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Marvel CRT: 2-A Cosmic Cube & Tier 1 Realities

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@Tracer

I think your case for the scaling is legit. I can't view any of your links for some reason though, I don't know if it's on my end or not. But it would probably be better to condense his justification and move most of those feats to the feat section, at least imo.

@Seed

Well, what exactly do you want to do? Just remember that Kep disagreed with High 1-B, so new keys for Franklin and the like would probably still just be 2-A.
 
He disagreed with it scaling to the main canon , and disagreed using it to upgrade the main canon timeline to High 1-B, which this won't.. I promise that. It scales only to that version of Marvel as per his word.
 
Oh, I think I know what the problem is. I'll try to compile the scans in an Imgur album on desktop. What scans would you use for his justification, I'll upload those separately.
 
He disagreed with people that scale to well-fed Galactus scaling, but two comments above that he also called High 1-B unreasonable on its own.
 
He called it unreasonable because he's assuming the canon is affected: Because after that he proceeded to rant about how using one disconnected storyline to upgrade the canon is not good. That is where i got that conclusion from. However, There isn't anything disproving High 1-B for said non-canon variation of Marvel a which no one scales to but those involved within it, which is 3 profiles as opposed to "a crapton". The feat is there in that comic and if he has a problem with the Fallen Stars being High 1-B he is free to come and debate with me about it.

Also for Well Fed Galactus scaling: Galactus isn't even involved in those comics really so it doesn't affect him, neither really the abstracts as they are only mentioned somewhat but don't play a key part in it so that removes the crapton that would be getting a key. The only ones that do play a key part abd clearly affect it's lore is Man-Thing, FR, and the Celestials... with Strange as a maybe as he is also extremely important.

No one else would get a key because the scaling is so significantly different from regular Marvels and you wouldn't be able to scale it to anyone else anyways... as the only reason I'm even having them is because they have direct feats of scaling from those comics ... Not from indirect scaling.
 
Alright, then before discussing (preferably with Ant) about adding non-canon keys to their profiles, can you post the message you had with DeMatteis? And honestly Seed, if you had previously gotten word from the man himself that said stuff is not canon to the main continuity, then you should not have been arguing for them being used in the main continuity while hiding that information. It's not a good look.
 
I just looked on Twitter... Like literally today because I was looking up something else on Twitter. I just found out. Yes I asked him but I didn't know I got a response until today. He said it like this:

" Every writer's work is his own version of the Marvel Universe " . Kind of makes sense because everyone has their own version of how things happen in Marvel Comics... it's what makes marvel inconsistent. The use of Every would include his own which is why I count it as answering my question positively instead of negatively.

I can take a screenshot but that is word for word what he said.
 
No need for a screenshot, since that's just a non-answer. Rather than explicitly saying his work is in a different continuity, he just gave a canned reply about comics being inconsistent because each writer does what they want.

If we gave alternate keys because of that answer, the logical thing to do would be to have a different key for every writer's scaling of every character in Marvel. Which is definitely out of the question in my book.
 
Imgur put them out of order, so they might not make much sense, so I'll explain if you need me to.
 
I personally wouldn't mind an "At least 2-C, possibly 2-A" Odin and maybe some of the others comparable to him since he does have a few 2-A feats albeit inconsistent but stuff like Marvel and DC in general are inconsistent regardless.
 
Okay then.... All of that for nothing. Please forget I ever mentioned it because it was a waste of everyone's time and aggrevation . Let's please move on.

As for the 2-A Revision it seems we are in agreement with scaling and the feats so far, yes ?
 
Well, I've gotten people to agree on Classic Dormammu being full 2-A, so I agree with all of the scaling in this revision.
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
No need for a screenshot, since that's just a non-answer. Rather than explicitly saying his work is in a different continuity, he just gave a canned reply about comics being inconsistent because each writer does what they want.

If we gave alternate keys because of that answer, the logical thing to do would be to have a different key for every writer's scaling of every character in Marvel. Which is definitely out of the question in my book.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and we have extensively repeatedly talked about this before, so I would appreciate if Seed could finally permanently drop the subject.
 
Okay. My apologies.
 
It's fine. Sorry if it seemed like I snapped.... It's just kind of sad realizing too late this is a debate I shouldn't have ever started so long ago when I invested so much of myself into that debate.

But... Unlike before.... We now have a seemingly good foundation for Marvel being revised to 2-A... That in and of itself is a miracle considering the many years it has been denied. So let's continue onwards towards that.

