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Marvel CRT: 2-A Cosmic Cube & Tier 1 Realities

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His greatest feat except for fighting Eternity is merging universes to the Dark Dimension though, presumably one or a few at a time.
 
That is a fair point. However, Dormammu has so much 2-A scaling, some of which comes from characters other than Eternity that I feel like it can't be ignored.
 
I can go either way, I'm fine with it. I was trying to finish up the Monitor stuff before getting started on editing Marvel stuff though. I've got a lot going on so it's kind of hard for me to focus on multiple things for the next few days.
 
I mean... if we are actually at the editing stage, if you give me the details on how to word the revisions on those affected, and I am given the permissions of the mods so there are no problems with me doing it, I can do it and relieve that pressure off of you just doing it alone.
 
My apologies, but I would prefer if POTM handles it, so it is done properly.

Maybe we could wrap this up before focusing on applyig the Monitor revisions?
 
Yes, I do believe that seems to be the most consistent approach to it, also I'd probably replace the "possibly" to "likely" due to how many direct and indirect feats he has scaling to eternity
 
He would scale to so many 2-A things though (Eternity, Slorioth, Classic Strange's strongest artifacts and spells, Agamotto, etc), his own feats not being on a 2-A level shouldn't matter. A majority of the characters being changed is by scaling and not their own feats anyways, why would Dormammu be any different?

@Icarus That statement is contradicted heavily by Dormammu's feats and scaling.
 
I am uncertain in either direction. Sorry. What do the rest of you think?
 
I like your suggestion although I'd also replace "possibly" with "likely" as Hykuu said. Being 100% honest though Tracer has a valid point, I'm personally a little biased against Dormammu's scaling situation because I've always considered him one of the most inconsistent. Trying to get past my own bias, I'd be fine with him fully scaling.
 
I've been silently following the marvel revision threads and personally I believe (despite Dormammu being among the most inconsistent characters in Marvel alongside Silver Surfer), I believe possibly/likely 2-A is fair with "at least 2-C" being his moderate key since despite the "statements" his actual high end feats/scaling puts him far above the Sky-fathers and somewhat on par with the cosmic abstracts.

And tbh despite the obvious issues within DC/Marvel scaling, Dormammu has shown his fair share of 2-A feats/scaling more so than other 2-As I could mention but I digress.
 
Okay, so is "At least 2-C, likely 2-A" acceptable?
 
Also there was this (https://m.imgur.com/AyrM17x), where Dormammu threatens to bring down the Celestials, other beings that are going to be changed to 2-A. And here: (https://m.imgur.com/Ux8Fmx1) he seals the Eye of Agamotto against its will (Agamotto should also be getting buffed to 2-A), Baron Mordo channeling Dormammu's power was able to beat Wong channeling The Vishanti (https://m.imgur.com/a/a1cQs), having Dormammu not be full on 2-A seems extremely illogical. I understand that he's inconsistent, but he has so much scaling and feats that are on a 2-A level. Dormammu even has his own 2-A feat that doesn't involve fighting someone else. In A+X #15, Dormammu's crown alone was capable of stopping a singularity that threatened all known universes.
 
Oh, and when Dormammu clashed with Eternity in Strange Tales, that was Dormammu's weakest incarnation (as is noted on his profile), he has gotten stronger since then.
 
LordTracer said:
Oh, and when Dormammu clashed with Eternity in Strange Tales, that was Dormammu's weakest incarnation (as is noted on his profile), he has gotten stronger since then.
Click to expand...
As much as I would like a full on 2-A Dormammu (trust me I really want the upgrade) for every high-end feat for him, there's a low-end one too it's because of this we have separate guidelines just for DC/Marvel scaling.

Sure it'll be easy to call all the low-end feats as "PiS" but by the same measure someone else could call all the high-end feats "Outliers" and you see the problem right?, that's why "At least 2-C, likely 2-A" is the best middle ground imo and tbh asking for more we'll only cause more headaches.
 
Marvel writers have really gone out of their way to bash Dormammu as just another regular medium-powered supervillain in recent years. He doesn't really have much to do with his original portrayal anymore.
 
It seems so illogical when Dormammu very consistently fights and defeats 2-A beings, he has his own 2-A feat (a feat that would be performed by something that's only a portion of his power) and a lot of his 2-A stuff comes from him being weakened or not as strong as he has become. There's way too much to call it outliers. And really, what valid low-ends are there against Dormammu being 2-A (which I have even more feats to support him being as such)? The only thing I've really seen against it is him only merging a few universes to the Dark Dimension.
 
And Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #24 contradicts that, as when Dormammu was going to destroy the Dark Dimension, it was stated that there are "worlds beyond counting" in it. That is at the very least 2-B, if not 2-A.
 
@Ant Then perhaps you could separate Dormammu into a Classic and Modern profile like Strange?
 
