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Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree

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Antvasima said:
We cannot realistically give them a single tiers, as it would scale Ghost Rider, Thor, She-Hulk, Ymir, Iron Man, Knull, and Sentry to Low 1-A. However, we might have found a cheat solution/in-continuity "justification" for their tiering by listing their true forms as Low 1-A and their avatars as sometimes going as low as 3-C or somesuch.
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So would this be an acceptable solution for our scaling for the Celestials? Also, what else do we currently need to do here?
 
Antvasima said:
Can you cite and link to it please?

Back when they were first introduced they could blow up planets, and an Odin-powered Destroyer could cut their arms off, and that was it.

Much later Tom DeFalco upgraded them to higher-dimensional entities that were several degrees of infinity above established as universal scale cosmic cubes.

During the Infinity Gauntlet story, they were again downplayed as minor threats to the collected here merely shown as universal scale Infinity Gems, as they merely attacked by throwing planets at Thanos.

During Heroes Return they were established to be able to create or contain universes within themselves, but that this took a lot of effort for them.

If I remember correctly, During an Eternals comic book storyline, the Celestials were established to be opposed and threatened by something called The Horde, which was essentially a swarm of planet-ravaging insects, and it was stated that they serve The Fulcrum, who was essentially played as an avatar of Jack Kirby.

During Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four run, Doctor Doom was able to endure an energy blast barrage from insane Celestials for 28 minutes, and Galactus was shown to be slightly stronger than individual Celestials when well-fed.

If I remember correctly, during an obscure X-Men story they were mentioned to have used a weapon to change the universe into one where divergent timelines/universes could be created to create a multiverse.

Again if I remember correctly, during a Matt Fraction Defenders maxiseries, it was established that Death Celestials existed and were counteracted by the Omega Council, which was not further explained at the time.

There was also a story in which Kang tricked Thor into offhandedly enchant his axe Jarnborn into being able to kill Celestials, which it did twice during this storyline, when wielded by Kang or his servants. The power of the Hulk and The Sentry were also shown capable of stopping or almost stopping the Celestial Exitar's descent when the latter was larger than the Earth.

During Al Ewing's Ultimates series, it was established that the Celestials were created as servants/servitors by The First Firmament, the original universe, but that a part of them rebelled and detonated a weapon that caused a part of The First Firmament to split off from him and form the first multiverse/second cosmos. They also helped Lifebringer Galactus fight against the servitors (presumably Death Celestials) who still served The First Firmament.

During Jason Aaron's Avengers run, the Celestials were possible to defeat or fight by the Ghost Rider, a giant Iron Man armor, and Thor and She-Hulk enlarged by the blood of Ymir.

During the King in Black storyline, several Celestials were easily defeated by Knull and converted into servant that were in turn beaten by The Sentry.

During one of Al Ewing's Defenders miniseries, it was revealed that the Omega Council are Beyonders, and that all Beyonders were created by the Celestials, but that they are more powerful than their creators.

During the recent Day of Judgement event, a single Celestial was able to easily defeat Thor via hax rather than raw power, and was shown to be able to blow up the planet Earth.

That is pretty much it. The Celestials certainly haven't ever explicitly displayed a scale of power anywhere near infinite degrees of infinity on their own, but some sort of weapon of theirs seems to have partially shattered The First Firmament, and Death Celestials/Aspirants were able to fight Lifebringer Galactus. Then again, Lifebringer Galactus was not ever shown at anywhere near a Low 1-A power level either, and Ego the Living Planet was also able to fight the Servitors.
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See here for a summarised overview of their portrayals over the years.
 
Also, given recent revelations in Al Ewing's Defenders storylines, should we mention that the Infinity Gems seem to have been created when the Second Cosmos/First Marvel multiverse committed suicide, which fits very well with what Jim Starlin originally established in the Infinity Gauntlet story.
 
Antvasima said:
So did we decide which of the feats that are genuinely reliable to scale from here? I would appreciate further help in that regard.

