Marvel Cosmology Downgrade

[Beyond_transcending]

LT says beyond space beyond time 16 dimensional space. It's enough to prove, it was talking about 16 dimensional space in spatial sense.

How do you know that?

 

[Panpanpanjeidj]

Then what is 16 dimensions? 16 universes?

 

[Vasco]

A 16 dimensional space is definitely talking about dimensions spatially.
So I agree with @Deagonx @Panpanpanjeidj and @LuciferX any other opinion dosen't really make to me.

 

[LuciferX]

How do you know that?

Beyond Space, Beyond Time, A 16 Dimensional Domain. Here presence so far beyond mortal comprehension.

 

[Robo432343]

there still needs to be superiority between the dimensions ;((

 

[Excellence616]

You only have one valid argument with evidence there, and the rest are just walls off text and don't compile more than one scan beyond the one everyone knows to show that Marvel consistently portrays the Zone as 3D, while @Ultima_Reality argued with several different comics that subspace and Crossroad is an infinite dimensional space (while both is a inner part of the Negative Zone), I even brought proof from other writers to support that.

So making an argument with a bunch of text when in fact this ''has always been portrayed as 3D'' is only based on a single scan against a vast majority of scans is bullshit.

Just giving a suggestion.
If there's a proof of a High 1-B Negative Zone then when Marvel cosmology will be split, there should be one in which it is High 1-B and same with a 3-D Negative Zone .

 

[Panpanpanjeidj]

there still needs to be superiority between the dimensions ;((

Honestly, that's right.
As Marvel fandom said, if the white space where LT and Warlock collide is an overspace, it may not even be a 1-B space. (Of course classic IG can be 1-B.But it seems impossible because there is a mention that IG Warlock is the equivalent of Eternity.)

 

[Beyond_transcending]

Beyond Space, Beyond Time, A 16 Dimensional Domain. Here presence so far beyond mortal comprehension.

That just means that the realm is beyond space-time. How does that mean it's spatial?

 

[Vasco]

16 dimensional domain at the juncture of multiversal Superspace.

 

[Beyond_transcending]

16 dimensional domain at the juncture of multiversal Superspace.

How do we know that its spatial? Because it's called "16 Dimensional"? A number doesn't imply spatial dimensionality since it could just mean 16th realm or something like that.

 

[Vasco]

Why wouldn't it? It's literally clarified to be a higher dimensional space even lessers wouldn't be able to comprehend.

It could mean 16th realm? I find that hard to belief especially how the scan displays it, but do you have proof where such was mentioned asin being called a 16th realm? If you have proof be my guest if not it's just headcanon.

 

[Beyond_transcending]

Why wouldn't it? It's literally clarified to be a higher dimensional space even lessers wouldn't be able to comprehend.

Why would it? That just makes the realm beyond "lessers" comprehension.

It could mean 16th realm? I find that hard to belief especially how the scan displays it, but do you have proof where such was mentioned asin being called a 16th realm? If you have proof be my guest if not it's just headcanon.

I said could. A possibility. Not a claim.

 

[Robo432343]

Why wouldn't it? It's literally clarified to be a higher dimensional space even lessers wouldn't be able to comprehend.

It could mean 16th realm? I find that hard to belief especially how the scan displays it, but do you have proof where such was mentioned asin being called a 16th realm? If you have proof be my guest if not it's just headcanon.

genuinely cant see how it might be referring to something else other than spatial dimensions

 

[Vasco]

Why would it? That just makes the realm beyond "lessers" comprehension.

I said could. A possibility. Not a claim.

And it's stated to be a 16 dimensional superspace, I don't see how someone can interpret that as something else if not it being higher dimensional, if you interpret it as 16 universes I'd have to tell you it makes no sense after everything being laid for us easy to understand in that panel.

Maybe's are nothing more than headcanon.

 

[Beyond_transcending]

And it's stated to be a 16 dimensional superspace, I don't see how someone can interpret that as something else if not it being higher dimensional, if you interpret it as 16 universes I'd have to tell you it makes no sense after everything being laid for us easy to understand in that panel.

Maybe's are nothing more than headcanon.

Than what you're saying is also headcanon since you're assuming that "16-Dimensional" automatically means spatial.

 

[Panpanpanjeidj]

Than what you're saying is also headcanon since you're assuming that "16-Dimensional" automatically means spatial.

Because dimensional is actually a word for spatial things.
Don't try to complicate everything.

 

[Vasco]

Than what you're saying is also headcanon since you're assuming that "16-Dimensional" automatically means spatial.

The entire scan portrays it to be that way and easy to grasp, any other opinion makes 0 sense.