Also a question: What hax would fall under someone who can "manipulate the laws and limits of reality ?". It was during the Onslaught Saga so I thought I should maybe go over hax while discussing AP. Some people told me it's a blend of Concept/Law Manipulation.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
It's fine. Sorry if it seemed like I snapped.... It's just kind of sad realizing too late this is a debate I shouldn't have ever started so long ago when I invested so much of myself into that debate.

But... Unlike before.... We now have a seemingly good foundation for Marvel being revised to 2-A... That in and of itself is a miracle considering the many years it has been denied. So let's continue onwards towards that.

Also a question: What hax would fall under someone who can "manipulate the laws and limits of reality ?". It was during the Onslaught Saga so I thought I should maybe go over hax while discussing AP. Some people told me it's a blend of Concept/Law Manipulation.
Click to expand...
Thats just law and reality hax
 
I've fixed the Dormammu justification, it should have working links now. @POTM It's still a little long, so when you get around to doing the revisions, feel free to move some stuff to the feats section at the bottom of the page.

Multiverse level+ (Sustains the existence of the Dark dimension, which has worlds beyond counting, and he has threatened to destroy it twice. His crown could have stopped a singularity that threatened all universes. Fought Eternity in his weakest incarnatio. Defeated the Trinity of Ashes and Slorioth, who equal the multiversal Vishanti and threaten Eternity just by existing, respectively. One-shot Giruad, who wounded Eternity. Knows all of Doctor Strange's spells)
 
Thank you for helping out. That seems fine.
 
We should rename the page to "Dormammu (Classic)" though.
 
Right. Kinda off topic, but would it be possible to have pages for Umar/Umar (Classic) and Clea/Clea (Classic)? Umar would scale directly to Dormammu's weaker incarnations and Clea would scale to Umar and a suppressed Dormammu.
 
I do not know. I am not aware of if we have enough information to reliably scale them.
 
Uhmmm..... the scan about the Multiversal Vishanti doesn't seem to just include Vishanti, but the Elder Gods ( and the skyfathers but that can easily be ignored) as well.

Speaking of them, would the scan stating they can create the Crossroads help with scaling to 2-A ?

Also... Girad is a Phoenix Avatar.
 
It referred to them being "masters of the cosmic and mystical realms," that doesn't particularly sound like the Elder Gods, and certainly not the Skyfathers. It should only apply to The Vishanti.
 
@POTM

Are you willing to apply the agreed upon changes?
 
Okay. Thank you.

I would appreciate if you or somebody else writes a list of the exact titles for all of the pages that you need unlocked, so my automated script can handle it,
 
Abraxas

Beyonder (Post-Retcon)

Celestials

Death (Marvel Comics)

Edifice Rex

Eternity

Galactus (Marvel Comics)

The In-Betweener

Infinity (Marvel Comics)

Lord Chaos

Kobik

Mad Celestial

Master Order

Molecule Man

Phoenix Force

The Protege

The Stranger

Uatu the Watcher

Thanos (Marvel Comics)

Agamotto

Ancient One (Marvel Comics)

Doctor Strange (Classic)

Dormammu (Marvel Comics)

SHuman-Gorath

Zom

Doctor Doom

Franklin Richards

Apocalypse (Marvel Comics)

Jean Grey (Marvel Comics)

Cosmic Cubes

The Infinity Gauntlet
 
I believe Mephisto's [In his Realm] key also needs to be Updated, as he scales to the Cosmic Cubes while in his realm and fought a Well-Fed Galactus. His Base Key should remain 2-C though.
 
So Odin fighting Galactus is inconsistent and he should stay 2-C is that what was concluded for him here or are we still discussing that?
 
@Huesito Skyfathers will be the next discussion after the Upgrades are sent through.

Also: Base Mepshito scales currently above Dweller, who going by his profile is superior at least to Classic Dr.Strange [who has shown the ability to affect the Multiverse or scaling somewhat to those who can do so even without accessing the power of the Abstracts]... Which makes sense as Dr.Strange , even in his Classic stage is usually pressured by Mephisto. So... Based on how I see this:

  • The update applies to Dweller of Darkness , Base Mephisto & his realm [Which makes sense as Kubik fears the Fear Lords but doesn't fear Odin and says outright that he actually is far beyond Odin], so as such remove any mentioning of the Skyfathers until discussed further.
  • Also on Dweller's profile remove any mentioning of Dormammu as that is severely contradicted him scaling above Dormammu
 
I have unlocked all of the pages. Feel free to edit them PrinceOfTheMorning.
 
Thank you very much for the help.
 
@Ant I forgot that the Marquis of Death would also be 2-A now, his profile needs to be unlocked.
 
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