At the very least, the Beyonder measuring the Hulk's power as infinite, and Hyperion enduring being in the center of two universes getting destroyed seem very straigthforward.
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We seem to still need to decide which regular superhero and supervillain characters that should be upgraded to tier 2-C.
 
Antvasima said:
We seem to still need to decide which regular superhero and supervillain characters that should be upgraded to tier 2-C.
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Thor (Marvel Comics) - Already accepted
Hercules (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
Sentry = Already accepted
Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
Hulk (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
Beta Ray Bill = Already accepted
Apocalypse (Marvel Comics) = Only has 3-C scaling which comes from an enraged Young Thor and Jane Foster Thor
Namor (Marvel Comics) = Disagree
Juggernaut (Marvel Comics) = He has a Varies that doesn't depend on himself and only fought Thor on Earth.
Colossus (Marvel Comics) = Disagree
Emma Frost = Disagree
Red Hulk = Disagree,
Loki (Marvel Comics) (Classic) = Agree for his magic
She-Hulk = Disagree
Onslaught = Agree, Hulk was apparently at his peak or close to it
The Champion of the Universe = Agree for Power Stone key, defeated two of the 2-Cs here and overpowered Thanos
Cyclops (Marvel Comics) = Some of his keys only have feats against Weakened Thor on Earth, but the 1/2 PF is absolutely enough to scale
Red She-Hulk = Her only scaling is to Devil Hulk, who has a Varies mechanism and is usually only 5-B, so that's a no
Magik (Marvel Comics) = Disagree
Ego the Living Planet - Quite directly stated to be above Thor by himself, agree
Mindless Ones (Marvel) = Agree, harming Ego puts them above Thor
Latveria = Wielding the Power Cosmic alone isn't enough for 2-C
Kobik = Doesn't scale to any 2-C
Maestro = Agree, same as The Hulk
Jormungand (Marvel Comics) - Consistently scales to peak Thor. For example, in Thor Vol 1 #278, Thor was only able to weaken the Serpent, not kill it, while striking it multiple times, and one of those blows was stated to be possibly be greater than any blow Thor has struck before
Godzilla (Marvel Comics) = Equal to Jormungand and Hercules put in immense effort to overpower a stomp to save his ally
Wakanda (Marvel Comics) = Scaling to Silver Surfer's max power, so I guess so
Drax the Destroyer (Marvel Comics) = Disagree for current self, his Classic self should have a "Likely 2-C at peak" considering his Thanos scaling, I wouldn't use his SS scaling since Norrin wasn't fighting at peak (Didn't had a reason to as well)
Genis-Vell = Agree, not that complicated
Ultron (Marvel Comics) = His first key may or may not scale, his second key scales to Sentry, so I guess it's okay if he was at peak mental condition, his third key is scaled to Adam Warlock's third key I think, who scales to Silver Surfer, should be enough for a "2-C at peak" if Norrin was going all out
Kurse (Waziria) = Does not have consistent and reliable 2-C scaling
Iron Man Armor Model 37 = Disagree, it's scaling to Mokk who doesn't scale to Peak Thor
Doctor Doom = Numerous scalings to other 2-Cs and scaling to even stuff beyond that, absolutely agree
Executioner (Marvel Comics) = Overpowers BRB, so he should scale
Daimon Hellstrom (Marvel Comics) = Seems fine, has numerous scalings against already accepted 2-Cs
Satana Hellstrom (Marvel Comics) = Already is 2-C
Jane Foster (Marvel Comics) = Her 1st key does not have consistent and reliable 2-C scaling, her 2nd key shouldn't have "2-C at peak" since Thor wasn't at his best
Cassandra Nova (Marvel Comics) = Her scaling is only a Possibly already, so I also Disagree
Exodus (Marvel Comics) = Isn't 3-C to begin with
Galactus (Marvel Comics) - Unsure since he has a 2-C key, but his 3-C one does seem to be superior to anything SS and Thor can try (Except the God Blast)
Odin (Marvel Comics) - Unnecessary, already starts at 3-C and goes up to 2-A
Terrax - Should be fine if he is equal to all SS's powers
Gladiator (Marvel Comics) - Doesn't scale, fought Eric Masterson Thor (who is way weaker than Thor Odinson) and got stomped by Thor when he stopped holding back + said that he was too strong
Wolverine (Marvel Comics) - Mainly has feats against Thor on Earth, non peak Hulk, so no. He does have scaling to Thanos, but in that feat, Thanos was limiting himself so that everybody could match him, from Cap level characters to Thor level characters, so also no
Zeus (Marvel Comics) - Same as Odin
Ghost Rider (Marvel Comics) - He should scale to Mephisto who's "3-C, 2-C at peak" when Unrestricted, however I think when a Ghost Rider defeated Mephisto, he was in Hell, so a straight 2-C rating for GR isn't really inconsistent, he also defeated Thor
Stardust - Same as Terrax
Blade (Marvel Comics) - It's only with a gun and Cosmic Ghost Rider holds back a lot
Surtur (Marvel Comics) - Same as Odin
Storm (Marvel Comics) - SS wasn't going all out and she lacks more feats against High Tier Heralds, so I disagree
Cosmo (Marvel) - I... guess? SS being afraid of him should be counting on his peak powers
The Destroyer (Marvel Comics) - Still up for discussion: While there are some fights between Thor and Beyonder being on Earth, that doesn't necessarily prevent it from scaling to 2-C
The Beyonders - Agree, shouldn't be that hard to argue for them as they literally overpowered Thor and Hyperion on space
Beast (Marvel Comics) - I guess so? Ego surely scales and his gun has a scaling to him
Hope Summers - Her scaling is to Dark Phoenix Cyclops which was okay, so I agree
X-23 - Same as Wolverine
Mephisto (Marvel Comics) - Already talked about him when agreed with Ghost Rider
Mangog (Marvel Comics) - Throughout his showings, he consistently overpowers a peak Thor (He should have a note that his portrayal in the Death of the Mighty Thor arc involves a LOT of Plot-Induced Stupidity, such as his death to the Sun)
Gorr the God Butcher - His first key apparently should stay at only 3-C, but his other two should scale to peak Thor quite directly
Old King Thor - Should receive 2-C rating scaling from other versions of Gorr