 

[Robo432343]

Than what you're saying is also headcanon since you're assuming that "16-Dimensional" automatically means spatial.

 

[Panpanpanjeidj]

To be honest, it's not over forever.
Someone needs to summarize what's discussed in the thread and then lock this thread (for future Marvel cosmology revision).

 

[Deagonx]

genuinely cant see how it might be referring to something else other than spatial dimensions

Yeah, no one can. They just want to argue so they choose the most obvious things to try and bicker about.

 

[LuciferX]

That just means that the realm is beyond space-time. How does that mean it's spatial?

The main point of this thread to debunk all High 1-B scans, I think it would be better to discuss about 1-B scans and qualitative superiority of dimensions later.

 

[Antvasima]

You only have one valid argument with evidence there, and the rest are just walls off text and don't compile more than one scan beyond the one everyone knows to show that Marvel consistently portrays the Zone as 3D, while @Ultima_Reality argued with several different comics that subspace and Crossroad is an infinite dimensional space (while both is a inner part of the Negative Zone), I even brought proof from other writers to support that.

So making an argument with a bunch of text when in fact this ''has always been portrayed as 3D'' is only based on a single scan against a vast majority of scans is bullshit.

I referenced several stories (with specific issue references) from recent years in which the Negative Zone has been explicitly shown to be a regular-sized universe that borders to the main Marvel universe, and it doesn't make any sense for all Marvel universes to be infinite-dimensional. It would wipe out all tier 2 statistics for all Marvel Comics characters and replace them with High 1-B instead, so we would give every single herald-level character "At least 3-C, likely High 1-B" ratings, for example, which doesn't make any sense whatsoever, regardless how contrived rationalisations we try to use, especially as Marvel Comics has previously clearly established the Negative Zone or the regular universes that it corresponds to as being either 3-dimensional or 4-dimensional, and even Wikipedia lists the Negative Zone as corresponding to a regular universe except for being made of anti-matter.

As such, given that mathematics easily enable higher-dimensional spaces to intersect with lower-dimensional ones, and given that such nexuses have been firmly established to exist for Marvel Comics, including the M'Krann Crystal, Captain Britain's lighthouse, the Crossroads dimension, or the Nexus of Realities, I find it far more logical to interpret this as being the case here as well.

 

[Antvasima]

I legitimately don't understand why you do this, whenever we argue in a civil manner you guys start insulting us.

Well, I apologise if I was being too rude then. I tend to get suspicious if other members seem to repeatedly be too unreasonable/stonewalling and upgrade-hungry in combination.

 

[Transcending]

They just want to argue so they choose the most obvious things to try and bicker about.

What? I never said I agreed with Beyond Transcending, and he didn't say he agreed with me. Not sure why you are grouping us.

Well, I apologise if I was being too rude then. I tend to get suspicious if other members seem to repeatedly be too unreasonable/stonewalling and upgrade-hungry in combination.

Thank you, but I am not really upgrade-hungry, I have argued against higher statistics in the past, such as Superboy-Prime and Rune King Thor. I have also repeatedly argued against Cosmic Armor Superman wank, which even Deagon can confirm. I just generally have higher statistics than him.

 

[Deagonx]

Not sure why you are grouping us.

Because you have the same name, like all of each others comments, and both of you are trying to argue against extremely obvious conclusions. In addition to the fact that you both just got unbanned from your groups vote manipulation behavior.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you, but I am not really upgrade-hungry, I have argued against higher statistics in the past, such as Superboy-Prime and Rune King Thor. I have also repeatedly argued against Cosmic Armor Superman wank, which even Deagon can confirm. I just generally have higher statistics than him.

Okay. That is good then.

 

[Transcending]

Because you have the same name

Not exactly the same, but similar names, and we have similar names because we know each other from off-site. Ik multiple people from here off-site like the OP, @Joshn05 (someone who you yourself are friends with), etc.

like all of each others comments

We haven't liked all of each others' comments no, just most of them. I like a lot of people's comments, not just Beyond Transcending. I generally like those people's comments that I agree with, that are neutral but responded(in a neutral or positive way) to me, or like my own comments.

and both of you are trying to argue against extremely obvious conclusions.

That is subjective.

In addition to the fact that you both just got unbanned

And in the drama, proof was provided we do disagree with each other at times.

Me and Beyond Transcending have multiple disagreements, for example I have DC>Marvel, he has Marvel>DC, I have Perpetua above Phoenix, he has Phoenix above Perpetua, etc.

 

[Transcending]

At this point Deagon is simply attacking us and making poor assumptions, neither of which is what you would call "reasonable".

