1-A, possibly High 1-A Franklin Richards Upgrade Thread

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Found this, Franklin saying he has created multiverses (Sorry for the quality)

EDIT; better quality image

 

[Excellence616]

I could help with some of the scans. Adding tags to this thread would help. Took me time find this thread

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay so, while I didn't have enough time to add scans, I DID edit the OP to include comic issues as to where exactly to find all of the evidence. When I get the chance I'll actually fill it out with the scans, but hoping this will satiate people for the moment.

One of the most important tidbits is the fact that in Fantastic Four #375, #376 that it's stated that his powers continuously grow at an geometric rate every moment. So basically the power level he has when he's just starting off is way weaker than how powerful he is later on, despite it being stated that in his fight with Agatha that they were fighting across the full gamut (the complete scope) of reality, and Agatha was almost immediately and completely overpowered in that fight.

 

[Antvasima]

Found this, Franklin saying he has created multiverses (Sorry for the quality)

EDIT; better quality image

That probably refers to when the Molecule Man and himself rebuilt the Marvel multiverse after the second Secret Wars event.

 

[Excellence616]

The sandbox have more than enough evidence to bump Franklin to 1-A, possibly High 1-A. Not that we are going to use the entire scans in the sandbox.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine to me as well, yes.

 

[Excellence616]

That seems fine to me as well, yes.

Yeah. Two of his justification for High is for 1-A

 

[Excellence616]

Bump

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So, what would be the justification for '1-A, possibly High 1-A' (or just 1-A since it seems Goofy's thread is going through)

 

[Excellence616]

So, what would be the justification for '1-A, possibly High 1-A' (or just 1-A since it seems Goofy's thread is going through)

1. The Omniversal guardians alongside Eternity and Infinity considered him a threat with power enough to stand as an equal before the Celestial Race (Fantastic Four (Vol. 3) #8; 1998)
2. Narration describes Occulus as omnipotent after tapping into Franklin's power (Fantastic Four #364) , which with them it was not only stated that there was no feat or task that is beyond his current capabilities (Fantastic Four #364), but also with them he is stated to be a threat to every plane of existence (Fantastic Four #365)
3. Can casually separate Nightmare from two other beings, with the process causing all of them pain implying it did significantly affect/hurt Nightmare and Phoenix Force Rachel (Excalibur #29) . Franklin proceeded to defeat the possessed Phoenix Force Rachel in the same issue.
4. A significantly weakened Franklin is still referred to as the most powerful boy in the Multiverse.(Fantastic Four Vol 6 issue 20)
5. Could harm the Cormorant, who should scale above the Zero Force. Franklin earn the respect of Cormorant as he is the only one on earth plane capable of challenging him. Reed, in same issue said Franklin's power is capable of creating universes and battling Gods of which Doctor Doom agreed.
6. Implied he could harm an amped In-Betweener if he access to his powers (Silver Surfer 1988 #17).
7. The Dreaming Celestial Tiamut, who was the strongest of the Host, a threat to the entire Cosmos (which is explicitly implied in context to be All of Creation), who had a hand in shaping All of Creation, was unable to affect Franklin's Counter Earth until he was no longer protecting it. These scans come from Heroes Reborn: Asheema and Fantastic Four Volume 3.
8. Franklin is stated to be capable of reshaping the entire Cosmos (with 'The entire Cosmos" in this arc, specifically in Heroes Reborn Asheema referring to All of Creation) and capable of destroying Everything by Roma's definition of Everything , with Uatu explicitly stating the Fate of All may hang in the balance, with Uatu being known to be aware of the nature of the Cosmology of Marvel up to an at the very least Low 1-A scale. Roma is explicitly stated as over viewing the entire Omniverse in the very same issue, so her definition of Everything would in-fact be equivalent of the Omniverse. It is also stated in these same issues that Franklin can do just about anything with his powers. These scans come from Fantastic Four Volume 3 issues 7.
9. Then later on we truly see him capable of affecting Multiversal Eternity (Fantastic Four Volume 3 issue 49)
10. Griever at the End of All Things is explicitly implied to have been waiting for Franklin's powers to run out before making a move, implying she wouldn't have if Franklin still had his powers at their full extent (Fantastic Four (Vol 6) #2)
11. Young Franklin turns a celestial energy attack to flowers. The Celestials also describe Franklin as "Beyond Omega". (Fantastic Four #13).

