Marvel Comics: Possible Yggdrasil Upgrade - Part 4

[Antvasima]

So is it fine if I apply the text below to Rune King Thor?

"At least Multiverse level+, likely Low Complex Multiverse level (Killed Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, who were explicitly stated to be as powerful compared to the Asgardians as they are to mortals)"

Also, can somebody find and upload the scans where this was stated please?

 

[Clint2005]

Everyone is a part of Eternity dude.
I never said he knows nothing, I said he doesn't fully comprehend it.

Mikaboshi was destroying (or gonna destroy) the multiverse, not full of Multi Eternity (which encompasses more than just the multiverse.

And funny how no one is going to answer why being outide means you can destroy the multiverse.

Did you read the thread ?
Especially the part that Obvilion itself confirms that chaos king almost destroyed the whole multiverse. The divine dimensions where the creation was give birth was absorved by him , some of these dimensions are Otherworld (Celtic gods home and where Roma monitore all omniverse) and Othervoid (dimension where the ennead reside and it's don't have time and space).

Specially somegods of ennead who came before creation and represent the absence of meaning and embodiment of nothing. And they aren't the only ones with that citation.

How the gods don't know about eternity if some of them are older than it ?

Nice strawman right there buddy.

Me: Odin doesn't fully comperehend Multi-Eternity

Luck: Some gods are older than creation.

Yeah cuz my point was "no god undertsands Multi-Eternity" (sarcasm).

 

[Alonik]

@Antvasima No. Just to remember, there are several aknowledgeable members who still support the 1-A ratting, and the most members cannot comment here due to the current pandemic. This conclusion is a minor conclusion.

 

[Driger-God]

@Antvasima

Odin(Weakened) can affect every plane of existence(Considering that this is only "universes") This is 2-A feat(Exist an infinite number of planes of existences) - And in many moments, Asgardians are showed coming from higher dimension(higher plane, as I showed in my last comment), even that be an higher dimensional being isn't scale the Asgardians, this scale Odin with: "Odin created Asgard Dimension, and can contain Surtur that can destroy Asgardians Nine Realm and Asgard itself that is higher plane". In classic Thor has some mentions about Midgard be a "Lower Realm" and Asgard be a "Higher Realm", and some map of Yggdrasil showed Asgard as a "Heaven Above" midgard.

 

[Clint2005]

Updating Yggdrasil, Odin and higher beings to 2-A would be the best anyway. Yggdrasil connects infinite universes, it is what comics dictate. Here, here and here it is pretty clearly shown. This isn't all I've got for 2-A Yggdrasil anyway, these are just examples.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

I believe it should be 2-A for now and then we should discuss 1-A after the forum shift.

 

[Clint2005]

This forum is losing its purpose anyway.

 

[Driger-God]

Updating Yggdrasil, Odin and higher beings to 2-A would be the best anyway. Yggdrasil connects infinite universes, it is what comics dictate.
Here, here and here it is pretty clearly shown. This isn't all I've got for 2-A Yggdrasil anyway, these are just examples.

I believe that Yggdrasin, and Odin could be Low 1-C Considering that Asgard exist an higher plane(Some mentions about multi-dimensional system of Gods are about more of 10D), 2-A considering only "Universes", and Low 1-C considering that higher planes. Yggdrasil: At Least 2-A, likely Low 1-C

 

[Driger-God]

I believe that Yggdrasil is all multiverse.
In other moment, with a blog and better revision, upgrade to higher level. But scale RKThor, and Gods of Gods to 2-C|2-A only is nonsense, when you saw that them exist outside Marvel-Multiverse. This isn't debatable.

 

[Antvasima]

There are too many staff and highly knowledgeable members who strongly disagree with 1-A for it to ever be accepted. You are relentlessly wasting all of our time, and should accept the compromise solution instead of being unreasonably upgrade-hungry.

 

[Alonik]

Be more respectfull with the people who cannot comment here, as me @Ant. The thread is here and we can see who is in the agree side and in the opposite side.

If you can't respect the ausence of the most members which has IRL problems, sorry. But no one will accept your compromise that only was put after promises of responsible answers to kepekley text that have not been met.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Marvel Fans only know about 5% of MArvel but I am an enlightened fan who truly understands the franchise which means I am the only one who is correct when I unironically talk about 1-A Thor."

 

[Driger-God]

"Marvel Fans only know about 5% of MArvel but I am an enlightened fan who truly understands the franchise which means I am the only one who is correct when I unironically talk about 1-A Thor."

Ui ui ui

 

[Antvasima]

Again, this is never ever going to be accepted, given the extremely strong opposition against it, and the same as you say about Kepekley23 goes with the absense of PrinceOfTheMorning and ClassicNESfan. I would strongly suggest that you stop relentlessly pestering us about this neverending extremely tiresome argument in a fanatic war of attrition, permanently drop the subject, and accept the compromise. It is that or nothing. Take it or leave it.