Hela (Marvel Comics) - Already has 2-C
Black Knight (Marvel Comics) - Can someone confirm for me if those feats against Thor are on Earth/Near Earth? If yes, then breaking the Force Field is probably only 3-C
Sabretooth (Marvel Comics) - Same as Wolverine
Dreadpool - Well I guess he should scale going by list of victims, it should be "3-C to 2-C with Weaponry and Preparation"
Old Man Logan - Same as his other self
Marduk Kurios - Already has 2-C
Cosmic Ghost Rider - He matched a few heralds but has some anti feats like matching Groot in battle, who lacks good feats against Peak Heralds to scale consistently, so I disagree with him having the 2-C rating
Nyx (Marvel Comics) - Disagree, mainly because she already scales to Zeus and apparently could only defeat his base power
Red Ronin - Agree, scales to Godzilla
Thanos (Marvel Comics) - While he may lack Universal level feats in his base form, he overpowered Peak Heralds consistently over the years, including serious versions of Thor and SS. Also, his 3-A key should be upgraded to plain 2-C considering he is stronger than his base's peak power, which should be 2-C after this CRT
Magus (Marvel Comics) - I dunno much about the character, but Thanos didn't seemed to be going all out against him. His other scaling is to Nova, who in turn scales to Quasar, who... lacks a profile apparently?
Yetrigar - Also scales to Godzilla
Batragon - Also scales to Godzilla
Ghilaron - Also scales to Godzilla
Lepirax - Also scales to Godzilla
Centipor - Also scales to Godzilla
The Beta-Beast - Also scales to Godzilla
Triax - Also scales to Godzilla
Rhiahn - Also scales to Godzilla
Krollar - Also scales to Godzilla
Groot (Marvel Comics) - Both of his scaling shouldn't receive the 2-C rating, so I disagree
Challenger (Marvel Comics) - Maybe? His fight against Hulk is good but his scaling to characters like Jane Foster and Rogue puts his 2-C rating in check, considering Hulk's variable power, I think I disagree
Impossible Man - SS didn't seemed to be at his absolute peak
Firelord - Same as SS I guess?
Pluto (Marvel Comics) - Already has 2-C
Air-Walker - Same as SS, I guess?
Iron Man Armor Model 22 - While it fought Thor on Earth, the armour directly powered by a gem that channels Mjolnir’s power, and it was able to absorb and redirect Thor’s powers back at him, so it probably scales
Man-Beast - I dunno, what version of Adam Warlock he scales?
Satannish - Already has a 2-C rating
Mjolnir (Marvel Comics) - While Thor's 2-C feats mainly come from him, I don't see why Mjolnir shouldn't scale since Thor uses it in most of his fights (including 2-C occasions) and it has a Varies rating
Voyager (Marvel Comics) - If she doesn't even scale to their MFTL+ ratings I doubt she should scale to their peak AP
Seth (Marvel Comics) - I guess his current scaling to Thor was already accepted at just 3-C since other keys have higher feats like 3-B
Possessor (Marvel Comics) - Dunno much about the character, but Hercules seems to be casual
Avengers (1960s Team) - Should scale since it has both Thor and Hulk
The Sentry (The Age of the Sentry) - Should scale to 616 Sentry? If so, then yeah I agree
 
