing some of the concepts I am touching upon today."

In addition to the conversations of the admins themselves (and other users) that I showed, which demonstrate that I was not wrong, the description of HGR and basically the explanation of what is the source.

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.

And being portrayed as either a Type 2 or Type 1 concept.
@Dog3352 so you’re not going to address how the thread I linked has it’s arguments repeated in the page, ok.
My arguments are the conversations between the admins and other users, the topic and conversations that decided how the CM works, being just things accepted by the admins and users themselves, yours is just an unfinished topic that was created a continuation to clarify more about the CM.

My topic posted>>>>>>>>>>your topics in every way (except being worse, of course)

Besides the but, the same person who applied the change to the CM page is the same person who said this:

"I made further changes to make it so that concepts don't need to be universal in AoE anymore. I hope the formulation is ok."
 
Ya, I feel it is unfair to apply the changes right now. If this was Elden Ring revision or any big verse, you would not pass it with 3:2 at all, let alone 3:1 and there are still arguments in this thread.
 
Also, this is involving big or controversial changes to the verse, 2:2 is not definitely enough for applying any changes.
3:2 is good enough, yes. Glass has already called staff, so if none of them are interested in evaluating this, then there's not much to do but accept the votes we have now.
 
Also, I would request from you to count blue names in your OP.
I'm choosing the include only staff votes since they are the only ones deciding anything here.

Multiple people here stated that her stance is not clear, therefore neutral stance. You can't take it as a full agreement to every downgrade. It is 2:2
Her stance is "leaning agree" so I counted it as agreement. It is more in favor of the downgrade than against it. She's free to correct me or say if she's changed her opinion if she wants.
 
  • If a disagreement arises between staff members during the evaluation of a content revision thread, it is important to seek the input and guidance of additional staff members in order to reach a fair and unbiased decision. This may involve seeking the opinion of higher-ranked staff members, or consulting with staff members who possess specific expertise or knowledge related to the revision in question. The final decision on the approval of a content revision should be based on a thorough and unbiased evaluation of the suggested changes and their impact on a verse.
  • Input from highly respected members of the community, such as experts on the topic, should be taken into consideration when determining the necessary level of review and approval.
Dread's vote should hold weigh here. She's very knowledgable with Maou Gakuin similarly to dereck

And seeing there are staff disagreement between staff it would need more additional staff members.

Calling Celestial Pegasus might help here since he is very knowledgable and familiar with this verse and similar verses.

again rushing revision is never suggested
 
Dread's vote should hold weigh here. She's very knowledgable with Maou Gakuin similarly to dereck

And seeing there are staff disagreement between staff it would need more additional staff members.

Calling Celestial Pegasus might help here since he is very knowledgable and familiar with this verse and similar verses.

again rushing revision is never suggested
Elizha has been constantly involved with many of the MG threads he/she is definitely more knowledgeable than any staff who agreed with OP. He/she should be pinged too.
 
Since now we're probably just going to wait until I get more votes, I want to make it clear why I disagree, and why my words are right.

I not only spent the whole thread saying that to be CM type 1 or 2 no is about "major scale" or "universal scale", I said that what you need is "fundamentality" or "governing on basic fundamentals/minor concepts", and I'm going to prove that what I was saying was right.

First proof: The last conversation of an entire review in CM was in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/conceptual-manipulation-clarifications-revisions.128012/page-3

Where did I get these conversations from:

In the first, it says that the concept does not need to be universal to be type 1 or 2, saying that the concept being universal does not make it a type 1 or 2 concept (it was before, but after this topic, no is longer a requirement)
"So that we're clear: We agree that changing an abstraction in a fashion that affects reality is not Type 1 or 2, unless said abstraction has demonstrated being the fundamental source of a property?"

"Yeah sure, I guess."
The second and third, it is said that a concept that has no specification (example in the conversation itself), is more likely to be a type 3 CM.
"It would make it easier to classify cases where it is not very clear whether they are Type 1 or 2 concept manip, though. Not all fiction is very clear on the matter. Concepts (or other abstractions) frequently are manipulated without really explaining what their nature is in deta
"What would your alternative suggestion regarding Type 3 be?"

"I still think about keeping type 3 for some kind of safe zone. For example, a character name Toujo Basara, he is said to have a conceptual attack, but nothing more than that; and Siren from Azur Lane, they said that they can control the very fundamental, concept part of the pocket dimension they create, but nothing more than that, and we can't just assume they automatically govern reality universally. Or Tobio from Highschool DxD, he can destroy the concept of magic."

"That's what I meant."
This is literally a direct confirmation that the concept does not need to have universal scale in order to be CM type 1 or 2, saying that something like "universal AoE" is not necessary (making it very clear that universal AoE or universal scale is not required to be type 2 or 1).
Extra proof: This confirmation has a link that goes straight to the revisions, in the penultimate and ante-penultimate changes (revisions), they take out words like "govern the universe" or "govern reality", taking out universal scales, and replacing them with words like "govern reality in all its area" or "govern reality in all area that the concept governs" (making it clear once again that you don't need universal AoE to be CM type 2 or 1).

Another "confirmation" that universal scale or reality scale is not needed.
I don't like the ""universal"" label. Its gives a strong impression that range/AoE is the prime factor in deciding the type of concept. I am sure we pretty much agreed that range/AoE is a complete non-factor in deciding the Type/Nature of Concept.

And also the explanation from the source is almost like a copy of the explanation of what the HGR is (is treated as CM 2).

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.
 
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The thread is not done, so I don't think it's a good idea to apply any changes.

@Theglassman12 Are you going to ping for additional staff members as the policy above stated?

I still request blue names to be counted, you can actually color the staff members, so people can see the difference.
 
I can drop HGR for now and just make a thread on that later. I'll continue waiting for staff and probably just apply the edits over the weekend if nobody shows up.
 
I can drop HGR for now and just make a thread on that later. I'll continue waiting for staff and probably just apply the edits over the weekend if nobody shows up.
You need to wait till @Theglassman12 pings the relevant staff members and then change the edits. Only because the thread dies, does not give you any right to apply any changes.

Also, there are still open arguments here.
 
No, that would be a headache. It's better to find a solution for that here and it will make things much easier and quick
We're 4 pages into this thread and HGR wasn't even discussed until page 3-4. It would be easier to make a new thread recompiling the relevant information for the sake of understanding.

You need to wait till @Theglassman12 pings the relevant staff members and then change the edits. Only because the thread dies, does not give you any right to apply any changes.

Also, there are still open arguments here.
...Yeah, I said I would wait. But my patience isn't infinite, and I could apply the changes tonight if I wanted to. It has nothing to do with the thread dying.
 
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