 

[Beyond_transcending]

Because you have the same name, like all of each others comments, and both of you are trying to argue against extremely obvious conclusions. In addition to the fact that you both just got unbanned from your groups vote manipulation behavior.

...
You're literally just attacking us right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's all drop this bickering and stay on topic please. It likely won't lead anywhere, just waste time and energy.

 

[Transcending]

Let's all drop this bickering and stay on topic please. It likely won't lead anywhere, just waste time and energy.

I 100% agree with this, we just need some staff to evaluate my and Deagon's argument so please call some

 

[Antvasima]

Can each of you first write single explanation posts for all of your relevant arguments here please?

 

[Transcending]

Can each of you first write single explanation posts for all of your relevant arguments here please?

I can but the argument is really short, so I would like to confirm once again if a summary is necessary

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it definitely simplifies things, as I am very tired and have lots of threads to keep track of.

 

[Deagonx]

Can each of you first write single explanation posts for all of your relevant arguments here please?

There's not much of an argument. Each of them is separately arguing something really silly that every other commenter has rejected. The "Macroverse" is just the opposite of the Microverse and the "16-dimensional domain" has 16 spatial dimensions. It's not pertinent to the main thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that seems self-evident based on consistent portrayals throughout Marvel's history, and should not require any massive derailing scaling discussions.

 

[Deagonx]

Yes, that seems self-evident based on consistent portrayals throughout Marvel's history, and should not require any massive derailing scaling discussions.

Thats what everyone else concluded, yeah. Its very self-evident but I'm sure now that they're unbanned we are going to be bombarded with a lot of these types of arguments.

 

[Antvasima]

That unfortunately seems likely, yes. It will be hard to get anything productive done if they keep continuously stonewalling and derailing.

 

[Alonik]

I referenced several stories (with specific issue references) from recent years in which the Negative Zone has been explicitly shown to be a regular-sized universe that borders to the main Marvel universe.

Scans with being 3-D sized, please. Let's not take one word as a rule, let's analyze consistency of scans, if you can collaborate by collecting them to show everyone that would be great.

and it doesn't make any sense for all Marvel universes to be infinite-dimensional. It would wipe out all tier 2 statistics for all Marvel Comics characters and replace them with High 1-B instead, so we would give every single herald-level character "At least 3-C, likely High 1-B" ratings, for example, which doesn't make any sense whatsoever, regardless how contrived rationalisations we try to use, especially as Marvel Comics has previously clearly established the Negative Zone or the regular universes that it corresponds to as being either 3-dimensional or 4-dimensional, and even Wikipedia lists the Negative Zone as corresponding to a regular universe except for being made of anti-matter.

Writing what you think will not change some of the High 1-B cosmologies already shown to be 3-D sized. As such, that is not evidence to show a consistency of the Negative Zone being only 3D. Wikipedia is not a source for SCANS, if that is your source please remove your position already in any instance here in this thread about the Negative Zone. You are the only person who wants to dictate how the Negative Zone works, people bring in several different COSMOLOGIES from several different comics from several different writers with it being bigger than Low 1-C and your only had the excuse is to use Wikipedia or Marvel Database, it is not reliable information based on a in depth analysis of scans and different portrayals between writers, it is just your pure opinion reading a site that informs nothing regarding how we SPLIT and analysis this. If you don't have a vast majority of scans in different cosmologies proving an inconsistency as you speak and scans proving it Ultima's argument will prevail.

As such, given that mathematics easily enable higher-dimensional spaces to intersect with lower-dimensional ones, and given that such nexuses have been firmly established to exist for Marvel Comics, including the M'Krann Crystal, Captain Britain's lighthouse, the Crossroads dimension, or the Nexus of Realities, I find it far more logical to interpret this as being the case here as well.

Prove your point, let's not use an individual interpretation without any analysis with scans proving that the Zone has no dimensionality greater than 5D.

 

[Transcending]

That unfortunately seems likely, yes. It will be hard to get anything productive done if they keep continuously stonewalling and derailing.

Deagon is straw manning my argument, so I ask you to read my stuff before jumping to conclusions.

The "Macroverse"

That's a massive straw man, I asked you to prove the "universes-within-universes" was referring to the Microverse, you said the Microverse is the inverse of Macroverse and I pointed out some errors with your reasoning, but primarily, I was asking you how them being inverse to each other supports your argument. You NEVER answered that. It's a Non-Sequitur.

Thats what everyone else concluded, yeah

Everyone else only disagreed with Beyond Transcending, not me, again, don't group us, I myself don't agree with BT on multiple things and vice versa.