More showings of Dormammu consistently being straight-up 2-A:

Dormammu should know all of Strange's spells, including all of the 2-A ones. And as I've mentioned before, Dormammu should scale above Strange's strongest spells. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111337706/6323946-2.jpg

Dormammu has one-shot Giraud, host of the Phoenix. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11135/111359601/6568086-2 (1) (1) (1).jpg

And Giraud was capable of making Eternity scream in pain. https://m.imgur.com/a/SfADC

The Vishanti, who Dormammu consistently scales above, are stated to be capable of destroying and creating a multiverse. https://m.imgur.com/a/pwBsLb3

A weakened Dormammu thought that channeling his power through Doctor Strange would allow him to at least contend with Goddess and her Cosmic Egg, which is composed of thirty Cosmic Cubes. https://static.comicvine.com/upload...7835522_1632101216879111_2020205423_o (1).jpg https://static.comicvine.com/upload...95-27835522_1632101216879111_2020205423_o.jpg
 
BTW usung the Host as evidence... The Phoenix Hosts have had showings of 2A for a pretty good amount of time, like Vulcan becoming a host was going to destroy all timelknes as he couldn't control his power, Rachel keeping up with someone vastly superior to the Phoenix host that anchored the Phoenix to perform a 2A feat , countering the Mkrann crystal which was stated later to be capable of destroying all timelines and later rivaling the Mkrann Crystal completely.

There is a lot putting the Hosts at such a level.
 
LordTracer said:
@Ant Then perhaps you could separate Dormammu into a Classic and Modern profile like Strange?
Click to expand...
That may be a good idea.
 
So, perhaps Modern Dormammu can be 2-C or whatever tier you think would be best, and Classic Dormammu can be 2-A? I'm sure I've given a sufficient amount of evidence for Classic Dormammu being full on 2-A, especially since a lot of these feats came from Dormammu being weakened/not in his strongest incarnation.
 
Modern Dormammu has at best been presented as slightly stronger than modern base Doctor Strange, i.e. 4-B. At worst, he is beaten up by Cyclops.
 
Isn't Modern Strange's base 2-C due to absorbing power from Yggdrasil? But eh, Modern Dormammu can be whatever, I'm pretty sure he's more inconsistent than his Classic counterpart. But anyways, with the new stuff I've given on top of the already established points, do you think that's enough for (Classic) Dormammu to have a solid 2-A ranking?
 
Absorbing the power from Yggdsrassil allowed him to fight Mephisto within his realm yes.

My major problem is the Ancient One because if he scales to 2-A then it may or may not present a problem.
 
One thing I want to ask: Would it be okay to use the Fallen Star stuff but lowball it to 2-A for consistency's sake ? If so then the Universal Abstracts becoming outright 2-A isn't as bad..

Anyways... The reason why I think it is a problem is because it's pretty obvious Ancient One does scale to 2-A.. Especially if what I said above is considered.. However, if someone who scales to 2-A is one with the Universe... and people can destroy the Universe / Earth-616 after The Ancient became one with it ... Would it be presumptious to assume that Earth-616, to destroy it's cosmos, would be a 2-A feat as of now ?
 
The Ancient One should have the same statistics as Doctor Strange, but has unfortunately not been updated.
 
I suppose that classic Dormammu could scale to 2-A anyway, but I am not the best person to ask.
 
Well, there are some things that would put him at Low 1-C/1-C, but it's far less consistent than 2-A.
 
Not to get ahead of myself or anything, but assuming 2-A Dormammu gets approved, this could be his justification: Multiverse level+ (Sustains the existence of the Dark dimension, which has "worlds beyond counting" in it, and has threatened to destroy it more than once. In his weakest incarnation, he was able to seal and later fight on par with Eternity. One-shot Giraud, who was able to wound Eternity and make him scream in pai. Defeated Slorioth and The Trinity of Ashes. Slorioth threatens Eternity by merely existing, and the Trinity equals The Vishanti, who can destroy and create a multiverse. Dormammu's crown was capable of stopping a singularity that would destroy all known universes. Should be superior to Doctor Strange's strongest spells, as he knows all of them on top of his ow)
 
Bump. About DeMatteis' Fallen Stars... I messaged him a long time ago about the canonicity of the Fallen Stars.... He said recently that most of his works, including the Fallen Stars do take place in his own versio of the Marvel Comics Universe... Not in the main canon. So... Where do we go from there ? Can we perhaps make a key for that version for those who primarily scale in those versions... or ?

To stay on task in case the above gets noped hard, I agree with Tracer's justification.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Bump. About DeMatteis' Fallen Stars... I messaged him a long time ago about the canonicity of the Fallen Stars.... He said recently that most of his works, including the Fallen Stars do take place in his own versio of the Marvel Comics Universe... Not in the main canon. So... Where do we go from there ? Can we perhaps make a key for that version for those who primarily scale in those versions... or ?

To stay on task in case the above gets noped hard, I agree with Tracer's justification.
Click to expand...
Make the key.Just use your previous idea
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Bump. About DeMatteis' Fallen Stars... I messaged him a long time ago about the canonicity of the Fallen Stars.... He said recently that most of his works, including the Fallen Stars do take place in his own versio of the Marvel Comics Universe... Not in the main canon. So... Where do we go from there ? Can we perhaps make a key for that version for those who primarily scale in those versions... or ?

To stay on task in case the above gets noped hard, I agree with Tracer's justification.
Click to expand...
If you asked him directly over this canon issue we can't take that statement as true iirc.
 
But we currently use Word of God about Hickman in the exact sense. Even on this very thread a mod used the Hickman WoG as law when it was a firect question relating to that topic. WoG has always been used as long as it makes sense and is consistent. This fits both criteria and Matteis isn't known to lie so he has good faith to his readers so it also isn't a death by author scenario either.
 
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