Franklin ratings should have something like:
Unknown physically. 1-A with powers for all his AP, Durability and Striking Strength.
Range: Outerversal
Speed: Immeasurable
Lifting Strength: Unknown physically. Immeasurable with powers

 

[Excellence616]

bump

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So, a few things I found out after reading Volume 6. I posted it in the Discussion thread but I thought it'd be best to also post it here:

• Doctor Doom states that the Cormurant comes from a Higher Plane of Existence entirely than Earth 616 in Vol 6 issue 25. Reed also believed that Cormurant was beyond an Omega Level threat. Cormurant confirms this in Vol 6 issue 43
• The Cormorant was stated by Dr. Doom to be one of the most powerful beings in this or any reality.
• Wrath empowered by the M'krann Crystal that he himself destroyed before being amped by them, still was being defeated by Comurant until he used the one weakness he built into Cormurant just in case of this exact situation (Fantastic Four Vol 6 issue 44) . Wrath stated he survived a blast that eradicated 9/10ths of Creation, something confirmed by Uatu. (Vol 6 issue 42). I say defeat loosely because he really didn't seem that affected afterwards so yeah Cormurant is a whole beast.
• Despite being told about The Cormurant by Dr.Doom, Reed is still confident Franklin could fight him (Vol 6 issue 25)
• Cormurant straight up acknowledges that Franklin was the only being who could possibly fight him in 616 (Once again, Vol 6 issue 25)

So yeah, 1-A even for a Heavily Weakened Franklin is completely confirmed as of Volume 6. Like he was roughly even with Cormurant who was about to kill someone who tanked 9/10ths of All of Creation being destroyed, is from a higher plane of reality, and straight up said no one else in 616 could possibly match him other than Franklin.

 

[Excellence616]

So, a few things I found out after reading Volume 6. I posted it in the Discussion thread but I thought it'd be best to also post it here:

• Doctor Doom states that the Cormurant comes from a Higher Plane of Existence entirely than Earth 616 in Vol 6 issue 25. Reed also believed that Cormurant was beyond an Omega Level threat. Cormurant confirms this in Vol 6 issue 43
• The Cormorant was stated by Dr. Doom to be one of the most powerful beings in this or any reality.
• Wrath empowered by the M'krann Crystal that he himself destroyed before being amped by them, still was being defeated by Comurant until he used the one weakness he built into Cormurant just in case of this exact situation (Fantastic Four Vol 6 issue 44) . Wrath stated he survived a blast that eradicated 9/10ths of Creation, something confirmed by Uatu. (Vol 6 issue 42). I say defeat loosely because he really didn't seem that affected afterwards so yeah Cormurant is a whole beast.
• Despite being told about The Cormurant by Dr.Doom, Reed is still confident Franklin could fight him (Vol 6 issue 25)
• Cormurant straight up acknowledges that Franklin was the only being who could possibly fight him in 616 (Once again, Vol 6 issue 25)

So yeah, 1-A even for a Heavily Weakened Franklin is completely confirmed as of Volume 6. Like he was roughly even with Cormurant who was about to kill someone who tanked 9/10ths of All of Creation being destroyed, is from a higher plane of reality, and straight up said no one else in 616 could possibly match him other than Franklin.

Another key for a weakened Franklin?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Another key for a weakened Franklin?

Basically yeah, and Full Power Franklin would just massively upscale. It also backs up Valeria's statement she made that the weakened Franklin still had enough power to fight the Celestials (and she was right there when he fought the Mad Celestials in the past and she is extremely intelligent so not a statement to just throw away) . and weakened Franklin is considered the most powerful boy in the Multiverse by Narration (which would likely put him above a few 1-A characters like Demiurge Wiccan)

Doom also considered Weakened Franklin as Krakoa's most powerful Mutant, so that's something.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump.

So basically here is what I have based on what Excellence gave , alongside other things I found:

Franklin ratings should have something like:
Unknown physically. 1-A with powers (Referred to as having powers unprecedented in humanity's history and being humanity's pinnacle up until Heroes Reborn: The Return, putting him above beings such as Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force , Doctor Strange at it's highest end, and many more beings who have been known to Humanity. Consistently referred to as the most powerful mutant. Defeated Phoenix Force Rachel. Defeated a version of Mephisto in his realm who was causing Doctor Strange to struggle. Harmed Muli-Eternity indirectly. Stated by Roma to be capable of destroying everything despite her definition of everything being the Omniverse as it is her job to safeguard and monitor the Omniverse as it's Guardian. Even when severely weakened, he could fight on par with Cormurant, a beeing beyond the higher plane of Earth-616 who could damage and nearly killed an entity who survived 9/10ths of All of Creation being detonated around him, and is referred to by narration as the most powerful boy in the Multiverse, putting him above a Fully Powered Legion, who is stated to be arguably the most powerful being in the Multiverse)
Range: Outerversal
Speed: Immeasurable
Lifting Strength: Unknown physically. Immeasurable with powers


If anyone has an issue with reasoning let me know, but this is essentially the most notable 1-A stuff (some would be High 1-A if Ultima re-upgrades them back to High 1-A or higher, who knows with Ultima he tends to surprise us a lot of the time with what he's cooking behind the scenes)

Sorry for the edit, but arguably the most damning pieces of evidence of Celestials scaling to Abstracts or above is the Progneitor's interaction with Fully Powered Legion.

It is that Fully Powered Legion despite his huge accolades (Stated he may be the most powerful being to exist , Immortal X-Men #5 , and even him without being whole was affecting Earth-616) , he is still regarded as being capable of being judged by this no name Celestial like how Kubik was judged by that no name Celestial... Extremely damning to me, especially since this isn't even one of the Fourth Hosts who Franklin was compared to, and they are consistently referred to as the most powerful Celestials.