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Antvasima said:
However, as I mentioned above, it seems like we have likely found a "cheat" solution/explanation to this problem if it really has been explictly stated (in Fantastic Four issue 400) that they create much weaker avatars to interact with lower levels of reality.
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So maybe something like this?
“2-A | Low 1-A, 1-A with weapons"

“Avatars | True form"
 
So the sandbox says that Doom has "numerous" scalings to 2-C, yet the only non-rejected one seems to be him giving Terrax an artificial Power Cosmic he made that is stated to be equal to the Silver Surfer.
 
Excel616 said:
Thor (Marvel Comics) - Already accepted
Hercules (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
Sentry = Already accepted
Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
Hulk (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
Beta Ray Bill = Already accepted
Apocalypse (Marvel Comics) = Only has 3-C scaling which comes from an enraged Young Thor and Jane Foster Thor
Namor (Marvel Comics) = Disagree
Juggernaut (Marvel Comics) = He has a Varies that doesn't depend on himself and only fought Thor on Earth.
Colossus (Marvel Comics) = Disagree
Emma Frost = Disagree
Red Hulk = Disagree,
Loki (Marvel Comics) (Classic) = Agree for his magic
She-Hulk = Disagree
Onslaught = Agree, Hulk was apparently at his peak or close to it
The Champion of the Universe = Agree for Power Stone key, defeated two of the 2-Cs here and overpowered Thanos
Cyclops (Marvel Comics) = Some of his keys only have feats against Weakened Thor on Earth, but the 1/2 PF is absolutely enough to scale
Red She-Hulk = Her only scaling is to Devil Hulk, who has a Varies mechanism and is usually only 5-B, so that's a no
Magik (Marvel Comics) = Disagree
Ego the Living Planet - Quite directly stated to be above Thor by himself, agree
Mindless Ones (Marvel) = Agree, harming Ego puts them above Thor
Latveria = Wielding the Power Cosmic alone isn't enough for 2-C
Kobik = Doesn't scale to any 2-C
Maestro = Agree, same as The Hulk
Jormungand (Marvel Comics) - Consistently scales to peak Thor. For example, in Thor Vol 1 #278, Thor was only able to weaken the Serpent, not kill it, while striking it multiple times, and one of those blows was stated to be possibly be greater than any blow Thor has struck before
Godzilla (Marvel Comics) = Equal to Jormungand and Hercules put in immense effort to overpower a stomp to save his ally
Wakanda (Marvel Comics) = Scaling to Silver Surfer's max power, so I guess so
Drax the Destroyer (Marvel Comics) = Disagree for current self, his Classic self should have a "Likely 2-C at peak" considering his Thanos scaling, I wouldn't use his SS scaling since Norrin wasn't fighting at peak (Didn't had a reason to as well)
Genis-Vell = Agree, not that complicated
Ultron (Marvel Comics) = His first key may or may not scale, his second key scales to Sentry, so I guess it's okay if he was at peak mental condition, his third key is scaled to Adam Warlock's third key I think, who scales to Silver Surfer, should be enough for a "2-C at peak" if Norrin was going all out
