Hasty12345
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Here we go with the derailing again
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Marvel Cosmology Downgrade
- Thread starter LuciferX
- Start date
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- Tags
- cosmology marvel comics
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This thread was turning completely out of control, and Milly had nothing to do with this discussion previously. He evidently only joined the gang-up out of spite. Also, I haven't noticed Deagonx relentlessly attacking you. He has done some in my view warranted criticism though.
However, this is even more derailing of this disaster thread.
However, this is even more derailing of this disaster thread.
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It happens with every thread they're in.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,366
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It happens with every thread you and them are in.
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They don't take being debunked gracefully.
Transcending
He/Him- 1,998
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@Antvasima So have you stopped the argument or not? Because Deagon just made a whole post which you even liked
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Topic on, what is current conclusion?
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Marvel is a mess
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Yes. Completely. It is very unsuitable for any powerscaling wiki to try to make coherent sense of.
Anyway, I apologise for my likely overly authoritarian irritability and mismanagement of the argument above. As I mentioned, I still have over a hundred different tasks to deal with before I go to bed, and am under great amounts of mental stress and strain at the moment, which I am not able to deal with well yet.
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That would be extremely appreciated, yes, but I have repeatedly asked for help in that regard and not received any yet.
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It appears that this concept may require the creation of a new cosmology page and an explanatory page to provide clarification. However, this project is big as DC one.
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Unfortunately I'm not as well read on Marvel as I am on DC
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Let's pretend you haven't asked me this in over a year, and that i didn't split the cosmology and your best argument was that you are incapable of reading comics and giving a coherent assessment other than using those admin rights of yours to deny proposals with your downplayer point of view.
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I see this thread's devolved quite a bit while I was gone.
In any case. What's the current consensus? I don't exactly want to type out a post only to find that the thread has been closed all of a sudden, so, well? May we continue after the previous mess?
In any case. What's the current consensus? I don't exactly want to type out a post only to find that the thread has been closed all of a sudden, so, well? May we continue after the previous mess?
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For gods' sakes, it is not downplay to not want all universe-busting Marvel Comics superheroes and supervillains, and likely all regular inhabitants of said universes to automatically get High 1-B statistics based on a few completely disconnected scans gathered from very few of Marvel's over 100,000 stories, when the settings have consistently been portrayed in a 3-dimensional manner. I am perfectly fine with the nexus itself, and as such the Marvel multiverse, being infinite-dimensional, but I do not want to cause enormous amounts of very ill-considered damage to the reliability of our statistics as a whole. That is all.
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The cosmology needs a re-evaluation and a new cosmology page, but you can drop your post if you want to. Your input is highly appreciated.
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It doesn't matter if it's the universe or the multiverse, the point is that no such hero or villain will scale, we just want a High 1-B Multiverse based on the evidence we brought. If you want to interpret the Zone as something that connects the entire multiverse, or that it's just inside the 616, whatever.
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Anyway, I really hope that you will be very careful to not allow overly extreme upgrades that do not make logical sense with the context of the setting as a whole, as I have to leave and perform other tasks now.
@Deagonx @Eficiente @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Qawsedf234
I would greatly appreciate your help with keeping this revision from not going completely out of control please. Our Marvel Comics statistics have increasingly gone completely to hell since Impress left.
@Deagonx @Eficiente @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Qawsedf234
I would greatly appreciate your help with keeping this revision from not going completely out of control please. Our Marvel Comics statistics have increasingly gone completely to hell since Impress left.
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Well, I have no problem whatsoever with the nexus only scaling to the Marvel multiverse. I only have a problem with all tier 2 Marvel Comics characters suddenly being upgraded to High 1-B or above, as well as all inhabitants of regular universes automatically being infinite-dimensional, as that doesn't make any logical sense.
And since the Negative Zone is clearly established to be a regular sized mirror-universe, the nexuses that intersect with it should logically only scale to the multiverse itself.
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Yes, it has been hair-tearingly frustrating for me to deal with all the likely over a hundred attempts over the years to take a few scans out of context to attempt to squeeze the highest statistics possible out of it, even though there are likely more instances of herald-level characters being portrayed as tier 9 or 8 than 3 or 2. Also, even for the people who are genuinely trying to make sense of it all in a coherent and consistent manner, it is extremely difficult to do so.
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Compared to the OP, how has the current topic changed? If the argument is the Cantor Set/Infinite Dimensional universe stuff I thought we got said those weren't useable forever ago.
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There was some ongoing contentions primarily about to what degree the Cantor stuff could be used and how we would tier some of the stuff like the Negative Zone and Crossroads of Infinity. Neither reached definitive conclusions unfortunately. Then the derailing happened
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Now that the derailing is over, we can hopefully start the discussion again. I'll respond to the posts from two pages ago shortly.
