The Macroverse wank has been completely debunked. It's derailing to continue to stonewall a discussion thread on a subject that is certainly not going to be accepted.
This will be settled permanently.
"As
above, so
below! Here in the
Microverse, I find the same wonders I discovered in the
Macroverse."
1. Microverse and Macroverse directly referenced in the same sentence as "above" and "below" the "equiverse" which is the regular universe.
2. Microverse directly described as a "micro-universe within our own" in the comic, which means that this comic was operating based on that notion .
3. Another direct equivocation, "in all creation, from sub-atomic (microverse) to the macroverse."
4. A ship travels from the microverse to the macroverse.
And the coup d'état.
The macroverse was not a dream. In the comic he was shunted into the macroverse after being stuck in a dream world. Surfer says the one thing he is sure of is that it isn't a dream.
There you have it. The Macroverse is the
direct opposite of the Microverse, which is a micro-universe within the equiverse, which is the normal universe.
Now, do you intend to persist in arguing for a ridiculous upgrade based on a bad interpretation of a comic run you didn't actually read? Or can the rest of us move on with a more reasonable discussion?
This still contains many of the previous problems and doesn't address the core issues. I never stated that the Microverse and Macroverse were not inverses of each other, just pointed out some flaws in Deagon's arguments, which still stand, probably why he's resorting to new arguments. Now, the second scan and the fourth scan are the only relevant scans here, as the other 2 scans are used to show the Microverse and Macroverse being inverses of each other, and while I could point out flaws in the given scans, Deagon would then likely again straw man my argument into saying they are not inverses, so I won't do that until he gives a valid answer to my main question that I have been asking for a while-
How does the Microverse and Macroverse being inverses of each other mean Sama-D was referring to the Microverse?
The second scan does imply the Microverse exists within the main universe, but this again doesn't prove that Sama-D was referring to the Microverse. In fact, Sama-D was pretty much referring to all universes, not just one or two, and we know Marvel isn't limited to worlds-within-worlds,
it has parallel realities(worlds-besides-worlds). So it
cannot be referring to the Microverse, a realm that exists inside just the main universe. I also fail to see how a universe can't contain universes within its atoms and simultaneously view some others as dreams.
But more than all of this, there's a very vital point, and that's the fact
Marvel currently uses a composite cosmology. Deagon himself has stated before that Mandrakk's origin in Final Crisis was retconned in the Metal era. But when FC was written, Mandrakk had his old origin. Would you use that origin when discussing FC stuff or his "new" origin, Deagon? I am fairly certain that you would say you would use his newer origin, and you already have, in the past. Similarly, even if the comic did consider the Microverse to be a universe within the main universe, that wouldn't align with how it's currently supposed to be. The Microverse was parallel, then became something that exists within the main universe, and then somehow became parallel again? These are undeniable contradictions. The correct thing to do would be to use what the Microverse is currently referred to as(parallel), to apply that onto the old comic, and change how the comic worked out accordingly. That's how things work, as Ultima said, newer stuff overrides old. Deagon himself used similar logic in the Lucifer downgrade thread, no reason why it wouldn't apply here.
So the Microverse does exist as a parallel reality, but even if it wasn't, my argument stands and Deagon has failed to address the vital questions. Next, he used this scan-
However, his own scan debunks him.
This is no dream... no illusion formed from the depths of my mind
Silver Surfer is specifically talking about how the Macroverse is not an illusion formed by HIS mind, how it's not something HE'S dreaming. That has no relation to whether it is a dream to a HIGHER reality. This is confirmed in the previous issue as well, which you obviously didn't read
But I don't see how whether it is a dream or not is relevant in the first place, as this universe was like the
"highest" in infinity,
even beyond the edges of Eternity. So it would make sense even if it wasn't a dream, as there shouldn't be anything higher to dream it.
And this is the conclusion Deagon reached in his post-
There you have it. The Macroverse is the direct opposite of the Microverse, which is a micro-universe within the equiverse, which is the normal universe.
The previous question remains, even if you ignore everything I said above, how would the Microverse being the opposite of the Macroverse and somehow existing inside the normal universe prove Sama-D was referring to the Microverse? And Deagon even directly admitted to universes existing between the Microverse and Macroverse, by saying the normal universe/equiverse existed above the former and below the latter. So, did Sama-D miss all those worlds which could be seen as dreams?
Did he miss all the "worlds-within-worlds" mentioned by Dormammu? And more importantly, how would Sama-D be referring to just the Microverse when he said "worlds"(plural)?
Also, I am not arguing for an upgrade, I am arguing for the current statistics to stay.
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