Kurse (Waziria) = Does not have consistent and reliable 2-C scaling
Iron Man Armor Model 37 = Disagree, it's scaling to Mokk who doesn't scale to Peak Thor
Doctor Doom = Numerous scalings to other 2-Cs and scaling to even stuff beyond that, absolutely agree
Executioner (Marvel Comics) = Overpowers BRB, so he should scale
Daimon Hellstrom (Marvel Comics) = Seems fine, has numerous scalings against already accepted 2-Cs
Satana Hellstrom (Marvel Comics) = Already is 2-C
Jane Foster (Marvel Comics) = Her 1st key does not have consistent and reliable 2-C scaling, her 2nd key shouldn't have "2-C at peak" since Thor wasn't at his best
Cassandra Nova (Marvel Comics) = Her scaling is only a Possibly already, so I also Disagree
Exodus (Marvel Comics) = Isn't 3-C to begin with
Galactus (Marvel Comics) - Unsure since he has a 2-C key, but his 3-C one does seem to be superior to anything SS and Thor can try (Except the God Blast)
Odin (Marvel Comics) - Unnecessary, already starts at 3-C and goes up to 2-A
Terrax - Should be fine if he is equal to all SS's powers
Gladiator (Marvel Comics) - Doesn't scale, fought Eric Masterson Thor (who is way weaker than Thor Odinson) and got stomped by Thor when he stopped holding back + said that he was too strong
Wolverine (Marvel Comics) - Mainly has feats against Thor on Earth, non peak Hulk, so no. He does have scaling to Thanos, but in that feat, Thanos was limiting himself so that everybody could match him, from Cap level characters to Thor level characters, so also no
Zeus (Marvel Comics) - Same as Odin
Ghost Rider (Marvel Comics) - He should scale to Mephisto who's "3-C, 2-C at peak" when Unrestricted, however I think when a Ghost Rider defeated Mephisto, he was in Hell, so a straight 2-C rating for GR isn't really inconsistent, he also defeated Thor
Stardust - Same as Terrax
Blade (Marvel Comics) - It's only with a gun and Cosmic Ghost Rider holds back a lot
Surtur (Marvel Comics) - Same as Odin
Storm (Marvel Comics) - SS wasn't going all out and she lacks more feats against High Tier Heralds, so I disagree
Cosmo (Marvel) - I... guess? SS being afraid of him should be counting on his peak powers
The Destroyer (Marvel Comics) - Still up for discussion: While there are some fights between Thor and Beyonder being on Earth, that doesn't necessarily prevent it from scaling to 2-C
The Beyonders - Agree, shouldn't be that hard to argue for them as they literally overpowered Thor and Hyperion on space
Beast (Marvel Comics) - I guess so? Ego surely scales and his gun has a scaling to him
Hope Summers - Her scaling is to Dark Phoenix Cyclops which was okay, so I agree
X-23 - Same as Wolverine
Mephisto (Marvel Comics) - Already talked about him when agreed with Ghost Rider
Mangog (Marvel Comics) - Throughout his showings, he consistently overpowers a peak Thor (He should have a note that his portrayal in the Death of the Mighty Thor arc involves a LOT of Plot-Induced Stupidity, such as his death to the Sun)
Gorr the God Butcher - His first key apparently should stay at only 3-C, but his other two should scale to peak Thor quite directly
Old King Thor - Should receive 2-C rating scaling from other versions of Gorr