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Thank you, Ultima!
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Well, I am personally fine with a High 1-B Marvel multiverse, and possibly higher, but there has been an intense controversy regarding the Negative Zone, as it has consistently been established to be an antimatter mirror-iniverse and also to intersect with an infinite-dimensional nexus. However, I have been extremely stressed out from attempting to deal with apparent attempts to make the Negative Zone itself and all other comparably large universes High 1-B instead of just the multiversal nexuses, as it would automatically scale to all tier 2 marvel Comics characters, and likely make all of the inhabitants in them infinite-dimensional as an automatic consequence, which doesn't make any logical sense, and would completely destroy all remaining credibility for our Marvel Comics character profile pages.
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Well, just living or existing in an infinite dimensional realm doesn't make you automatically High 1-B.
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I'm not. The multiverse has no default size and assuming it does will only lead to a vast array of problems.
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Antvasima if your concern is that Blastaar and Annihilus would scale to High 1-B and then all the heroes would be scaled, don't fret about it, because Annihilus himself exists far from the zones of distortions of the Negative Zone, because it destroys anti-matter. So much so that there is a scan of the distortion zones forcing his existence in Ultima's first reply, as if he gets too close to the densest point of these distortions of higher dimensions he just is erased.
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It wouldn't make any sense if every single inhabitant of these infinite-dimensional universes would happen to be 3-dimensional. From what I understand we are also all really 11-dimensional just like our real world universe, so the characteristics would usually automatically be shared as far as I am aware.
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Okay. Please elaborate.
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We already accept that in-principle there's no default state of the multiverse. It canonically changes because of the House.
If they only have three dimensional volumes and only exist in three dimensions then they're three-dimensional. You can live in a Tier 0 universe and still only be Tier 11, they're axis volumes in all other directions would just be 0.
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I have much bigger concerns than that. As was firmly established in the linked comic book reading site stories in one of my posts from other threads that I linked to above, including the original Annihilation event, the Negative Zone has been firmly established to be a negative mirror of the same size as the regular Marvel universes, so every single universe-buster or creator, and all other characters that scale to them, would suddenly be upgraded from tier 2 to High 1-B if you get your way.
It makes much greater logical sense that the multiversal nexus within the Negative Zone would share the same nature as all other multiversal nexuses that have been established within the Marvel Comics continuity, including Captain Britain's lighthouse, Mister Fantastic's self-created portal, the Crossroads dimension, the M'Kraan Crystal (likely spelled wrong), and the Nexus of Realities. meaning, that they are higher-dimensional constructs that intersect with lower-dimensional realities, but certainly aren't bound by them, which is also proven by that they can be used for transsport all across the Marvel multiverse.
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Well, we would still need to split the cosmology in that case.
That might make sense for a part of them, but it seems to strain incredulity an awful lot to assume that every single inhabitant of an infinite-dimensional universe would be three- or four-dimensional, rather than perceive each universe as a 4-dimensional brane as in the real world.
Also, even if we use this interpretation, we would have to wipe out tier 2 entirely for Marvel Comics and make a very large part of our regular superheroes and supervillain tier High 1-B, which is still completely unreasonable, unreliable, and destructive.
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See here:
read comic online.li/Comic/Thanos/Issue-7?id=55153
read comic online.li/Comic/Annihilation/Issue-1?id=39409
read comic online.li/Comic/Annihilation-Prologue/Full?id=75093
read comic online.li/Comic/Annihilation-Heralds-Of-Galactus/Issue-2?id=78094
read comic online.li/Comic/Annihilation-The-Nova-Corps-Files/Full?id=83445
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Ant, it would not. We literally exist in this state in the real world. You can exist in a realm of infinite dimensional axis but only have 3 or 5 or 80 with any volume to them.
We wouldn't because you're confusing existing in a n-D space with being n-D space. A 3-Dimensional Character in fiction can affect an infinite-dimensional volume. No one would be downgraded because they can affect volumes greater than themselves.
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Higher Dimensional Existence (HDM) has no relation with effecting a structure (which gives you a physical stats). Them existing in a boundless structure or high 1-B structure won't change their dimensional beingness.
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But the real world multiverse, if it exists, is divided into 4-dimensional segments/branes, which we live in and correspond to, if I have understood correctly. It is not remotely the same thing.
The tier 2 characters in question all scale from universe-busting or creating feats, so yes, they would all automatically end up at tier High 1-B. As such, I much prefer to use Occam's Razor and interpret the multiversal transportation nexus accessible via the Negative Zone as working exactly the same way as all other multiversal transportation nexuses within Marvel Comics, meaning that they are not remotely bound by the universes that they connect with, and they definitely wouldn't even be possible to use for multiversal transport if they were each contained within and confined by a single universe.
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