 

[Alonik]

No one will accept in the agree side. Take it or leave it. But i will not comment here for some time, and yet the most members are in agree, not only the people who you think that are acknowledge when befits you.

 

[GrathOfLux]

This is bordering on just throwing insults back and forth at this point.

Everyone just needs to figure out how to talk about things civilly; it's not that bloody hard unless both sides desperately try to push how they think the other side is a bunch of idiots.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No one will accept in the agree side. Take it or leave it. But i will not comment here for some time, and yet the most members are in agree, not only the people who you think that are acknowledge when befits you.

Irrelevant, it's not going to be accepted. We are trying to be nice by giving a compromise of wanking Rune King Thor to Low 1-C based on vague statements when in actuality he has 0 objective feats on that level.

But if you are unable to understand democracy and compromise, and cannot accept anything except having your way absolutely 100% of the time, then maybe it's best not to give the character any upgrade whatsoever.

 

[Alonik]

I'm only asking him to stop forcing decisions that only he and some people on the opposite side are working on. Since most members on the supporting side cannot comment here due to the pandemic. Kepekley even posted an ad that he cannot be activy on the wiki. @Ant is trying to force a consensus that only his side has arrived.

 

[Driger-God]

Matthew need stop with provocations in this thread, what I said isn't to none here. But he can stop with provocations? Analyze

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm only asking him to stop forcing decisions that only he and some people on the opposite side are working on. Since most members on the supporting side cannot comment here due to the pandemic. Kepekley even posted an ad that he cannot be activy on the wiki. @Ant is trying to force a consensus that only his side has arrived.

I strongly doubt that the reason people haven't shown support is because of Corona-chan, because all you need to do to comment here is to have a home and a working internet connection, it's not an activity that requires you to go outside. Either these people have lost investment or just don't agree with you anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, most of the insults have been thrown by the 1-A squadron, and our most knowledgeable members have systematically disagreed, but eventually grew too exhausted to continue to deal with this. Most staff have disagreed as well. This really is just a relentlessly unreasonable war of attrition at this point.

I am personally sick and tired of this neverending argument, and would much prefer to permanently close this thread.

Which members are fine with if I upgrade Rune King Thor in the manner that I just mentioned?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, the 1-A side has thrown far more severe insults than Matthew during this entire debacle. He has mostly just been testy at times, and even my patience has reached an end for this nonsense.

 

[Alonik]

But if you are unable to understand democracy and compromise, and cannot accept anything except having your way absolutely 100% of the time, then maybe it's best not to give the character any upgrade whatsoever.

Democracy and compromise is to respect both sides, like when the supporting side waited for you to write a decent text for 1 month because of IRL problems, and in the end you were unable to write nothing but jokes and provocations.

Imagine just calling yourself democratic and committed, when you only have the guts to force ideas when people can't comment here due to IRL problems.

This thread should not be concluded for now, be more respectfull with the others members who asked to wait due to IRL problems like everyone did when you are in need. Stop forcing your own consensus and color name to put down the thread.

 

[Driger-God]

@Antvasima This isn't motive to insult me or someone here. This insults or provocations are part of problem in this thread, and must stop. The side isn't is important. You know!

 

[Antvasima]

I haven't used any name-calling. I am just extremely sick and tired of this, after explaining over and over that according to our rules we don't remotely have a staff consensus for applying such an extreme change, and that the best you can hope for is a compromise, but you are being so completely unreasonable that any compromise whatsoever is unacceptable to you.

 

[Luck100]

They protect the core of all creation and sme of them exist in the highest planes of reality and even know the plane of the TOAA. But they don't know about "omniversal" eternity ?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

no quoting walls of text

 

[Driger-God]

@Antvasima
You don't insult me(You ignore my comments about possibility of 2-A / Low 1-C, even disagreeing of this, for now is enough), but others make provocations.
And you are supporting this kind of insult or provocation. As what Matthew made now and before. Impartiality to both sides, not only to who agree with you.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

Which members are fine with if I upgrade Rune King Thor in the manner that I just mentioned?

Knowledgable members or members in general? I'm fine/for with Low 1-C if it's general users.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Although, I agree Classic and Matt as well, I really cannot stress enough that Kepekley nor Ultima or anyone supporting them are going to drop this unless at the very least their ultimate rebuttal is another 30 paragraph long research paper that addresses each and every single point much like how Kepekley put it.

Yeah, pretty much this. From what I've seen, what happened was that Matt brought up a topic that was basically dropped several threads ago and had nothing to do with the discussion at hand, and then everyone started acting like the whole premise of TWSAIS being 1-A (Which had nothing to do with Yggdrasil by that point, mind you) was already debunked, when that frankly wasn't the case whatsoever, ignoring that both Paradox and Kep had written giant posts summarizing it, which apparently remained unanswered, of course, outside of Matt attacking the quality of the arguments themselves while presumably not even knowing what they consisted of. No offense intended, btw.