Hela (Marvel Comics) - Already has 2-C
Black Knight (Marvel Comics) - Can someone confirm for me if those feats against Thor are on Earth/Near Earth? If yes, then breaking the Force Field is probably only 3-C
Sabretooth (Marvel Comics) - Same as Wolverine
Dreadpool - Well I guess he should scale going by list of victims, it should be "3-C to 2-C with Weaponry and Preparation"
Old Man Logan - Same as his other self
Marduk Kurios - Already has 2-C
Cosmic Ghost Rider - He matched a few heralds but has some anti feats like matching Groot in battle, who lacks good feats against Peak Heralds to scale consistently, so I disagree with him having the 2-C rating
Nyx (Marvel Comics) - Disagree, mainly because she already scales to Zeus and apparently could only defeat his base power
Red Ronin - Agree, scales to Godzilla
Thanos (Marvel Comics) - While he may lack Universal level feats in his base form, he overpowered Peak Heralds consistently over the years, including serious versions of Thor and SS. Also, his 3-A key should be upgraded to plain 2-C considering he is stronger than his base's peak power, which should be 2-C after this CRT
Magus (Marvel Comics) - I dunno much about the character, but Thanos didn't seemed to be going all out against him. His other scaling is to Nova, who in turn scales to Quasar, who... lacks a profile apparently?
Yetrigar - Also scales to Godzilla
Batragon - Also scales to Godzilla
Ghilaron - Also scales to Godzilla
Lepirax - Also scales to Godzilla
Centipor - Also scales to Godzilla
The Beta-Beast - Also scales to Godzilla
Triax - Also scales to Godzilla
Rhiahn - Also scales to Godzilla
Krollar - Also scales to Godzilla
Groot (Marvel Comics) - Both of his scaling shouldn't receive the 2-C rating, so I disagree
Challenger (Marvel Comics) - Maybe? His fight against Hulk is good but his scaling to characters like Jane Foster and Rogue puts his 2-C rating in check, considering Hulk's variable power, I think I disagree
Impossible Man - SS didn't seemed to be at his absolute peak
Firelord - Same as SS I guess?
Pluto (Marvel Comics) - Already has 2-C
Air-Walker - Same as SS, I guess?
Iron Man Armor Model 22 - While it fought Thor on Earth, the armour directly powered by a gem that channels Mjolnir’s power, and it was able to absorb and redirect Thor’s powers back at him, so it probably scales
Man-Beast - I dunno, what version of Adam Warlock he scales?
Satannish - Already has a 2-C rating
Mjolnir (Marvel Comics) - While Thor's 2-C feats mainly come from him, I don't see why Mjolnir shouldn't scale since Thor uses it in most of his fights (including 2-C occasions) and it has a Varies rating
Voyager (Marvel Comics) - If she doesn't even scale to their MFTL+ ratings I doubt she should scale to their peak AP
Seth (Marvel Comics) - I guess his current scaling to Thor was already accepted at just 3-C since other keys have higher feats like 3-B
Possessor (Marvel Comics) - Dunno much about the character, but Hercules seems to be casual
Avengers (1960s Team) - Should scale since it has both Thor and Hulk
The Sentry (The Age of the Sentry) - Should scale to 616 Sentry? If so, then yeah I agree
Click to expand...
This mostly seems fine to me, but the original Kurse and The Destroyer are explicitly supposed to be more powerful than base level Thor, so they should scale. The Waziria version of Kurse is supposedly roughly as powerful as the original version, even though she never displayed it.

Also, the Celestial-amplified version of She-Hulk was stated to be more powerful than base level Thor by Thor himself, and Thanos did not lessen his base power level during the Infinity Gauntlet saga. He simply stayed at his base power level or just a bit above it, combined with using some of the extra reality-warping powers granted by the Infinity Gems, so Wolverine's claws unfortunately likely scale, even though it is an enormous case of consistent plot-induced stupidity.

As for Thanos' cosmic cube key, it genuinely only did reach tier 3-A, as Jim Starlin views and portrays the Marvel Comics characters as far less powerful than quite a lot of writers, so we might have to remove the key due to inconsistencies with later portrayals, in lack of better options.

The Impossible Man was able to turn into an entire planet full of superheroes that parodied and copied the originals in an Excalibur story, so he is actually quite powerful.

Cosmo is just a dog with very powerful telepathy. He shouldn't have anywhere near the raw power of the Silver Surfer, but writers tend to have fun with the inherent silliness of the character at times.

The Maestro was almost never portrayed at a very high level of power. The Abomination, Namor, and Ulik have been serious threats to him, Hercules stomped him, the Silver Surfer viewed him as a joke, and Old Man Logan decapitated him. Then again, Al Ewing showed him barely defeating The Grandmaster who was further amplified by an external power source.
 
LordTracer said:
Can we stop talking about the Celestials? They have literally nothing to do with this thread. At this point, I’ll revise them myself.
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Given that we have already discussed a lot of basics for their tiering here, I would prefer if we continue after we have finished with the main purpose of this thread.
 
Antvasima said:
the original Kurse and The Destroyer are explicitly supposed to be more powerful than base level Thor, so they should scale.
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I don't mind this
Antvasima said:
The Waziria version of Kurse is supposedly roughly as powerful as the original version, even though she never displayed it.
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Why would she be as powerful as the original?
Antvasima said:
Also, the Celestial-amplified version of She-Hulk was stated to be more powerful than base level Thor by Thor himself
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Where? Can I see the scan?
Antvasima said:
Thanos did not lessen his base power level during the Infinity Gauntlet saga. He simply stayed at his base power level or just a bit above it, combined with using some of the extra reality-warping powers granted by the Infinity Gems, so Wolverine's claws unfortunately likely scale, even though it is an enormous case of consistent plot-induced stupidity.
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Alright then
 
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MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer said:
I don't mind this
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Thank you.
MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer said:
Why would she be as powerful as the original?
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Didn't Jason Aaron retcon Kurse's Beyonder-amplified power as not being integral to himself, but simply his armor, and then had Malekith transfer it to Waziria and treat Algrim/the original Kurse in a horribly degrading manner in the process.

(It obviously isn't exactly a secret from Jason Aaron's entire backlog of work that he has an extremely sick, filthy, and depraved mind, and has nothing whatsoever of value to offer the rest of humanity.)
MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer said:
Where?
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In an issue of the Avengers. Thor stated that she could literally rip him apart during one of their romantic moments, as far as I recall.

This version of She-Hulk also matched or outmatched a herald of Galactus, if I do not misremember.

I personally actually like the idea of the sensational She-Hulk and Thor being in a relationship, as they are two of my favourite Marvel Comics characters, but not the complete mischaracterisation that she was turned into after the Civil War II series.
MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer said:
Alright then
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Thank you.
 
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Excel616 said:
The statement surrounding celestial amplified she hulk kind of look somehow as that same she hulk was stated to generate energy more than what hulk ''has ever produce''
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Yes, there was that issue as well.

The only thing that I liked with that version was that she was powered up enough to get some respect in that regard, but they should have done that with the Sensational She-Hulk incarnation instead. She is arguably the genuinely nicest Marvel Comics character around.
 