The rest seemed to be just people taking the opportunity to start appealing to "whoa, we're tired" mentality, while again refusing to address any points that weren't already dropped.

I am honestly quite baffled at people wanting to close this thread now, especially given the circumstances I mentioned above. Of course, we are two days away from the lockdown of the forums in preparation for the move, so this discussion ought to be paralyzed anyway. But I think people would be way more likely to reach an actual, reasonable compromise if they bothered to actually argue past a certain stage.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

i AM aware of the pro-upgrade arguments. I just think they're dishonest and crappy and I'm not afraid of saying it. No offense intended if hearing that hurts anyone's emotions, tbh.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Then I'd say you are better off directly addressing them, for once (Particularly the bibles which Kep and Paradox wrote, which you kept dodging, it seems), because to be blunt, all you did by posting those scans involving the Black Winter was throwing the whole thread off the rails.

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima has a point in that a more thorough counter-argument would be appreciated. The problem is that PrinceOfTheMorning may have left the wiki, ClassicNESfan finds it too taxing to deal with this, and I am far too overworked. As such, I would greatly appreciate if Matthew could find the time and energy to write another long rebuttal post, so we might be able to get somewhere. Just remember to write and save it in a word processor beforehand.

DarkGrath also has a point that we all need to make an effort to be polite and reasonable, although it is obviously hard after an at least 1600 posts long extremely frustrating neverending argument.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

I'd be willing to compromise in rating Rune King Thor as 2-A via the following method: Defeated Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, who were presumably far more powerful than Odin's Desroyer Armor. But the upgrade would require The Destroyer's At Least 2-C key to be changed to 2-A. The current justification for it is probably fine. I read over the storyline again to check, and I think I'd be fine with upgrading it.

Like many on this thread, I find the long and excessive posts that compromised the majority of the discussion to essentially be verbose rehashings of old arguments that have already been refuted, along with a few additional red herrings that latch on to irrelevant story details that go nowhere or give very generous interpretations to vague concepts. Due to the nature of the interface, internet arguments can last forever if you let them, and this thread has basically devolved into a bunch of filibusters and gish gallops strung together without structure to push an upgrade through. Matthew can write a Bible arguing each individual point from the last novel-long post if he wants to, but I personally see it as a waste of time. The novels themselves were responses to other novel-long posts, and from what I can tell, anything Matthew writes will then in kind be responded to by another novel-long post filled with faulty arguments until one side gets too exhausted with the topic to continue. If neither side is willing to back down, then you eventually need to say enough is enough and come to a conclusion. And I mean that with the utmost respect to everybody involved here. We're a community, and I value all of your opinions, even if I disagree with you on this one topic, but this has extended far past its experation date. We need to wind things down. That's just my two cents. No hate.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that ClassicNESfan makes good points.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Luck100]

I'd be willing to compromise in rating Rune King Thor as 2-A via the following method: Defeated Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, who were presumably far more powerful than Odin's Desroyer Armor. But the upgrade would require The Destroyer's At Least 2-C key to be changed to 2-A. The current justification for it is probably fine. I read over the storyline again to check, and I think I'd be fine with upgrading it.

And ignore yggdrasil statements of reaching higher realms of pantheons ?

How can we upgrade RKT as 2-A if yggdrasil scales above 2-A and RKT transcend such structure ?

But even regular Odin have 2-A feats if you try to upgrade destroyer i wouldn't mind ...

 

[ClassicNESfan]

The simple answer is that I and many other people on this thread do not believe that Yggdrasil has the appropriate feats to scale it to 2-A. Everybody is aware of the points you have brought up, but many of us take a different meaning away from those scans than you do. It has been discussed at length by this point, and that isn't even counting the thread from months ago that looked into possibly upgrading standard Skyfathers to 2-A. The rejection of that interpretation is not a criticism against you personally. You have done nothing wrong by sharing your viewpoint on this thread. That kind of contribution is exactly what we would expect of an active wiki member. It is simply that we have reached an impasse, and neither side seems willing to give an inch to the other. If we don't come together as a team, then Rune King Thor will just remain at his current statistic forever. I'm trying to extend an olive branch by proposing an upgrade for two different profiles that will keep the universe consistent and give both sides a little bit of what they want. Naturally, doing that will necessitate that neither side gets entirely what they want, but sacrifice is sometimes a necessary part of resolution. I'd really appreciate it if a few people could just meet in the middle on this one.

 

[Overlord775]

@Luck

you know, since the forum move is litterally 3 days from now, wouldn't it be better to conclude this, then make a new upgrade thread in the new site ?