Antvasima said:
Didn't Jason Aaron retcon Kurse's power as not being kntegral to himself, but simply his armor, and then had Malekith transfer it to Waziria and treat Algrim/the original Kurse in a horribly degrading manner in the process.
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I don't read a lot of Jason Aaron's works anymore because of how shitty they are, so I'm not sure
Antvasima said:
(It obviously isn't exactly a secret from Jason Aaron's entire backlog of work that he has an extremely sick, filthy, and depraved mind, and has nothing whatsoever of value to offer the rest of humanity.)
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BASED
Antvasima said:
In an issue of the Avengers. Thor stated that she could literally rip him apart during one of their romantic moments, as far as I recall.
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Eww romance. Thor's statement was "a jade giantess who could seemingly tear [him] asunder with her bare hands if she so desired". So unless you're referring to another one, I really don't think it is all that viable.
Antvasima said:
This version of She-Hulk also matched or outmatched a herald of Galactus, if I do not misremember.
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Could be viable 3-C scaling
 
Well, Thor strongly respecting the Celestial-amplified She-Hulk's raw power, her matching a herald of Galactus, being able to almost match the Devil Hulk, produce explosions supposedly beyond him, and plowing through the Invisible Woman's force fields without even noticing their existence, does strongly hint that she did reach a 2-C scale of power when sufficiently angry.

As for Waziria/"Kurse", she does not seem to be a sufficiently significant character, or to have coherent enough scaling feats, to include in this wiki in the first place, so we should probably delete her page.
 
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Antvasima said:
Well, Thor strongly respecting the Celestial-amplified She-Hulk's raw power, her matching a herald of Galactus, being able to almost match the Devil Hulk, produce explosions supposedly beyond him, and plowing through the Invisible Woman's force fields without even noticing their existence, does strongly hint that she did reach a 2-C scale of power when sufficiently angry.
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Yeah. It should probably be fine
Antvasima said:
As for Waziria/"Kurse", she does not seem to be a sufficiently significant character, or to have coherent enough scaling feats, to include in this wiki in the first place, so we should probanly delete her page.
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Sure thing
 
Thank you.

Is that fine with the rest of you as well?
 
Antvasima said:
Well, Thor strongly respecting the Celestial-amplified She-Hulk's raw power, her matching a herald of Galactus, being able to almost match the Devil Hulk, produce explosions supposedly beyond him, and plowing through the Invisible Woman's force fields without even noticing their existence, does strongly hint that she did reach a 2-C scale of power when sufficiently angry.
Click to expand...
But well, it should be clearly stated that she was amplified by eson because normally she hulk can't reach that level. But she shouldn't scale to hulk.🤔😤
 
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Thor gets a “3-C, up to 2-C at peak”
Some heralds scale, some dont

I am thinking about making an infinite sized Marvel Universe thread before we go through with this upgrade is that fine?
 
NHTkenshin2 said:
Thor gets a “3-C, up to 2-C at peak”
Some heralds scale, some dont

I am thinking about making an infinite sized Marvel Universe thread before we go through with this upgrade is that fine?
Click to expand...
I am not sure, given that the Marvel universe has a very inconsistent size depending on the storyline. Sometimes it is infinite and sometimes it is finite.
 
Why would Surfer's lifting strength scale off of Hercules' LS? Right now he's scaled off of his own LS feat, and I'm not aware of any reason his lifting strength would scale to Thor/Hulk/Herc/etc. Also, will Thor's lifting strength be "Infinite, Immeasurable via overexertion"?
 
Ehnkr2beboh said:
Why would Surfer's lifting strength scale off of Hercules' LS? Right now he's scaled off of his own LS feat, and I'm not aware of any reason his lifting strength would scale to Thor/Hulk/Herc/etc.
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True. I guess he doesn't scale
Ehnkr2beboh said:
Also, will Thor's lifting strength be "Infinite, Immeasurable via overexertion"?
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I guess so
 
Antvasima said:
I am not sure, given that the Marvel universe has a very inconsistent size depending on the storyline. Sometimes it is infinite and sometimes it is finite.
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I will cover both, but can you please (if you dont mind) list all the times the marvel universe has been treated as finite?
 
Well, I don't know all of them off the top of my head, but I think that we already currently scale it from a mention of it being a specific size (1 trillion lightyears?), and most recently, in Dan Slott's Reckoning War event, it was firmly established as being finite as well, and 1 tenth its original size due to an old cosmic war, but it was restored to full size by Uatu the Watcher in the end.
 
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